Defense Rotation

[MADISONGAVOL]

Can merge later if needed. So I'm watching the game and watching how tired our dline looked from second quarter on and in the fourth quarter our defense tackles literally have no push and are just standing up. So my question is this why are we not rotating players? Or am I off base by saying our s&c program should have starters ready to play 98% of games for 12 games with no drop off. Minus fact we still struggle to play assignment football and miss tackles and poor angles I still believe that last year our starters played too many snaps which aided in meltdown of last two games. And you could see in bowl game how we look when rested. It seems like most other teams sub well more than we do and shoop does not want to play anyone that has not earned his trust and I get that but if they don't play they don't learn I think last year and last night guys should have got more snaps to keep guys fresh....just my opinion....wanted to see what everyone's thoughts are

 

[NO SIR EEE]

I didn't understand the non rotation neither. We have depth, so why not go forward? The defense struggled heavily because of the amount of time on the field obviously, but the offense has to help a little as well. That vanilla play calling almost got us into a hole we couldn't climb out of. I am proud of this defense though for stepping up and stuffing them on the 2 point attempt. Thank god the triple option is gone now, the defense is going to be fine though. Btw, saw you were from Madison, I am as well, small world.

 

[Sarms58]

Is there a site that has detailed game data? I'm looking for snap counts for each player...be very interesting to see...it didn't appear we played too many different linemen but I did see some rotating in/out...

Especially interested in the DTs...those guys were worn out...

 

[Kinger]

Is there a site that has detailed game data? I'm looking for snap counts for each player...be very interesting to see...it didn't appear we player too many different linemen but I did see some rotating in/out...

I would be interested in seeing the snap counts per player also

 

[allvol123]

The playing of the same 4 guys almost the entire game was mind boggling.

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

I didn't understand the non rotation neither. We have depth, so why not go forward? The defense struggled heavily because of the amount of time on the field obviously, but the offense has to help a little as well. That vanilla play calling almost got us into a hole we couldn't climb out of. I am proud of this defense though for stepping up and stuffing them on the 2 point attempt. Thank god the triple option is gone now, the defense is going to be fine though. Btw, saw you were from Madison, I am as well, small world.

Madison ga....love wearing my orange here..lol....im concerned still with our defense if we do not rotate players I believe we will see a big drop off in production and flying to the ball as season wears on....hopefully our lb core in 4-3 Will be bituilli at middle mcdowell and bates at strong and sap at weak

 

[livefaith]

Thanks for the thread. Considered it myself.

During 2nd quarter our front 4 were gassed and GT was running all over us. We trotted out the starters series after series. Kyle Philips and Picou came in a little that I saw, but the starters were in there constantly. Did not see Alexis Johnson until OT.

Same at LB and DB, although each level is affected a bit less. To me, knowing the opponents style, this would have dictated a deep rotation. A 80% effective backup would be better on the field than a 50% exhausted starter IMO. Honestly, I was impressed with out starting 4 to have the energy that they did vs that offensive attack.

My fear is that coaches don't trust these backups enough. Not a good sign for the next 11 if that is the case.

 

[LWSVOL]

people that have been talking about depth just haven't realized the depth is not SEC level depth. The coaching and talent levels on this team are not what many of us believed it was. I believe the lack of talent relates directly to development issues. this staff is extremely poor at developing players.

Picou was banged up most of camp but he was more ready to play than any other DTs..

Positives were we confirmed a few guys could play, 1, 4, 19 and 35.. outside of those three, lot of ????s

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

Thanks for the thread. Considered it myself.

During 2nd quarter our front 4 were gassed and GT was running all over us. We trotted out the starters series after series. Kyle Philips and Picou came in a little that I saw, but the starters were in there constantly. Did not see Alexis Johnson until OT.

Same at LB and DB, although each level is affected a bit less. To me, knowing the opponents style, this would have dictated a deep rotation. A 80% effective backup would be better on the field than a 50% exhausted starter IMO. Honestly, I was impressed with out starting 4 to have the energy that they did vs that offensive attack.

My fear is that coaches don't trust these backups enough. Not a good sign for the next 11 if that is the case.

That's all shoop and his trust factor....its ridiculous if it gets u beat cause they are gassed and there's no way we make it all year before their wiped out

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

people that have been talking about depth just haven't realized the depth is not SEC level depth. The coaching and talent levels on this team are not what many of us believed it was. I believe the lack of talent relates directly to development issues. this staff is extremely poor at developing players.

