Comparing Vols to Barnes' Teams that Reached #1

#2
#2
I’ve been saying for a while that, given Barnes’s history, Vols fans shouldn’t get too far ahead of themselves yet with this early season success. We have a wealth of evidence of Barnes teams collapsing in February and March. Remember, his last seven teams never went further than the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament.

Glad you didn't say it was cheerful insight.
 
#4
#4
therealitytheory said:
I’ve been saying for a while that, given Barnes’s history, Vols fans shouldn’t get too far ahead of themselves yet with this early season success. We have a wealth of evidence of Barnes teams collapsing in February and March. Remember, his last seven teams never went further than the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament.

Glad you didn't say it was cheerful insight.
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I hesitated posting for that reason, but it's good to go forward with your eyes open. This will answer the biggest question about Barnes - though he has in our opinion improved as a coach, will it carry over into March?
 
#5
#5
I don't know what the maturity and leadership make up of those Texas teams were, or what, if any, major injuries they may have sustained down the stretch. Obviously key injuries can change things quickly, but I really like the maturity and leadership of this Vols team.
 
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#6
#6
Crazy Ivan said:
I don't know what the maturity and leadership make up of those Texas teams were, or what, if any, major injuries they may have sustained down the stretch. Obviously key injuries can change things quickly, but I really like the maturity and leadership of this Vols team.
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The word out there on Barnes is he is too hard on players, so they break down at the end of the year. There might have been some truth to it at Texas, but here at Tennessee I don’t think it’s been the case.

Barnes’ 2nd year we collapsed down the stretch, but that was more due to us being extremely young and undersized IMO. Last year we finished strong to co-win the SEC and was one Kyle Alexander injury away from a sweet sixteen, maybe more. I’m not worried about it.
 
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#8
#8
calban said:
I hesitated posting for that reason, but it's good to go forward with your eyes open. This will answer the biggest question about Barnes - though he has in our opinion improved as a coach, will it carry over into March?
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I'm hopeful, but nowhere near certain, it'll be different this time.

Rick's M.O. at Texas was recruit extremely well, have a bunch of highly-rated players, then underachieve with them. So far at Tennessee he's recruited lower-rated guys and coached them up into a great team. He still got bounced early last year but it was against that year's Cinderella who went all the way to the Final Four. An early bounce this year would be extremely disappointing and largely cement the reputation he has.
 
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#9
#9
05_never_again said:
I'm hopeful, but nowhere near certain, it'll be different this time.

Rick's M.O. at Texas was recruit extremely well, have a bunch of highly-rated players, then underachieve with them. So far at Tennessee he's recruited lower-rated guys and coached them up into a great team. He still got bounced early last year but it was against that year's Cinderella who went all the way to the Final Four. An early bounce this year would be extremely disappointing and largely cement the reputation he has.
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That Cinderella had 2 elite, great shooting guards. This recipe or a team with multiple elite players (i.e. KU, UK, Duke, Auburn, LSU, Nevada, UNC) will give UTK absolute fits come tourney time (or sooner).

I've said this before on this board, Barnes is more akin to Tubby Smith than any number of elite coaches Vol fans are enshrining him with. Peak in January, players worn down by the coach by February, fizzle in March.
 
#11
#11
tdawgriggs10 said:
That Cinderella had 2 elite, great shooting guards. This recipe or a team with multiple elite players (i.e. KU, UK, Duke, Auburn, LSU, Nevada, UNC) will give UTK absolute fits come tourney time (or sooner).

I've said this before on this board, Barnes is more akin to Tubby Smith than any number of elite coaches Vol fans are enshrining him with. Peak in January, players worn down by the coach by February, fizzle in March.
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I hope you're wrong. My fear is that your comments aren't off base, even though I want them to be so bad.

If Tennessee only has to worry about the KUs, UKs, Dukes, etc., of the world, that's pretty good. The top teams are going to give anyone fits - that's why they are top teams. We shouldn't see those teams until late in the tournament anyway. Teams with two great guards/shooters are also going to give anyone fits. I don't know of any team, or style of team, that would say they match up well against a team with great shooting guard play and would rather face them then a team that is stacked at forward.

It's like facing a team in football with multiple great pass rushers. Even if you have a great offensive line, you have to specially account for them, which can change the gameplan. It isn't like facing a team with one good corner (throw away from that guy) or one great WR (slide coverages over to help your CB). That is an attribute that will give any team, no matter how good they are, trouble.
 
#12
#12
I get what's being said here, but I still have a hard time with them having progressed over 2 years to #1 status and Championship hopeful, to possible negatives about Barnes and possible hypotheticals about this years NCAA tournament. Before it's said, I'm not keeping my head in the sand, i'm just not worried about history repeating itself. I'm enjoying the ride.
 
#13
#13
tdawgriggs10 said:
That Cinderella had 2 elite, great shooting guards. This recipe or a team with multiple elite players (i.e. KU, UK, Duke, Auburn, LSU, Nevada, UNC) will give UTK absolute fits come tourney time (or sooner).

