Daniel Helm and Recruiting

[IndianaVolunteer]

If anyone remembers, Daniel Helm was a 4 Star TE and top 5 position group in his class. Shortly after arriving on campus, he transferred out of nowhere claiming CBJ was too aggressive and cursed too much in practice.

I know, I know it’s football. This isn’t the drama club and expectations are always high at rocky top. I called him “soft” at the time but even that is becoming questionable now.

Following up on that, I did some looking back on our ‘14 and ‘15 recruiting classes and they look damn good on paper. Derrell Scott, Dwayne Hendrix, etc

How can Saban recruit better and still have 4 and 5 stars waiting their turn but butch can’t? You can say, NC’s, exposure, whatever. Most kids that young want to play on the field above all.

Ask Blake Barnett, Alvin Kamara, and many other 4/5 stars from Bama. This thread isn’t meant to talk about Saban so much, more as again, what is going on in practices? What is butch saying to these kids before they are on campus versus after?

This attrition is unheard of and I’m surprised former recruits have spoken out more on their brief time here.

 

[sjt18]

There are people who STILL assume that it is all on the players and if they leave because of the way a coach treats them then they just need to toughen up.

In light of Antoine's comments... I think it is a pretty safe bet that Jones crosses the line too often.

 

[Ez_Vol]

This with a long host of other top notch players who’ve excelled at other places. There appears to be a common denominator and that’s Butch.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

There are people who STILL assume that it is all on the players and if they leave because of the way a coach treats them then they just need to toughen up.

In light of Antoine's comments... I think it is a pretty safe bet that Jones crosses the line too often.

Have to agree. Too many complaints from former players to now former employees.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

Saban lays into players at practice. Kirby Smart does the same.

I agree Butch is the common denominator, but I don’t think it’s because he’s “too mean”

I think some players see early that this isn’t the guy that’s going to take them very far. Either that or they are guaranteed starting positions when they sign, hence the transfer.

 

[CAVPUT]

Nevermimd. Googled him.

 

[TitanicVolz]

My thing is,I'm sure alot of what is coming out is true,but at the same if it is why has it been allowed to continue so long without any consequence??Has the university turned a blind eye here or there and let sum things slide??Who knows guess that all will come to fruition eventually.

 

[etcolton]

Where did Helm end up? What kind of career did he have? Curious. Really don't know.

duke

 

[sjt18]

Saban lays into players at practice. Kirby Smart does the same.

I agree Butch is the common denominator, but I don’t think it’s because he’s “too mean”

I think some players see early that this isn’t the guy that’s going to take them very far. Either that or they are guaranteed starting positions when they sign, hence the transfer.

"Mean" isn't the right word. You can "lay into players" yet not demean them or make them feel "bullied".

I think it would take more than we know but there is a lot of smoke suggesting Jones has player relations and management issues.

 

[DeepSpringsVol]

How can Saban recruit better and still have 4 and 5 stars waiting their turn but butch can’t? You can say, NC’s, exposure, whatever. Most kids that young want to play on the field above all.

Ask Blake Barnett, Alvin Kamara, and many other 4/5 stars from Bama. This thread isn’t meant to talk about Saban so much, more as again, what is going on in practices? What is butch saying to these kids before they are on campus versus after?

Uhhhh Saban can say whatever and the kids understand if they wait their turn they will be a part of Championship team and they will more than likely get drafted. Butch can yell like s mad man but he definitely can't honestly say you'll compete for Championships and as for playing in NFL not that common. So kids are cool with getting chewed if their is rewards on the back end.

 

[sjt18]

My thing is,I'm sure alot of what is coming out is true,but at the same if it is why has it been allowed to continue so long without any consequence??Has the university turned a blind eye here or there and let sum things slide??Who knows guess that all will come to fruition eventually.

How long have you been around here?

There's a weird phenomenon around football programs and especially this fan base. Fans don't want to hear bad things about "their coach" as long as he's winning or there's hope that he will. Some of the most vicious people here toward Jones were once about as bad toward those of us who dared criticize or question him.

IMO, Jalen Hurd likely had legitimate beefs with Jones. I think he was misled and would not be at all surprised if Jones didn't pressure him like he did Davis. You have other guys who have left at various points. But when they left, anyone who blamed anyone but them got hammered, called a liar, called an enemy of the program, etc.

 

[Otis07]

we should have listened when Jay Graham bolted for FSU

 

[zidanefan]

This may be of interest...

Helm was a homeschooled kid from a very orthodox Christian household. Very soft spoken guy. Never cussed or made any noise. A little bit of a pushover in practice. Maybe not a fit in SEC football.

Anyway, to "toughen him up", Butch called him up in the front of a team meeting and made him say "I'm a huge f***ing puss*".

 

[TNnative]

If anyone remembers, Daniel Helm was a 4 Star TE and top 5 position group in his class. Shortly after arriving on campus, he transferred out of nowhere claiming CBJ was too aggressive and cursed too much in practice.

I know, I know it’s football. This isn’t the drama club and expectations are always high at rocky top. I called him “soft” at the time but even that is becoming questionable now.