Picou was banged up most of camp but he was more ready to play than any other DTs..

Positives were we confirmed a few guys could play, 1, 4, 19 and 35.. outside of those three, lot of ????s

So even new staff cant develop players....so that's two staffs that can't? Maybe it's poor evaluation on some of these guys? Or are you saying previous staff did terrible job and it's going to take more than a year to fix....coaching and recruiting? Year five this is ridiculous LWS.......

 

[MiramarVol]

Can merge later if needed. So I'm watching the game and watching how tired our dline looked from second quarter on and in the fourth quarter our defense tackles literally have no push and are just standing up. So my question is this why are we not rotating players? Or am I off base by saying our s&c program should have starters ready to play 98% of games for 12 games with no drop off. Minus fact we still struggle to play assignment football and miss tackles and poor angles I still believe that last year our starters played too many snaps which aided in meltdown of last two games. And you could see in bowl game how we look when rested. It seems like most other teams sub well more than we do and shoop does not want to play anyone that has not earned his trust and I get that but if they don't play they don't learn I think last year and last night guys should have got more snaps to keep guys fresh....just my opinion....wanted to see what everyone's thoughts are

The defense was on the field for 41 minutes. 21 minutes in the 1st half and 20 in the 2nd. They were tired, period. SC got them through the game. The Gaulden strip saved the game, cause GT was on their way to another score and the defense was pretty much done at that point. 41 minutes is a long time for any defense to be on the f

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

The defense was on the field for 41 minutes. 21 minutes in the 1st half and 20 in the 2nd. They were tired, period. SC got them through the game. The Gaulden strip saved the game, cause GT was on their way to another score and the defense was pretty much done at that point. 41 minutes is a long time for any defense to be on the f

I agree ....so you believe lack of execution was problem.....im with LWS maybe fact is we are not deep and maybe our staff isn't even sold on starters due to poor development which sucks cause in year five there are no excuses for that. That means Jones waited way too long to make changes. Curious to see how everyone feels about this staff....if they can truly stsrt developing these players way there suppose to. To reach championship level

 

[EZE]

I didn't understand the non rotation neither. We have depth, so why not go forward? The defense struggled heavily because of the amount of time on the field obviously, but the offense has to help a little as well. That vanilla play calling almost got us into a hole we couldn't climb out of. I am proud of this defense though for stepping up and stuffing them on the 2 point attempt. Thank god the triple option is gone now, the defense is going to be fine though. Btw, saw you were from Madison, I am as well, small world.

It wasn't "vanilla" play calling. We threw it too much early in the game IMO.

The problem was execution in the passing game. The QB struggled mightily early, and when he finally did deliver the ball, the WRs wouldn't catch it. Also, because the QB was rattled, he was checking down and throwing short of the sticks on long third downs. And, the WRs were running terrible routes short of the sticks.

I do think the last drive before the end of the first half was questionable. Play calls were too conservative.

 

[shocka2430]

We could have used some more rotation on the D line for sure. I think what really hurt us, and I'm not a coach so jmo, if you noticed our d line was not playing right up on the ball. I assume this was to negate all the cut blocks, but we were giving them a yard or yard and a half gap every time they lined up. Then our line was allowing the o-line to get moving and come at them. I think if we would have lined up right on them and bull rushed every time the ball was snapped, they wouldn't have got as many yards as they did. We had no push to throw off the timing behind the line.

I truly believe it was to prevent being cut, but I still think it was a bad choice to do that. Pushing a tackle back into the ball carrier or in front of the qb on the option would have helped a lot more then the lets just not get put on the ground approach.

 

[Roustabout]

I've been screaming roster management as Butch's biggest weakness.

Piccou and Johnson as well as Bain should have been getting reps at DT early in the game. It was a bad scheme, with few adjustments and tired ass players. Bad combo.

 

[LWSVOL]

So even new staff cant develop players....so that's two staffs that can't? Maybe it's poor evaluation on some of these guys? Or are you saying previous staff did terrible job and it's going to take more than a year to fix....coaching and recruiting? Year five this is ridiculous LWS.......

I don't buy poor evaluations. We have a lot of 4/5 stars. Recruiting services are not missing on most of our guys and hitting on everyone else's. So that only leaves development as they issue.

I don't know if these new guys on defense are better at development or not. Last night I did not see much improvements if any. Hoke didn't improve 99 and 1 very much yet.

