Danny White proposes collective bargaining agreement for college football

[adam.vol]

A good counterpoint brought up in this article is: "Why would players bargain for a worse deal? They have many universities pining for their services." I am not sure a deal like this is possible after reading the article. I will admit that I don't know much about this topic, but I thought it was an interesting point.

That’s what I am thinking, too.

This unionization idea sounds like another attempt by those who are currently in control to systematically rob those who are looking to get in. It is a terrible deal for those players who are talented enough to increase revenue for the sport as a whole. It really only benefits the coaches and administrations in a very socialist way, as they can protect their current multi-million dollar salaries.

Why are players expected to let other players negotiate their terms while coaches and AD’s do not have to do the same?

Shouldn’t Steve Sarkisian and Kirby Smart be limited by the amount of money we think Sam Pitman and Clark Lea are worth? Kalen Deboer is a new coach in the SEC, he and his staff shouldn’t be allowed to make as much money as Shane Beamer’s staff, who’s been here for years (That’s how the NFL’s CBA works for the players and that will be how it will go for the NCAA players.

How about athletic directors? Does Danny white want his pay to be limited by how much Candice Lee is worth to Vanderbilt?

Why shouldn’t those making the rules subject themselves to the same set of rules?

Everyone in power wants to be an oligarch, it seems.

 

[Behr]

Don't know. I just don't know.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

What White has done for UT athletics is amazing. By FAR the best AD in my 48 years of fandom. Football has won 30 games in 3 years for the 1st time since Fulmer was coach in the late 90s. Baseball just won a national championship. Basketball makes the sweet16 every year now. Softball has been great too. Now womens basketball has the best coach since Pat and just landed a top 2 recruiting class with 3 or 4 HS All Americans...in the same class. We have the winningest athletics program in the SEC and revenue is through the roof.

Danny White has been a grand slam hire if there ever was one. Our athletics are best in the SEC right now because he has made great hires across the board. I dont have a complete understanding of that flowchart above without more details, but it makes sense to me logically and would put an end to this "wild west" anything goes insanity we have now. Its simply unsustainable. Salary cap is coming one way or another.

Danny White is definitely the best hire UT has made in a generation. Donde and Boyd deserve a big tip of the cap for bringing him in when they did and giving him a lot of support.

As for his athletics idea, it's pro ball. Union, collective bargaining..... c'mon, it's a pro model all the way.

Keeping college anywhere in the picture when the player's union wants to negotiate class attendance to optional will be a problem eventually. Keeping salaries down is always an issue in pro sports vs the player's union. Keeping NIL at bay, even with a salary cap, seems to be a union vs schools (who would be arguing against their own recruiting tool) battle that's hard to figure.

As a pro league the two sides can work things out without too much Antitrust interference, it seems, but I'm not sure how pretty they can make this pig in the end.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Danny is just saying out loud what most everyone is already thinking. Players currently hold all the cards and are free to screw over their current schools if they decide to leave at any time.

Making them contracted employees is the only way to hold them to an agreement.

 

[Volador]

Good luck convincing the Supreme Court with that argument. Already been litigated and it ain’t going back. Not that I like the way this has been handled but there’s nothing we are going to do about it. We either get used to it or find other things to do with our money. (I’m already doing some of that.)

Hey, a man has the right to dream, right????!!

 

[Volador]

Thanks for deciding what someone's work is worth.

I've no idea what you do but you should make no more than $3000 / month.

End the misery. End of story.

Pont of the story, if one were to get past the epidermal layer, is that I'd like to see parity in the NIL universe. QBs and RBs wouldn't be nuttin' without the hosses on the front line, so make the distribution even and equal.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Pont of the story, if one were to get past the epidermal layer, is that I'd like to see parity in the NIL universe. QBs and RBs wouldn't be nuttin' without the hosses on the front line, so make the distribution even and equal.

Yeah, like every other business or pro athletics. No one in a business has talents that are worth more than anyone else.

Your thoughts are noted, comrade.

 

[ftsandersvol]

The good ol' days.

