Comparison between Butch and Dabo

#1
CNeagleVolFan

CNeagleVolFan

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#1
Guys here is Dabo Swinney's year by year at Clemson.

Dabo Swinney Coaching Record | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

At one time they would lose games like we did against South Carolina this season. He would do this once or twice a year, but he clearly has turned the Clemson program around.(even though there was a let down against Pitt) I really think we are at that point with Butch, so this hasn't just been a problem here. It happens everywhere, because teams lose to underdogs every now and then. Butch's 5-7 team beat an 11 win South Carolina team, so it happens. I'm disappointed with not making it to the championship game, but I believe there is still a chance to finish 10-3 and improve on that next season. I just used Dabo Swinney's bio at Clemson as a point of reference, but again Butch inherited a complete mess. Go from 5-7-9-10 wins is good but slow progression, and the fact is we're just a hungry fanbase. I understand both sides of the argument for and against Butch, but I'm giving him next year to prove to me that he can be the guy. If we can't win 10 or more next year and win the east then I'm not going to be as forgiving. I like everyone else am tired of the tired cliches and coach speak, but if we were winning none of that would be an issue. I'm giving him one more offseason and year to prove a lot to me though, and I hope he proves to me and everyone else that he can lead this program back to national prominence.
 
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#5
#5
Jones still needs to win the games that he should win. No excuse for losing to SC and really should have beat aTm. With that said, considering the injuries we have had this year and still in contention to play for a Sugar Bowl birth, have to give him some credit. We are exponentially better than we were before he took over.
 
#6
#6
BearCat204 said:
Jones still needs to win the games that he should win. No excuse for losing to SC and really should have beat aTm. With that said, considering the injuries we have had this year and still in contention to play for a Sugar Bowl birth, have to give him some credit. We are exponentially better than we were before he took over.
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Agreed on all accounts. I am disappointed with the outcome of this season, but I am very pleased with the trajectory of our program still.
 
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#7
#7
I've always thought Butch should follow the Dabo model. Hire great coordinators, let them do their thing, and be the CEO and face of the program. Then he can focus on recruiting which he has shown he can do and be successful at. Hopefully Butch and UT follows the same trajectory as Dabo and Clemson too. Dabo wasn't one of those coaches that had it all figured out by year 2 or 3 like some of the elite coaches out there. He had to learn and adapt. I think it is an apt comparison.
 
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#8
#8
Gilbert said:
I've always thought Butch should follow the Dabo model. Hire great coordinators, let them do their thing, and be the CEO and face of the program. Then he can focus on recruiting which he has shown he can do and be successful at. Hopefully Butch and UT follows the same trajectory as Dabo and Clemson too. Dabo wasn't one of those coaches that had it all figured out by year 2 or 3 like some of the elite coaches out there. He had to learn and adapt. I think it is an apt comparison.
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I though it was a good comparison to bring to light as well, because Dabo had several bad losses before he got Clemson to where they are now. Butch has had a couple bad losses, but I can definitely see him having a Dabo like projectory.
 
#11
#11
One of the things Dabo did well though was that by year 3 at Clemson he was always landing great recruiting classes. Despite "clemsoning" and all the flak and jokes that came from whatever disappointing losses they suffered, he was pulling in a lot of 4* and 5* recruits, keeping them on campus for 3-4 years, getting production out of them, and getting them drafted.




Butch's recruiting has tapered off the past two cycles. His 2014 class, though initially very impressive, is much less so now that a huge number of the players have transferred or not panned out.


If we can't finish with a top 10 class this February despite our best season in a decade, it will be a bad sign for Butch IMO.
 
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#12
#12
Darth_Shiveman said:
One of the things Dabo did well though was that by year 3 at Clemson he was always landing great recruiting classes. Despite "clemsoning" and all the flak and jokes that came from whatever disappointing losses they suffered, he was pulling in a lot of 4* and 5* recruits, keeping them on campus for 3-4 years, getting production out of them, and getting them drafted.




Butch's recruiting has tapered off the past two cycles. His 2014 class, though initially very impressive, is much less so now that a huge number of the players have transferred or not panned out.


If we can't finish with a top 10 class this February despite our best season in a decade, it will be a bad sign for Butch IMO.
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I agree with you at this moment I believe that at worst our current class would finish between 18-20. Add in Trey Smith, Akers, and a couple others that may commit and we could still finish around 10th or so. We still have time to end strong in this recruiting class.
 
#13
#13
Dabo is just as corny as Butch too with his cliches and coach speak. He does own problems and mistakes 100% though and comes across as endearing and genuine to the media and fan base for the most part.
 
#14
#14
Darth_Shiveman said:
One of the things Dabo did well though was that by year 3 at Clemson he was always landing great recruiting classes. Despite "clemsoning" and all the flak and jokes that came from whatever disappointing losses they suffered, he was pulling in a lot of 4* and 5* recruits, keeping them on campus for 3-4 years, getting production out of them, and getting them drafted.




