Defense Rankings (Out of 130 in FBS)

[livefaith]

$14.99 S, M, L, XL $18.99 XXL & XXXL ... and just when I finally got some rest after days of talking folks off the ledge because CJH didn't win SEC Coach of the Year! You can't make this stuff up!

 

[Adam Sandler]

I just wonder why we (not just you), that is to say many of us, are so up in arms over our weak defensive play? As I remember from the very start of speculation after the 2020 season, we knew our defensive was going to be weak. Why piss and moan now that our appraisal was/came true.

Well for me personally, I’ve always been of the mindset that I’d rather have a great defense than a great offense. I think the game is gradually slanting towards favoring offense, so putting a top notch defense on the field is all the more impressive and imperative IMO. At the end of the day though, I just like discussing my Vols, and am surrounded by too many spoiled uga fans to discuss with here in Georgia. Didn’t think I was pissing and moaning.

 

[Adam Sandler]

There are 3 types of lies in this world: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

Just throw all those D stats out the window, as they're virtually meaningless in CJH's gameplan.

Why? Time of possession (TOP). Because our offense is so quick and efficient, we don't hold onto the ball very long at all. In fact we were ranked #130 out of 130 teams in TOP with an average of 24:24 per game. This means opposing teams have the ball an average of 35:36 per game to run up offensive numbers.

During the course of the entire season, our offense was on the field for 5 hours 18 minutes and 24 seconds, while our defense was on the field for 7 hours 41 minutes and 36 seconds. I repeat - our defense was on the field nearly 2 1/2 HOURS longer than our offense.

Thus, it should be no surprise whatsoever that our defense STATISTICALLY speaking, appears to be a hot piece of flaming garbage.

Yet, we were just a few plays from beating Pitt, Ole Miss and Perdue which woulda/coulda/shoulda put us at 10-3.

Can our D get better? Absolutely. But we need more talent and numbers at LB and the secondary. Regardless, the numbers will always tell another story, whether we actually win, lose or draw.

Really good perspective. Makes sense about total numbers.
But also, that doesn’t make the argument for the lack of turnovers created. What I do buy there is that we just don’t have the horses yet to make enough of those plays. And that’s one of my areas I’d love to see improvement at.

 

[Adam Sandler]

So much recency bias

Remember when we were worried about Banks getting hired away because of how well he was doing with our defense?

He made us about as good as we were going to get with what we have. The bowl game was by far the worst and that's why we are all so up and arms about it.

Look we held Ole Miss to 31 points and some of those points came after a Velus fumble

Bama only had 24 at the beginning of the fourth

Mizzou and USC jr only got garbage points against us

We still got stops, but we couldn't overcome our depth issues and the inflated time our defense was on the field because of our offense.

We get better players and we will see significant improvement. And we are already doing that. And a lot of guys are coming back and yes, they will probably be better.

It's just not something to be gravely concerned with. We weren't helpless out there all year.

I would agree with this. I actually wasn’t too concerned until I heard enough clamoring about it and decided to dive into the numbers myself. I like the scheme. I like the aggression. And I was pleased more than I thought I would be this season. It kills me thinking though that if the defense had been able to creat a couple turnovers or get off the field without giving up a touchdown a few times that this team would be 10-3, which is astonishing.

 

[Adam Sandler]

Defensive yardage stats are meaningless in our system.. We have a much higher # of possessions than average, therefore our defense plays a much larger # of plays than average. Defensive efficiency is much more important than yardage rankings.

In defensive efficiency, ESPN has us ranked #44 out of 130, which is spectacular given the situation Tim Banks inherited. We had virtually no LBs, not enough DL (though we did a good job getting DL from the portal), and we were also a bit thin at secondary. There were obviously some weak points (3rd down defense in particular), but given what we started with, that's an amazing performance by the D.

Love that stat, thanks for sharing

 

[Adam Sandler]

Lord have mercy...

HOW MANY TIMES DOES THIS NEED TO BE EXPLAINED..?
HOW MANY??????

WHY CAN'T SOME OF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ALL SIDES OF THE BALL ARE CONNECTED????!!!

You can't just look at rankings and say "that's what they are"

Tell me how many offensive opportunities (possessions) did the opposing team have against us PER game in 2021 vs 2019.

2019 was when when had that supposed stout defense. Right? But they weren't at first were they??