Following up on that, I did some looking back on our ‘14 and ‘15 recruiting classes and they look damn good on paper. Derrell Scott, Dwayne Hendrix, etc

How can Saban recruit better and still have 4 and 5 stars waiting their turn but butch can’t? You can say, NC’s, exposure, whatever. Most kids that young want to play on the field above all.

Ask Blake Barnett, Alvin Kamara, and many other 4/5 stars from Bama. This thread isn’t meant to talk about Saban so much, more as again, what is going on in practices? What is butch saying to these kids before they are on campus versus after?

This attrition is unheard of and I’m surprised former recruits have spoken out more on their brief time here.

I remember someone calling Helm soft, but disagreed because he was one of the players from that class I felt was most promising. He didn't play soft, and he saw plenty of the field along with Wolf. I felt those two would be four year bookends, and defenses being forced to cover both would open up the field for the wideouts.

But every TE brought in since has been a shadow of what Helm's potential was. And I was really impressed with him the one time I met him at the O&W game. Maybe others didn't see losing him as such a big deal, but I missed him every time our receivers couldn't get open.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

This with a long host of other top notch players who’ve excelled at other places. There appears to be a common denominator and that’s Butch.

What other top notch players? Where have they gone? Ferguson is doing well at Memphis. Peteman did decent at Pitt. Helm has done nothing at Duke, ditto for Scott at ECU. I am not taking up for Butch here but am curious.

 

[sjt18]

This may be of interest...

Any confirmation of that?

That's not how you "toughen" someone up. That has nothing to do with the toughness needed to win football games. In fact... just the opposite.

 

[Forever151]

Makes u wonder if he actually hit that player

 

[TNnative]

This may be of interest...

Well, if that is true, that was wrong on more levels than I can list. Inexcusable.

 

[CountVolcula]

Have you ever worked for someone who is under qualified for the position and you and everyone around you know it?

This is Butch

 

[TNnative]

Any confirmation of that?

That's not how you "toughen" someone up. That has nothing to do with the toughness needed to win football games. In fact... just the opposite.

Me and you in agreement? Who woulda thunk it?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Saban lays into players at practice. Kirby Smart does the same.

I agree Butch is the common denominator, but I don’t think it’s because he’s “too mean”

I think some players see early that this isn’t the guy that’s going to take them very far. Either that or they are guaranteed starting positions when they sign, hence the transfer.

It's a matter of respect. Players at Bama respect Saban because of his success and because he "walks the walk". Players at UT do not respect Butch as much due to the lower level of success and the fact that someone who preaches accountability to his players does not take accountability for his own actions and letting certain players (Hurd) play by a different set of rules.

 

[leftygray]

I feel like it comes down to the message that's being sold. Saban, I would assume, is pretty straightforward in terms of recruiting. He most likely lets players know upfront that they will have to work hard and wait their turn. Butch, an uheralded coach, used the immediate playing time piece as a key selling point. However, when those promises became empty, players felt lied to. I'm also assuming that he probably sold certain recruits on the "family" type feel. For a Christian kid like Helm, I'm sure Butch brought up how his kids go to Knox Catholic, etc. The common denominator is Butch knows the right things to sell recruits on, but isn't authentic. In the end, they feel misled. Saban tells it like it is and a number of his players know what to expect.

 

[zidanefan]

Well, if that is true, that was wrong on more levels than I can list. Inexcusable.

Yes, it is.

Any confirmation of that?

That's not how you "toughen" someone up. That has nothing to do with the toughness needed to win football games. In fact... just the opposite.

I don't have any confirmation - KV made a follow-up post to that one alluding to another high profile incident:

I'm no insider and didn't hear about it when it happened. I made friends with someone in the program during an athletic event when I worked with another school and we began talking about Butch and whether he was the right guy for Tennessee. (This was the summer before the 2016 season.) He told me the Helm story and some others.

To your larger point, I don't think this stuff gets out when you're running a winning program. Just like calling a guy who went to the police when he heard about a rape a "traitor" and advocating that the other players "teach him a lesson."

I've been popping in to follow the Gruden debacle, as well as some of the general RF conversation because, quite frankly, it's extremely entertaining. Several posters have alluded to the information that will begin to come out about how poorly Butch has run things, and this appears to be consistent with that. But, KV would be the one to contact about all of this. I'm merely passing along info.

 

[tbh]

Any confirmation of that?

That's not how you "toughen" someone up. That has nothing to do with the toughness needed to win football games. In fact... just the opposite.

Yup. Forcing a kid to behave in a manner contradictory to his evidently upstanding set of values is plain idiotic...not that it surprises me that Jones would do anything idiotic.

On top of that, as thin skinned and averse to criticism as Lyle is he should be the last one to force a player (regardless of upbringing or star rating) to say, "I'm a huge f***ing puss*". Jones needs to look in the mirror and repeat that to himself a few times.

 

[Plano Vol]

Have you ever worked for someone who is under qualified for the position and you and everyone around you know it?

This is Butch

working for Currie?