 

[IndianaVol]

Danny White keeps showing his intelligence level...smart, very smart, to get out ahead of what every one knows is coming and be able to have some control over your own destiny early.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The good ol' days.
View attachment 752088

Absolutely. No one got offered money in the old days. Assuming the old days are before 1960 when Namath played.

is

 

[Fan4TN]

IMO, it's all about the ability to enforce contracts, which protects both sides and ensures the long term viability of the sport. Most stories over the past few years have been about players bailing on contracts (Nico etc.), with little or no legal ramifications. One day it could be the other way around, I.E. schools signing up players, then bailing on them last second (which has happened some, but not as often as the other way around). I think we need enforceable contracts for both sides.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Absolutely. No one got offered money in the old days. Assuming the old days are before 1960 when Namath played.

is

Any sport that can compel fans to drive five hours, late into the evening ... sneak onto the enemy's campus ... find and subdue a 225-pound billy goat with some pretty scary-looking horns ... figure out a way to lift that goat into the bed of the truck (or back of the van, not kidding it happened at least once) ... drive another 5+ hours back to some remote hideout ... then babysit that eating, pooping, stinking goat for a week or longer until the rivalry game ends ... all the while knowing hefty punishment comes with getting caught ...

... well, that sport is definitely going to encourage other, more financially well-off fans to share some dollar bills with highly-regarded high school kids who are considering the university.

And the goat thing has been going on for at least three-quarters of a century. Bet the money thing started even before then.

Go Vols! Go Army! Beat Navy!

 

[DaddyChad]

Unsurprising. Moving toward a professional relationship is what the business needs to grow revenue. And White has always been unabashedly and unapolegetically about the money. There is nothing he won't do for that next dollar. Hotels that tower over the stadium, "talent fees," and so on. If anyone thinks he's going to stop pushing the line, well, you're in for a rude surprise.

Some on this board - and elsewhere - love that mindset and think it's the right way to operate.

Right or wrong it’s where every major program will end up

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

On top of their $$$$$$$$$$ $cholarships, all players should receive $500/month, regardless if their image is good or ugly.

End the misery. End of story.

That's not close to fair market value for FBS athletes. It will never get past the Sherman Antitrust Act.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Any sport that can compel fans to drive five hours, late into the evening ... sneak onto the enemy's campus ... find and subdue a 225-pound billy goat with some pretty scary-looking horns ... figure out a way to lift that goat into the bed of the truck (or back of the van, not kidding it happened at least once) ... drive another 5+ hours back to some remote hideout ... then babysit that eating, pooping, stinking goat for a week or longer until the rivalry game ends ... all the while knowing hefty punishment comes with getting caught ...

... well, that sport is definitely going to encourage other, more financially well-off fans to share some dollar bills with highly-regarded high school kids who are considering the university.

And the goat thing has been going on for at least three-quarters of a century. Bet the money thing started even before then.

Go Vols! Go Army! Beat Navy!

I have it straight from the fingers of several here at VN who insist that money never changed hands in college athletics before Jeremy Pruitt single handedly thought it up and started it.

Suh, our Honor cannot be questioned. Until that rapscallion Bama vermin coached in Knoxville, we were as pure as angels.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I have it straight from the fingers of several here at VN who insist that money never changed hands in college athletics before Jeremy Pruitt single handedly thought it up and started it.

Suh, our Honor cannot be questioned. Until that rapscallion Bama vermin coached in Knoxville, we were as pure as angels.

Yeah, of course WE were.

We're talking about all the other guys. Those other teams' fellas.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

The good ol' days.
View attachment 752088

And not close to fair market value. Fortunately gone and not coming back.

 

[a vol n tears]

It's the only intelligent way to operate a multimillion dollar athletic business in a multibillion dollar industry.

