Could Guarantano surprise us? (Merged)

[Other_Guy]

Jonathan Crompton was really good at the end of his Senior season, I think JG has that same potential.

I remember JC as the worst high profile QB to ever start a game, yet somehow Kiffin was able to turn him into a draftable QB. Chaney was a part of that. The fact JG improved already gives hope for him being a top QB in this league when he graduates.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

JG has not had a prayer thus far given his OL. You saw what Tua did in the games where Bama couldn't block for him, that was every game for JG. I'm not saying JG = Tua, I'm just saying JG hasn't had a chance to show much of what he can do, other than take a beating.

 

[BreatheUT]

I have stayed away from this redundant thread beside reading it. JG has been discussed ad nauseam this offseason so I am not sure why the expectation is that people's opinion will change without additional evidence. The lines are drawn. This question is for the optimistic and pessimistic, and both sides make good points. I will bite and give some thoughts.

Yes, JG will improve between year 2 and 3 just as he did between year 1 and 2. I don't know how much but a good bet is he will.

He's tough and resilient which are good qualities. Seems to show some leadership but needs to continue to improve in this area. I like that he limits turnovers. Physically he is strong with a solid arm. He throws a great ball 0-15 yards. I am sure I am missing something. I expect the run game to be improved which helps the pass game.

As far as where he needs to improve, it starts between the ears. I think several points have been made about this so l won't rehash them all. We don't know his pre snap reads or protection calls but I promise you it doesn't include not recognizing and turning your back to the blitz to take a sack. I believe QB's have the ability to direct some of the protection traffic like pointing out who the RB gets when their are two blitzer's. There should be hot reads and run calls.

Pocket awareness in general needs to get better and he struggles with evading the rush. There needs to be better chemistry between him and the receiver on the long ball because overall accuracy was poor in this area.

I can't speak for anyone else JG's first impression left a bad taste for me. Watching as he became the center of attention for appearing to have a poor attitude on national television as we struggled to win the Georgia Tech game. Maybe it was because Jones lied about playing time but it was game 1 and it was close. I thought he should've gotten in to but the more I watched the more he looked self serving.

He also rarely appears to be talking to anyone between possessions; other QBs, the OC, etc. In fact the only time I saw him engaging them was maybe when he was rallying the troops and emotional. In my mind this is "Vince Youngesque" without the accolades and how do adjust or get better between possessions? I hope to get a more favorable impression but it would be nice to get some evidence. All in all l believe he is a wonderful kid off the field and that is all that really matters.

Also, he is not as advertised and l think it's a little letdown for some. They were expecting a top duel threat QB but got a pocket passer that hasn't shown elite passing skills yet. That is not JG's fault though.

Most of this is fixable to where he can make his weaknesses adequate and even improve his strengths. Clearly he throws a lot so hopefully he's a student of the game as well.

Last, people throw the word "hate" out like a generic term like "cookies" or "cola" just because someone else is not glowing with the same level of optimism, or as a way to shut people down. That person "hates", "is a hater" therefore don't listen to their opinion and delegitimize it. You see this in society as well. Sure some of it is hate but not all of it or not even as much as the PC police want you to believe.

GBO

 

[VOLINVONORE]

It would not surprise me if he was the 3rd best QB in the SEC. If the Oline comes together, he could be excellent.

 

[PulaskiVolFan]

 

[Steven5198]

Ah, the stat game. Lol. Other than interceptions, that stat is practically all he ranks high in. Cumulative stats such as 16 TD passes in 21 game appearances, still under 3,000 career passing yards in 21 appearances doesn't seem to compute to the Guarantano apologists. Not to mention the most important one... SIX wins in 18 starts.

Guarantano retweeting that stat line above, with that kind of response, tells you alot about where the kid's at in this stage of his development. Tweet wasn't even intended or about him. Funny stuff. Way to worried about what other people think. Not even close to the first time he's done stuff like that either. I wonder if he spends half as much time in the film room as he does reading Twitter. Just wondering. That's all.

 

[k-town_king]

Ah, the stat game. Lol. Other than interceptions, that stat is practically all he ranks high in. Cumulative stats such as 16 TD passes in 21 game appearances, still under 3,000 career passing yards in 21 appearances doesn't seem to compute to the Guarantano apologists. Not to mention the most important one... SIX wins in 18 starts.

Guarantano retweeting that stat line above, with that kind of response, tells you alot about where the kid's at in this stage of his development. Tweet wasn't even intended or about him. Funny stuff. Way to worried about what other people think. Not even close to the first time he's done stuff like that either. I wonder if he spends half as much time in the film room as he does reading Twitter. Just wondering. That's all.

Why are you trying to talk about whole career. Last year he improved a ton. of course if you add in his freshman year the numbers look worse.

