Crazy request for NCAA rules wonks

#1

lvocd

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#1
Is anyone here nerdy enough to understand the NCAA practice time allotment rules? AND is that person ASLO math-competent enough to do a rough estimate of how many hours of practice the Lady Vols have to prepare for their first big-time game that will come against Notre Dame in less than three months????

There is a set number of hours for EVERYthing basketball related, but I’ve never seen an actual breakdown.

Thing is, I’ve been confused about all this for years because we hear that “practice doesn’t begin until October,” but then I’m constantly reading about teams practicing well before then — and not just programs heading to foreign tours.

HELP!!!
 
#2

Putbacks

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#2
I don’t have the answer to that, but I think some practice/development occurs in sub-parts—not whole group. Maybe managing the scheduling warranted the inclusion of one of those positions like Director of Basketball Operations. (Like someone might have to document every time the basketball is operating...??? 🧐🤓🤪)
 
#4

CannonVol80

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#4
I'll see if I can relate this simply and correctly. Basically, in answer to your question, the staff can work with the team once classes start and before team practice starts for a maximum of 8 hours per week on "required weight training, conditioning and skill-related instruction". No more than 4 of these hours may be on skill-related instruction. Starting forty-two days prior to the first scheduled contest a team can begin on-court practice, but may not engage in more than 30 days of countable athletically related activities before its first regular-season contest.
"A student-athlete’s participation in countable athletically related activities (see Bylaw 17.02.1) shall be limited to a maximum of four hours per day and 20 hours per week."

There are a number of other limitations such as required days off both off season and in season, but I think the answer to the basic question is 8 hours per week before on-court practice starts and 20 hours per week, no more than 4 hours per day once on-court practice starts.

In answer to the second part of your question, the team will have roughly 136 hours of practice time available before the Notre Dame game. But the actual total is also affected by the fact that a number of "countable activities" are not practice. Things such as video review, promotional activities are countable activities.
"Countable athletically related activities include any required activity with an athletics purpose involving student-athletes and at the direction of, or supervised by, one or more of an institution’s coaching staff (including strength and conditioning coaches) and must be counted within the weekly and daily limitations under Bylaws 17.1.7.1 and 17.1.7.2."

Another thing that adds to the confusion to which you alluded is that fans tend to talk in what I call "fuzzy language". Although the NCAA regs , in my opinion, leave a fair amount of leeway for interpretation, the language is very specific. For example, "skill-related instruction" is not practice, although it looks very much like what you and I would refer to as "practice", hence the confusion, in my opinion.

I hope I am correct and that this explanation helps answer your question.

Jim
 
#5

lvocd

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#5
I'll see if I can relate this simply and correctly. Basically, in answer to your question, the staff can work with the team once classes start and before team practice starts for a maximum of 8 hours per week on "required weight training, conditioning and skill-related instruction". No more than 4 of these hours may be on skill-related instruction. Starting forty-two days prior to the first scheduled contest a team can begin on-court practice, but may not engage in more than 30 days of countable athletically related activities before its first regular-season contest.
"A student-athlete’s participation in countable athletically related activities (see Bylaw 17.02.1) shall be limited to a maximum of four hours per day and 20 hours per week."

There are a number of other limitations such as required days off both off season and in season, but I think the answer to the basic question is 8 hours per week before on-court practice starts and 20 hours per week, no more than 4 hours per day once on-court practice starts.

In answer to the second part of your question, the team will have roughly 136 hours of practice time available before the Notre Dame game. But the actual total is also affected by the fact that a number of "countable activities" are not practice. Things such as video review, promotional activities are countable activities.
"Countable athletically related activities include any required activity with an athletics purpose involving student-athletes and at the direction of, or supervised by, one or more of an institution’s coaching staff (including strength and conditioning coaches) and must be counted within the weekly and daily limitations under Bylaws 17.1.7.1 and 17.1.7.2."

Another thing that adds to the confusion to which you alluded is that fans tend to talk in what I call "fuzzy language". Although the NCAA regs , in my opinion, leave a fair amount of leeway for interpretation, the language is very specific. For example, "skill-related instruction" is not practice, although it looks very much like what you and I would refer to as "practice", hence the confusion, in my opinion.

I hope I am correct and that this explanation helps answer your question.

Jim
Jim, you are a god among men, and I bow to you.

But seriously, in all my years I’ve never read anything anymore illuminating on this subject than your post. Thank you! I have copied and pasted it to a document to keep handy, and I would love it if someone here could pin your informative post to the top of this forum.

The bottom line is that the staff are NOT swimming in an ocean of time. As I’d suspected, they’re really kinda wading in a kiddie pool of time. :eek: Of those 136 total hours, a generous estimate of actual instructional court time they’ll have would be 100 hours, and that is not much time at all.

One always hears rumors about some other highly successful programs basically ignoring the limits (and their teams look better for it, obviously), but we ALL know that Kellie will be a stickler for abiding by the rules as best she can. Bless her for wanting to “do things the right way,” but not being willing to cheat like so many others puts her at a competitive disadvantage. I’m not suggesting that she cheat like the others do, but her honest approach does make her job much harder.

I hope the players see your post and are filled with a sense of urgency and a desire to find ways to improve without having to use any of those precious 136 hours.

Thanks again.
 
#6
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#6
,,,,,,I hope the players see your post and are filled with a sense of urgency and a desire to find ways to improve without having to use any of those precious 136 hours.
There is non-countable time and

non-countable coaches,,,the girls have to seek their private coaches out themselves...If it is set up by the coaching staff it considered an arrangement. The athlete or their family has to reach out.

At least this is my interpretation.

11.7.1.1 Countable Coach. An institutional staff member or any other individual outside the institution (e.g., consultant, professional instructor) with whom the institution has made arrangements must count against coaching limits in the applicable sport as soon as the individual participates (in any manner) in any of the following: (Revised: 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)

(a) Provides technical or tactical instruction related to the sport to a student-athlete at any time;

(b) Makes or assists in making tactical decisions related to the sport during on-court or on-field practice or competition; or

(c) Engages in any off-campus recruiting activities.
 

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