I wish they’d just quite beating around the bush on what matters. Academics or sports. Just separate them. Colleges existed as learning institutions long before athletics were ever involved. Plenty of philanthropy money will go to higher learning. Tuition costs will drop. And then the athletic teams can lease facilities ( and even use the name) from the school, for a price. Which leads to lower tuition.
Believe me, if these kids weren’t connected to the school, they would quickly learn they are just another minor league team who pays little and uses buses to travel. The players only hold the cards because of the fans connection to the school. Separate that and they are minor league.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I wish they’d just quite beating around the bush on what matters. Academics or sports. Just separate them. Colleges existed as learning institutions long before athletics were ever involved. Plenty of philanthropy money will go to higher learning. Tuition costs will drop. And then the athletic teams can lease facilities ( and even use the name) from the school, for a price. Which leads to lower tuition.
Believe me, if these kids weren’t connected to the school, they would quickly learn they are just another minor league team who pays little and uses buses to travel. The players only hold the cards because of the fans connection to the school. Separate that and they are minor league.

I've been saying they should separate for some time. There's no reason for a university to run a multimillion dollar athletic program. Never has been EXCEPT for the rabid fan support.

Unlike you, I could care less if the players are students or had a connection to the school, they're Vols, they're in Orange. If the school leases the logo and facilities, great.

What makes you so attached to them being students? Isn't that just sour grapes? Do you think these athletes have been normal college students for the last few decades?

I don't get what your issue is.

 

[Voltopia]

I've been saying they should separate for some time. There's no reason for a university to run a multimillion dollar athletic program. Never has been EXCEPT for the rabid fan support.

Unlike you, I could care less if the players are students or had a connection to the school, they're Vols, they're in Orange. If the school leases the logo and facilities, great.

What makes you so attached to them being students? Isn't that just sour grapes? Do you think these athletes have been normal college students for the last few decades?

I don't get what your issue is.

To the first point, the reason was and is pride. It's always pride. The pride of being "the best." The pride of being the winners. At the end of the day, the reason the schools have become so money-obsessed is their pride - and pursuing the money they need to satisfy that pride.

As for the second part, there is something inherently different to supporting students who chose to attend your local community's school, versus supporting employees who are only there to do a job. They are distinct situations. A college is part of a town's community. They are effectively permanent fixtures there. It's a group of people bonded by shared experiences. If the athletes aren't part of that school, aren't part of those communities, then what is the point in any of it? Why does it matter if one school's rentals beat another school's rentals? What's any of it for?

And I get it, plenty of people want it to be commercial. "None of that dumb school crap matters." Sure. Okay. But if it doesn't matter for the "employees" playing the game, then why the hell should it matter to anyone else either? The rah rah, the school alma mater, homecoming, seniors running through the T, "Here's to old Tennessee," I suppose it's just all stupid sentimental nonsense now.

I know this is where folks like you and I butt heads, and that's fine. I'm still in the same place you are, though I am fine with going further. Sever the programs. Remove them. If being student athletes, and having connections to the school communities no longer matters, then go all the way. No half measures. Own it. No more students. Players in their thirties. No eligibility limits. Go all the way!

But license the names? Just seems silly. It won't mean much of anything anyway. Just a label. But then, maybe it always was just a label.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

To the first point, the reason was and is pride. It's always pride. The pride of being "the best." The pride of being the winners. At the end of the day, the reason the schools have become so money-obsessed is their pride - and pursuing the money they need to satisfy that pride.

As for the second part, there is something inherently different to supporting students who chose to attend your local community's school, versus supporting employees who are only there to do a job. They are distinct situations. A college is part of a town's community. They are effectively permanent fixtures there. It's a group of people bonded by shared experiences. If the athletes aren't part of that school, aren't part of those communities, then what is the point in any of it? Why does it matter if one school's rentals beat another school's rentals? What's any of it for?

And I get it, plenty of people want it to be commercial. "None of that dumb school crap matters." Sure. Okay. But if it doesn't matter for the "employees" playing the game, then why the hell should it matter to anyone else either? The rah rah, the school alma mater, homecoming, seniors running through the T, "Here's to old Tennessee," I suppose it's just all stupid sentimental nonsense now.

I know this is where folks like you and I butt heads, and that's fine. I'm still in the same place you are, though I am fine with going further. Sever the programs. Remove them. If being student athletes, and having connections to the school communities no longer matters, then go all the way. No half measures. Own it. No more students. Players in their thirties. No eligibility limits. Go all the way!