And as far as the wins, Tee Matin is better than Peyton to you? Higher winning percentage and a NC.

Is Jalen Hurts the greatest college qb? He is 27-2 at qb while having good stats and a NC. Or maybe Kellen Moore of Boise State is the best ever? He was 50-3.

 

[Steven5198]

Why are you trying to talk about whole career. Last year he improved a ton. of course if you add in his freshman year the numbers look worse.

And as far as the wins, Tee Matin is better than Peyton to you? Higher winning percentage and a NC.

Is Jalen Hurts the greatest college qb? He is 27-2 at qb while having good stats and a NC. Or maybe Kellen Moore of Boise State is the best ever? He was 50-3.

Whole career? Even if you just look at 2018 it's comical. 12, TWELVE touchdowns in 12 starts?! Even the lowly Storey at Arkansas had 11! They won THREE game all year. Guarantano had LESS than 2000 yards all season and only had over 200 yards TWICE all year. All of that for a guy that is THREE years post high school!

All of that and people in the fan base act like the guy is a good quarterback and that he's top three in the SEC. Same people want to quote QB rating tweeted out by a Twitter account, talk about his consecutive passes without an INT when one of those games was against South Carolina in a gameplan scripted to make it as easy possible for Guarantano. Comical. You can't make this stuff up. If he was half the QB some fans claim him to be he wouldn't have required a game plan like that against USC. Blame the offensive line, but if he knew what he was doing then he likely wouldn't have been in the physical condition to where that gameplan was necessary. Keller Chryst took hits, but he knew how to side step, turn, slide in the pocket, throw it out of bounds, etc. And guess what? He got hit good, but never took a hit like Guarantano took MULTIPLE times last year.

I never brought up winning percentage. Total wins though Peyton had just a few more as a starter in his first SEASON as a TRUE freshman than Guarantano has in 18 starts. Hey, I didn't bring those two legends into this ridiculous discussion. You did.

What about only 16 total TD's in 21 appearances? That's one of the multiple stats Guarantano fans love to gloss over. He simply can't score at a rate necessary to be a good quarterback.

Also, I remember watching every single one of the QB's you mentioned and all of those guys had the things that supposedly can't be taught. Instinct and pocket presence. Does that sound like a familiar topic with anyone when they watch Guarantano?

 

[k-town_king]

Not going to quote that wall of text @Steven5198.

A lot of talk to write "I don't have a clue what I'm talking about."

Last in attempts. Bad playcalling and blocking.

Being last in attempts the raw number total stats won't be super high.

Efficiency and ratings were made to measure what is done with the attempts available.

JG did well in the limited attempts.

You don't understand how percentages and rating works and why they are used apparently.

No one said he was top three this year. Could be next year.

 

[KBVol]

 

[white65]

Anything less than 6 wins would be a disappointing season.

 

[Devo182]

PFF rated him 5th in the SEC...thats behind the worst OL in the league. Any "surprise" will come from up front.

 

[Devo182]

View attachment 190480

Beat me to it. Furthermore, 2 of those were seniors, other 2 had far and away the best talent and blocking.

 

[Devo182]

The turnover ration is "good" because he is gun shy. His sacks are terrible.

Are they? Would ask you for proof, but I'll just sneak you the answer - 37th nationally in sacks allowed.

Yes he was absolutely god awful in 2017 - averaged 5 sacks/game. But he made tremendous strides this year and averaged about 2, which is better than average. Yes, we passed less than most teams, but that still puts him at average...with such a bad OL that's pretty good. Massive improvement in year 1 with an actual QB coach and remember Butch hardly worked the backups. He is just now catching up with coaching.

 

[Devo182]

Ah, the stat game. Lol. Other than interceptions, that stat is practically all he ranks high in. Cumulative stats such as 16 TD passes in 21 game appearances, still under 3,000 career passing yards in 21 appearances doesn't seem to compute to the Guarantano apologists. Not to mention the most important one... SIX wins in 18 starts.

Guarantano retweeting that stat line above, with that kind of response, tells you alot about where the kid's at in this stage of his development. Tweet wasn't even intended or about him. Funny stuff. Way to worried about what other people think. Not even close to the first time he's done stuff like that either. I wonder if he spends half as much time in the film room as he does reading Twitter. Just wondering. That's all.

Oh lord, the day you old schoolers stop tracking gross yardage stats and get with the times, I might just be speechless. Hmm but how could he possibly be averaging nearly 8 YPA attempt and have such high efficiency ratings?? Hmmm let's think for a moment. Quick hint buddy - he threw for a conference low 20.5 attempts/game. Doesn't even register on a national top-100 list for attempts/game. Less than freakin Terry Wilson. Think about that for a moment...

 

[Devo182]

Not going to quote that wall of text @Steven5198.
JG did well in the limited attempts.