I've said this before on this board, Barnes is more akin to Tubby Smith than any number of elite coaches Vol fans are enshrining him with. Peak in January, players worn down by the coach by February, fizzle in March.
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I don't believe this is going to happen this time. Barnes pushes these guys hard, but they respect him and speak openly about how much the team and coach care for one another. Rick Barnes himself has consistently admitted he was too hard on players in the past and too intense in general.

This team is special. You have a group of guys who are just good basketball players, who want to and enjoy playing together, and who respect their coach. This team is nothing like his Texas teams.
 
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#14
#14
With the exceptions of the blue bloods, success in the NCAAT has a lot to do with luck... especially injuries. Bad refs and hot teams often ruin great seasons for great teams.

In the NCAAT, King was injured. Alexander's injury last year cost TN a potential FF.

Not just injuries, but long seasons in highly competitive conferences wear on good teams by the time that the NCAAT rolls around after nearly 5 months of games. 2nd tier P-5s are at a disadvantage relative to the big fish in little pond mid majors. Witchita State, Memphis State, Butler, VCU, etc. benefit from inferior competition during the regular season that allows them to take many nights off without a threat of losing. If the P-5s do that, they risk getting knocked out of the field.
 
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#15
#15
They may not be talking + about us. But at least they're talking about us. Enjoy the ride Vols!
 
#16
#16
tdawgriggs10 said:
That Cinderella had 2 elite, great shooting guards. This recipe or a team with multiple elite players (i.e. KU, UK, Duke, Auburn, LSU, Nevada, UNC) will give UTK absolute fits come tourney time (or sooner).

I've said this before on this board, Barnes is more akin to Tubby Smith than any number of elite coaches Vol fans are enshrining him with. Peak in January, players worn down by the coach by February, fizzle in March.
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Nevermind. Not worth the time to type it out.
 
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#17
#17
calban said:
I hesitated posting for that reason, but it's good to go forward with your eyes open. This will answer the biggest question about Barnes - though he has in our opinion improved as a coach, will it carry over into March?
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The answer is yes. I guarantee we will be playing the second weekend. Once you get that far it’s about matchups and which teams are hot but our team is about as matchup proof as a team can be. Once the bracket comes out we will see what the path looks like but I won’t be picking us short of the Final 4.
 
#18
#18
Some of our fans just need to enjoy the ride and just let the season play out. I'm glad our players are mentally tough and won't let all of this hype get too them. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this team has better chemistry than that Texas team, and our team is deeper as well. We've won several games without our best two players playing their best. Damion James, Dexter Pittman, Avery Bradley, and Jordan Hamilton were their whole team and if one of them had an off night they really struggled. The latter two were also Freshman. They didn't have a pg as good as Bone either.

Stats don't lie...

Texas assist per game: 14.4

Tennessee assist per game: 20.1 (The reason this team is so good)

Texas freethrow %: 63.3

Tennessee freethrow %: 75.9

The Texas team was a really good rebounding team Pittman and James were really good rebounders, but they only averaged two more rebounds per game than us, and I say that's our teams biggest weakness.
 
#19
#19
Stoked said:
Some of our fans just need to enjoy the ride and just let the season play out. I'm glad our players are mentally tough and won't let all of this hype get too them. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this team has better chemistry than that Texas team, and our team is deeper as well. We've won several games without our best two players playing their best. Damion James, Dexter Pittman, Avery Bradley, and Jordan Hamilton were their whole team and if one of them had an off night they really struggled. The latter two were also Freshman. They didn't have a pg as good as Bone either.

Stats don't lie...

Texas assist per game: 14.4

Tennessee assist per game: 20.1 (The reason this team is so good)

Texas freethrow %: 63.3

Tennessee freethrow %: 75.9

The Texas team was a really good rebounding team Pittman and James were really good rebounders, but they only averaged two more rebounds per game than us, and I say that's our teams biggest weakness.
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I don't vividly remember watching those Texas teams play, but it seems reasonable to think this Vols squad has better chemistry and plays better as a unit.

Rick's 2006-07 Texas team though...D.J. Augustin, Damion James, Kevin Durant, Dexter Pittman...finished 3rd in the Big 12 and got bounced in the Round of 32 in the NCAAT. Yikes.
 
#20
#20
05_never_again said:
I don't vividly remember watching those Texas teams play, but it seems reasonable to think this Vols squad has better chemistry and plays better as a unit.

Rick's 2006-07 Texas team though...D.J. Augustin, Damion James, Kevin Durant, Dexter Pittman...finished 3rd in the Big 12 and got bounced in the Round of 32 in the NCAAT. Yikes.
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Yeah well KD only wins when he joins the best team in the league, so there's that lol.
 
#21
#21
Pushing 4 and 5 star guys who came into college on their way to the NBA is different that pushing 3* guys who got everything they have thus far by being pushed.

This team may indeed burn out but it wont be from lack of effort.
 
#22
#22
Lots of good coaches (like pearl) have never even reached the final four but CRB has. Barnes has had some successes and failures in March. Enjoy the season and hope for the best.
 
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