But license the names? Just seems silly. It won't mean much of anything anyway. Just a label. But then, maybe it always was just a label.

I'm just realistic that many of our VFLs came to UT for something other than school or community. They came to play ball, not be your reason to be proud of the school..... to play ball. They were not treated like regular students, having tutors and tons of help and missing classes in the season. Their emphasis, what some were PAID to do was be athletes first with your favorite school's logo on their uniform.

IMO there's little difference between that and today's hired guns. I'm not saying they weren't supported by fans and all that but I am saying many would've been fine playing elsewhere. The transfer portal popularity shows the evidence. As soon as they could easily transfer, a lot of players transferred during their college days.

You're welcome to create some kind of mythology of "they were VFLs because they wanted to be" but the portal reality is there. Some DID grow up and want to play at UT but many of our best athletes were at UT for their career enhancement, the money under the table, etc and would've been happy to leave for more money then if they'd been able to leave.

Loyalty was created by the NCAA. It's obvious. It's been about the money and about what the school could offer for a long time.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I wish they’d just quite beating around the bush on what matters. Academics or sports. Just separate them. Colleges existed as learning institutions long before athletics were ever involved. Plenty of philanthropy money will go to higher learning. Tuition costs will drop. And then the athletic teams can lease facilities ( and even use the name) from the school, for a price. Which leads to lower tuition.
Believe me, if these kids weren’t connected to the school, they would quickly learn they are just another minor league team who pays little and uses buses to travel. The players only hold the cards because of the fans connection to the school. Separate that and they are minor league.

Never going to happen. The schools make far more money from running sports programs - especially FB - than they would under your proposal.

 

[fossilfiction]

A good counterpoint brought up in this article is: "Why would players bargain for a worse deal? They have many universities pining for their services." I am not sure a deal like this is possible after reading the article. I will admit that I don't know much about this topic, but I thought it was an interesting point.

I think the volume of players that would favor this are greater. There are a lot of players in multiple sports not making much if anything at all. This would be great balance. Now if I am making 2 million per year as QB, I am likely thinking this is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I think the volume of players that would favor this are greater. There are a lot of players in multiple sports not making much if anything at all. This would be great balance. Now if I am making 2 million per year as QB, I am likely thinking this is a tough pill to swallow.

Collective bargaining agreements in sports haven't kept skilled positions from making big money. They're not going communist on us where each player gets XXX but establishing guardrails, salary caps, probably rookie/freshman contract minimums, etc.

Guys with $2M skills ARE going to get paid much more than guys that are bit players because of competition in the marketplace. One way or another. I can see some bag men walking on campuses now screaming "We're baaaaaack!"

 

[a vol n tears]

To the first point, the reason was and is pride. It's always pride. The pride of being "the best." The pride of being the winners. At the end of the day, the reason the schools have become so money-obsessed is their pride - and pursuing the money they need to satisfy that pride.

As for the second part, there is something inherently different to supporting students who chose to attend your local community's school, versus supporting employees who are only there to do a job. They are distinct situations. A college is part of a town's community. They are effectively permanent fixtures there. It's a group of people bonded by shared experiences. If the athletes aren't part of that school, aren't part of those communities, then what is the point in any of it? Why does it matter if one school's rentals beat another school's rentals? What's any of it for?

And I get it, plenty of people want it to be commercial. "None of that dumb school crap matters." Sure. Okay. But if it doesn't matter for the "employees" playing the game, then why the hell should it matter to anyone else either? The rah rah, the school alma mater, homecoming, seniors running through the T, "Here's to old Tennessee," I suppose it's just all stupid sentimental nonsense now.

I know this is where folks like you and I butt heads, and that's fine. I'm still in the same place you are, though I am fine with going further. Sever the programs. Remove them. If being student athletes, and having connections to the school communities no longer matters, then go all the way. No half measures. Own it. No more students. Players in their thirties. No eligibility limits. Go all the way!

But license the names? Just seems silly. It won't mean much of anything anyway. Just a label. But then, maybe it always was just a label.

You did a good job explaining what I was trying to say in my post above.