You don't understand how percentages and rating works and why they are used apparently.

About sums it up. The fact that people still look at gross stats is absolutely mindboggling when we have every bit of efficiency numbers, QBRs, etc at our finger tips. It's not 1950 and all we have is a list of box score stats.

 

[Steven5198]

About sums it up. The fact that people still look at gross stats is absolutely mindboggling when we have every bit of efficiency numbers, QBRs, etc at our finger tips. It's not 1950 and all we have is a list of box score stats.

Say what you will about percentages but it's so easy to see that the guy is clueless when it comes to reading and knowing what he's seeing. His pocket presence is some of the poorest ever seen in the modern era of Tennessee football. ESPECIALLY considering how the guy was a consensus four star. In LIMITED samples Keller Chryst showed more about how to overcome poor offensive line play than Guarantano had ever done in Knoxville. He wasn't perfect but he showed how it CAN be done.

What is most comical about the whole thing is that so many of the Guarantano fans are basing their opinion and belief in him off of several minutes of high school highlight video. He has shown so little as far as being an even above average college quarterback that it isn't funny. I challenge you to show or give me more than ONE example of Guarantano hitting a receiver I stride on a pass over 20 yards? I mean in STRIDE where the reciever didn't have to adjust! Heck, Chryst did it in his FIRST meaningful appearance against ETSU. Murphy was wide open, but that was something Guarantano had done very little of. The other example that comes to mind is the second TD pass against Alabama that was 25 yard laser to Byrd. Guarantano wishes he had a throw like that to put in his highlight video. Again, not necessarily a Chryst fan, and he had his flaws too, but he showed in limited time what good quarterback play can look like with the team.

So, I agree. You're right in that it's ALOT more than simple stats or efficiency, QBR, blah, blah, blah.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I hope JG proves all of us doubters so wrong that the black crow gets put on the endangered species list. I also hope CJC is quick enough on the trigger that if it goes south, he starts grooming for 2020 early.

 

[ptcarter]

Why are you trying to talk about whole career. Last year he improved a ton. of course if you add in his freshman year the numbers look worse.

I'd go so far as to say the OL was worse this year than the previous year. Loss of Smith and Kennedy, and the days that Drew Richmond didn't "give his all" .. I look forward to OL improvement and totally agree with the comments of Bama's greatest quarteback to ever live and play college ball. Tua, (while still good) looked pretty normal against Clemson when the pressure was applied.

Saw a little bit of that last night in Brady against KC Chiefs. No pressure on a QB really helps them show their natural talent.

 

[D-rock]

Are they? Would ask you for proof, but I'll just sneak you the answer - 37th nationally in sacks allowed.

Yes he was absolutely god awful in 2017 - averaged 5 sacks/game. But he made tremendous strides this year and averaged about 2, which is better than average. Yes, we passed less than most teams, but that still puts him at average...with such a bad OL that's pretty good. Massive improvement in year 1 with an actual QB coach and remember Butch hardly worked the backups. He is just now catching up with coaching.

Good reply. I was really describing the nature in which he was sacked. Completely unaware of pressure and holding the ball forever. Felt as if he never used his legs to get out of trouble or even throw the ball away when nothing was there. He kept looking an hoping for something to open up. It will be good this year though. According to some on Volnation he will win a Natty, heisman and drafted in first round of the draft. Also will have a street named after him. It will be a redlight that never turns green. You stare at the light forever...

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Experience is often one of the biggest factors you see in QBs making a big jump in production. JG will have 18-20 games under his belt going into 2019. If the OL can just be average (HUGE if), then I think we could see him take a nice step forward.

If the OL isn't much better than as it’s been the past two years, then it doesn’t matter much who we have taking snaps. We’ve gotta get a lot better up front if we’re gonna have much offensive success of any kind. Hopefully Chaney can help out with that schematically and with playcalling. Helton didn’t seem very good at doing that.

 

[Volnut]

Somewhat on topic, how much can Chaney work with JG in the off-season. Is he allowed to text or e-mail plays to study or even get together to watch film?

 

[cbatey1]

So JG’s sacks are due to poor protection calls, not the worst offensive line in the history of the program. Got it

Some people get it and some don't. Your the latter

 

[VolInNW]

JG is a middling talent QB, tough as nails, and willing to take a hit. Seems like a good kid.

An SEC QB? Marginal IMO. With good protection and a straightforward gameplan he isn’t likely to get you beat. But he also isn’t likely to be the guy who wins the game for you either.

Key question: with the game on the line, is JG the guy you would trust to figure out a way to win?

 

[perico]

I think he's been hit too much too early in the season. The more confidence he has in the guys around him (and vice verses), the better he will play. If you go into a play with the mindset that you are about to get killed again, you rush things.