GA state put 38 points on them?
What happened on offense midway through that season? What happened to our QBs and offensive TOP during our "win-streak " in 2019?

In 2019, our offense mid season began to keep the ball longer and score more often. The defense was on the field less and got playmakers back.

Look at UCFs defense 2019- 2020
Now look at the Vols 2021
Observe you rankings again.
Odd similarities you'll find.
You'll find MORE opposing team offensive possessions avg per game than most teams.

While our offense scores more points per game, they also either scores very quickly or did nothing with the ball very quickly = the defense playing MORE SNAPS than the average. More chances for the opposing team to score means MORE POINTS AND YARDAGE given up.

Maybe i should spend more time on here so as to not bore y’all with the same discussion you’ve been a part of before. My apologies.

 

[Adam Sandler]

Rankings by game should be obsolete. Per possession is a better metric now, and probably always has been.

Would love to see those statistics

 

[Adam Sandler]

Anybody concerned about Banks should look at his defense efficiency at Penn State and Illinois. Improvement is his model. Illinois improvement was dramatic, rank went from over 100 to 30s. Penn state at 10 his last year.

Very encouraging, thank you

 

[WiseOlVol]

99th in Total Defense
59th in Rushing Defense
122nd in Passing Defense
117th First Down Defense
103rd 3rd Down Defense
120th in Red Zone Defense
52nd in Tackles for Loss
Tied for 67th** for Turnovers (a lot of ties here)

Numbers say it all. Knew this defense would give up some yards, but hoped they’d make up for it in turnovers and critical down defense. Hasn’t happened.

If you’re going to give up yards, you have to get off the field. Bend but don’t break. Create negative plays on 1st down and get off the field by creating and taking advantage of opportunities. Create turnovers to lessen the time on the field, which is a lot when you have the fastest offense in the country.

Not an argument for Pruitt, he had to go, but this team was top 25 in defense and terrible on offense. Now the teams great on offense and fun to watch, but terrible on defense, and haven’t found adequate replacements for the pieces that left in the portal. I actually like coach Banks and the aggression the defense sometimes plays with. Hope he can get this team to improve. I do have concerns though. Recruiting dropped off a bit from Pruitt. Seems not enough attention was paid to defensive needs/depth as well, while missing on plenty of guys we were in final top whatever’s for.

2022 will be pivotal for the defense. Have to address defensive back and linebacker deficiencies through the portal in the off season, and do so successfully. 2023 recruiting class needs to be a homerun. If Heupel has 3-4 years to make this a sec champ contender, defensive improvement this year and next is what has to happen for that to be possible.

EDIT: Please let it be noted that it wasn’t until I dove into the numbers and started thinking about 10-3 that I became concerned with the defense. I actually like the scheme, the coach, and the energy.

Additionally, my post lacks insight to the fact that our defense statistically spends much more time on the field due to the style of offense we run and that maybe overall defense numbers should be expected to not be great. That said, it is not an excuse for lack of turnovers. Lack of talent may be a good excuse for that, which I did mention in the original post.

Also, apologies to those who are tired of this discussion. This thread is not for you. Get back to your day and stop being irritated by open discussion on a free forum.

We scored enough to win 10 games. Worst D Tennessee ever put on the field.

 

[WiseOlVol]

99th in Total Defense
59th in Rushing Defense
122nd in Passing Defense
117th First Down Defense
103rd 3rd Down Defense
120th in Red Zone Defense
52nd in Tackles for Loss
Tied for 67th** for Turnovers (a lot of ties here)

Numbers say it all. Knew this defense would give up some yards, but hoped they’d make up for it in turnovers and critical down defense. Hasn’t happened.

If you’re going to give up yards, you have to get off the field. Bend but don’t break. Create negative plays on 1st down and get off the field by creating and taking advantage of opportunities. Create turnovers to lessen the time on the field, which is a lot when you have the fastest offense in the country.

Not an argument for Pruitt, he had to go, but this team was top 25 in defense and terrible on offense. Now the teams great on offense and fun to watch, but terrible on defense, and haven’t found adequate replacements for the pieces that left in the portal. I actually like coach Banks and the aggression the defense sometimes plays with. Hope he can get this team to improve. I do have concerns though. Recruiting dropped off a bit from Pruitt. Seems not enough attention was paid to defensive needs/depth as well, while missing on plenty of guys we were in final top whatever’s for.