Butch's recruiting has tapered off the past two cycles. His 2014 class, though initially very impressive, is much less so now that a huge number of the players have transferred or not panned out.


If we can't finish with a top 10 class this February despite our best season in a decade, it will be a bad sign for Butch IMO.
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After a little research on 247 recruiting compared between Dabo and Butch actually isn't all that different.

Clemson ranking 14-17(current)
14-17th
15-9th
16-11th
17-7th

Avg for 4 years: 11th

Tennessee ranking 14-17(current rank)

14- 7th
15- 4th
16- 15th
17- 10th

Avg for 4 years: 9th

So recruiting between the 2 according to 247 sports is equal as well. So overall it's a good comparison! We will just have to see what happens next season.
 
#15
#15
CNeagleVolFan said:
After a little research on 247 recruiting compared between Dabo and Butch actually isn't all that different.

Clemson ranking 14-17(current)
14-17th
15-9th
16-11th
17-7th

Avg for 4 years: 11th

Tennessee ranking 14-17(current rank)

14- 7th
15- 4th
16- 15th
17- 10th

Avg for 4 years: 9th

So recruiting between the 2 according to 247 sports is equal as well. So overall it's a good comparison! We will just have to see what happens next season.
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The key difference here is the ability to land, hold onto, and get production out of top prospects.


If you were to adjust those rankings for the players we've lost, we wouldn't hold up nearly as well. Especially in the 2014 class.
 
#16
#16
Darth_Shiveman said:
The key difference here is the ability to land, hold onto, and get production out of top prospects.


If you were to adjust those rankings for the players we've lost, we wouldn't hold up nearly as well. Especially in the 2014 class.
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See Larry's thread on attrition.

Attrition was a necessity if you wanted to flip the roster.

The key differences are the starting point and the conference we play in. Also, this doesn't include the 13 class which is the current senior class
 
#17
#17
BearCat204 said:
Jones still needs to win the games that he should win. No excuse for losing to SC and really should have beat aTm. With that said, considering the injuries we have had this year and still in contention to play for a Sugar Bowl berth, have to give him some credit. We are exponentially better than we were before he took over.
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Aren't you a Sailor?
 
#18
#18
BigZiti09 said:
See Larry's thread on attrition.

Attrition was a necessity if you wanted to flip the roster.

The key differences are the starting point and the conference we play in. Also, this doesn't include the 13 class which is the current senior class
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Huh?
The attrition is from Butch's classes. He's actually gotten some really good play from Doolyes recruits.
Think about this, Sawyers, Hendrix on the d-line? Id even throw in Stewwart (Butch should have rerecruited this guy. Awesome, strong DT) How about a handful of slot receivers? Helm at TE. These were players that blew out of here quick. That attrition which was brushed off took a toll this year.
 
#19
#19
Roustabout said:
Huh?
The attrition is from Butch's classes. He's actually gotten some really good play from Doolyes recruits.
Think about this, Sawyers, Hendrix on the d-line? Id even throw in Stewwart (Butch should have rerecruited this guy. Awesome, strong DT) How about a handful of slot receivers? Helm at TE. These were players that blew out of here quick. That attrition which was brushed off took a toll this year.
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How would you have liked to sign a class of about 12 guys last February and again in 2017?
 
#20
#20
BearCat204 said:
Jones still needs to win the games that he should win. No excuse for losing to SC and really should have beat aTm. With that said, considering the injuries we have had this year and still in contention to play for a Sugar Bowl birth, have to give him some credit. We are exponentially better than we were before he took over.
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At least he's not Dooley....that's the spirit ;)
 
#21
#21
BearCat204 said:
Jones still needs to win the games that he should win. No excuse for losing to SC and really should have beat aTm. With that said, considering the injuries we have had this year and still in contention to play for a Sugar Bowl birth, have to give him some credit. We are exponentially better than we were before he took over.
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Not sure what you would have wanted Butch to do during the A&M game.... Gameplan seemed decent, players just looked like the rubbed KY jelly all over their hands...

The SC game was bad, I'll give that to you. But the other two loses were to an incredibly talented Bama team and the other was away to a top 10 team in the country in 2OT.
 
#22
#22
BearCat204 said:
Jones still needs to win the games that he should win. No excuse for losing to SC and really should have beat aTm. With that said, considering the injuries we have had this year and still in contention to play for a Sugar Bowl birth, have to give him some credit. We are exponentially better than we were before he took over.
Click to expand...

There's no excuse for Clemson losing to Pitt, Michigan to Iowa, Ohio State to Penn State, Goergia to Vanderbilt or Ole Miss to Vanderbilt. It happens to the best coaches every single year.
 
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