Was not very impressed with offensive play calling either but it was Scott's first game.. Florida will be his big test.

 

[LWSVOL]

It wasn't "vanilla" play calling. We threw it too much early in the game IMO.

The problem was execution in the passing game. The QB struggled mightily early, and when he finally did deliver the ball, the WRs wouldn't catch it. Also, because the QB was rattled, he was checking down and throwing short of the sticks on long third downs. And, the WRs were running terrible routes short of the sticks.

I do think the last drive before the end of the first half was questionable. Play calls were too conservative.

agree. He waited too long to give the ball to # 4 consistently.

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

I've been screaming roster management as Butch's biggest weakness.

Piccou and Johnson as well as Bain should have been getting reps at DT early in the game. It was a bad scheme, with few adjustments and tired ass players. Bad combo.

I agree I mean pick the better times to sub each player I would still think Johnson playing good but not great is better than McKenzie gassed not doing much of nothing

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

agree. He waited too long to give the ball to # 4 consistently.

I was yelling run the freaking ball all night they had no answer and frankly our oline needed to find their rhythm and impose their physicality.

 

[LWSVOL]

I agree I mean pick the better times to sub each player I would still think Johnson playing good but not great is better than McKenzie gassed not doing much of nothing

I haven't heard this so I'm just speculating. But if Johnson couldn't get into the game in the first half last night I question how good he is. Maybe he is just another Juco bust..

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

I haven't heard this so I'm just speculating. But if Johnson couldn't get into the game in the first half last night I question how good he is. Maybe he is just another Juco bust..

We've have far more bust than ones that work out. So basically we have three dt. For all year....in year five just amazing....thst difference with ok to good programs and elite ones like alabama....ohio state....etc

 

[VOLED]

people that have been talking about depth just haven't realized the depth is not SEC level depth. The coaching and talent levels on this team are not what many of us believed it was. I believe the lack of talent relates directly to development issues. this staff is extremely poor at developing players.

Picou was banged up most of camp but he was more ready to play than any other DTs..

Positives were we confirmed a few guys could play, 1, 4, 19 and 35.. outside of those three, lot of ????s

I mentioned the same 4 players. Really the only 4 that are upper level talent (IDK about the OL), at least per the game last night. Really disappointed in a couple of the D line starters and at least 1 of the DB starters.

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

So volquest stated butch said in his presser that shoop has to play alot more personnel moving forward thst the defense can't sustain those snaps. Taylor ran 5000 yards according to GPS during the game and 96 snaps and several others are were very close. Said basically shoop doesn't trust certain players but thst certain players had to also earn it in practice. He noted that kivon Bennett deandre johnson othere will be leaned on to co contribute. Sounds lime their not impressed with Alexis Johnson or piccou but will play them purely out of necessity going forward.

 

[MiramarVol]

I agree ....so you believe lack of execution was problem.....im with LWS maybe fact is we are not deep and maybe our staff isn't even sold on starters due to poor development which sucks cause in year five there are no excuses for that. That means Jones waited way too long to make changes. Curious to see how everyone feels about this staff....if they can truly stsrt developing these players way there suppose to. To reach championship level

We have depth (bodies) but not quality SEC depth (dependable). So yes, I agree with LWS, but we need to take the wait and see approach with this staff. They have had the Spring, meaning about one month or so, and Fall camp to DEVELOP. The Summer is hands off and S&C time. It's going to take some time to get coached up. I feel the new coaches are doing all they can, but the old staff failed miserably with development. Look at Jumper being our starting MLB. Not necessarily a knock per se, but he's a former Walk-on. Pointing to all the LB's we've supposedly recruited, signed, and gave scholarships to. Phillips, even though he's been injured a lot, hasn't really show much, even in the game Monday, I only recall 1 tackle. The DB's have depth, but the readiness is shaky; only Moseley, Gaulden, and Martin played at Corner that I recall. That leaves a lot of CB's that didn't see the field Buchanan, Osborne, LaBruzza, Shamburger, Henderson, and Bailey.

 

[MADISONGAVOL]

I'm with you on sec depth.....my problem is we are in year five we should not have so many issues on defense it's horrible. That's why I'm cautious about how we are going to beat uf and uga....uga has more talented depth and he's had one recruiting class.uf well just don't know about them. I truly hope these kids st art developing before our eyes I want butch and coaches to fix this not sure why he kept coaches so long....also looking for more explosive players lime Taylor a d dline that mails people instead of getting blown off ball