2022 will be pivotal for the defense. Have to address defensive back and linebacker deficiencies through the portal in the off season, and do so successfully. 2023 recruiting class needs to be a homerun. If Heupel has 3-4 years to make this a sec champ contender, defensive improvement this year and next is what has to happen for that to be possible.

EDIT: Please let it be noted that it wasn’t until I dove into the numbers and started thinking about 10-3 that I became concerned with the defense. I actually like the scheme, the coach, and the energy.

Additionally, my post lacks insight to the fact that our defense statistically spends much more time on the field due to the style of offense we run and that maybe overall defense numbers should be expected to not be great. That said, it is not an excuse for lack of turnovers. Lack of talent may be a good excuse for that, which I did mention in the original post.

Also, apologies to those who are tired of this discussion. This thread is not for you. Get back to your day and stop being irritated by open discussion on a free forum.

Not about coaching. We had 1 elite player on D. ONE!

 

[JT3]

Gotta let Banks and the defensive staff build depth and recruit guys to fit this system before you can effectively judge them. We all knew the defense wasn't good going into the season and I believe they outplayed expectations.

We lost like 10 guys who started at other programs this season on defense. I'm not sure why it's a shock that our defensive rankings are poor. What were the expectations?

 

[Special Ed]

Actually, it originally came from Benjamin Disraeli

But most folks attribute it to Mark Twain since hardly anyone knows who Disraeli was nowadays.

 

[TNinSC]

Help is on the way!

-Jordan Phillips, a big 6'2, 300lb Defensive Lineman with 15 Power 5 school offers already enrolled

-Four Star Defensive Lineman Tyre West signed to come play.

-TWO Four Star Edge Rushers in James Pearce and Joshua Josephs signed to come play

-TWO HUGE Linebackers signed to come give this defense a big BOOST: 6'3 230 lb Elijah Herring and 6'4, 215lb Kalib Perry

-Our secondary is getting some help too with the signings of NFL legend Rodney Harrison's son, Christian Harrison and Jourdan Thomas

 

[zooguy]

The offensive scheme is the issue. When you go quick, you keep the defense on the field too long. Unless you are Alabama and can rotate a 2nd string in with no real drop off, your defense will struggle because they get tired. Plus, if you go 3 and out - defense right back on the field.

Going with tempo the entire game has really never worked for national title contenders so far. Going with tempo occasionally during a game has.

It’s the Jimmie’s and Joes AND the X’s and O’s.

Tempo used judiciously is not a bad thing; tempo used all the time is not the way to go when you don’t have enough depth in my opinion.

 

[LAVol1]

If you have an offense that’s scoring quickly and often, your defense will have pressure put on it. I’m not saying we were fantastic by any stretch of the imagination but people thinking Pruitt’s defense would’ve been better are delusional

In the MCB, I heard for the first time that the OL coach would urge Heupel to "end it", telling him to score or kick on the next couple of plays because the OL was getting too tired. I thought the idea of the up-tempo was to wear down the D. Didn't think about the toll on the OL. If we can get more OL depth, we should be even more effective offensively.

 

[LittleVol]

The offensive scheme is the issue. When you go quick, you keep the defense on the field too long. Unless you are Alabama and can rotate a 2nd string in with no real drop off, your defense will struggle because they get tired. Plus, if you go 3 and our - defense right back on the field.

Going with tempo the entire game has really never worked for national title contenders so far. Going with tempo occasionally had.

It’s the Jimmie’s and Joes AND the X’s and O’s.

Tempo used judiciously is not a bad thing; tempo used all the time is not the way to go when you don’t have enough depth in my opinion.

Exactly.
Not sure why Heupel doesn't see this.

His mismanagement under 2 minutes is another symptom of his oversight issue.

Why he runs a 195 lbs RB on 4 and goal fron the 1 when you have a 230 lbs RB/LB in Whitehead is another.
Same bad call against Pittsburgh.

Bad calls and everything it still should have been a 9 win season.

Purdue and Pittsburgh I put squarely on his shoulders. Purdue shouldn't have been within 14 points of us under 2 mins...

Still, you have to like the offense and what you saw. He just needs to learn to build on it by creating different tempo sets and personnel groupings. And for goodness sakes STOP the "blowing his load " mentality !