Comparing the 2016-17 and 2017-18 LV line-ups

#1

madtownvol

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#1
Ten games in, we can start to make some comparisons and projects. In this assessment, I am not taking into account important intangibles like team chemistry, competitive attitude, or work ethic (though it is pretty clear that this year’s team has a big edge in those categories). Rather, I am evaluating our player quality on a position by position basis (and assuming no major injuries and a reasonable freshman learning curve).

Let’s start with the easy ones:

Mercedes 2017-18 is clearly an improved player from last season. Better hands, better footwork around the rim, getting up and down the court better, and a more physical presence in the paint.

Meme 2017-18 is a strong candidate for most improved player. She looks like an entirely different player from last year. 2016-17 her defense, despite her reputation as a stopper, often was lagging (giving up the baseline; being caught out of position). This season, she has been a rock solid defender this year and her offensive game has gone from spotty to pretty darn consistent. She can get to the rim; hit mid rangers; and her three has become a shot that defenses have to respect.

Evina and Annie are major upgrades over Reynolds and Middleton (and no disrespect to Jordan and Alexa; they were good contributors to the team last year). However, these freshman are just on a different plane of ability.

When all is said and done, I believe Green will also be an upgrade over Nunn (who again was a valuable contributor last season). I think Cheridene is more athletic and has a better touch than Schaquilla. When we add KK into the mix, this year’s team is much better in terms of the back-up post and PF slots than the 2016-17 team.

Nared 2017-2018 is a better version of “go to” player Diamond 2016-17. Jamie probably won’t make as many highlight reel plays as DD but in terms of night in and night out consistent high level performance, it will be Jamie all the way.

The trickier ones:

Who will be this year’s version of Nared (2016-17)—that is, the third component of our offensive big three? Rennia Davis looks like the most likely candidate. Davis has sky is the limit potential but she is not nearly as polished as the junior version of Nared. I think Davis may be a comparatively better rebounder and could become a better inside scorer than Jamie was last year. However, RD’s overall offensive game is not of the same caliber (one caveat is that Davis’s jumper actually looks pretty good and I expect that some of her threes will start falling). On balance, particularly if Davis fast tracks over the course of the season, this gap may not be too big but I think this is one position where the 2016-17 would have a moderate advantage.

And what kind of gap is left by Te’a Cooper's transfer? One unknown in that equation is her recovery from the ACL injury. Sometimes players bounce back as though nothing ever happened and others struggle in their return season to regain form and confidence. Let’s assume that Te’a is on the positive side of the recovery curve. She showed promise as a freshman but (projecting based on the ten games), I don’t think she will measure up to the freshman standard being set by Evina and Annie. So where would Cooper fit in 2017-2018 rotation? No way does she start over Westbrook. Hayes would still be my first choice off the bench. I would not cut Meme’s minutes either. So, my estimate is that Te’a would add valuable depth to the team and would be a role player who comes in to provide a spark. But barring injury, I don’t think she would be essential to the team’s overall success. She would make the 2017-18 better from a talent standpoint but given the number of game minutes and three quality guards who would be ahead of her in the rotation, it would have been a small increment.

KD and Harris both look to be improved. I think KD may become that give us a spark role player but I think she still can only succeed against certain kinds of match-ups. Harris as well can have an impact in some games when the match-ups play to her strengths. From what I can tell both players have embraced their roles on the team and so edge to 2017-2018.

Coaching.

Holly seems to have a better connection with this group of players than last year. I think Holly works better with players who are highly self-motivated and competitive. Maybe CPS could instill those attributes into players but that is just not Holly’s forte. However, her softer approach works well with players who don’t need a drill sergeant and she is getting great results so far. Edge 2017-18 Holly.

Bridgette Gordon – Her hire is a big upgrade over Jolette Law. If anyone channels the spirit of CPS, it's Gordon. I could easily see in 3 or 4 years, Holly handing the reigns over to Gordon, who would definitely keep the Summitt legacy alive.

So, yeah I am psyched about this year’s team.

Volnation board:

Much improved from last season; more passion; more excitement; more balanced evaluations; better troll control. Go LVs!!
 
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#3

PRG

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#3
Well said: MeMe is much improved from last year. I think that the mental aspect has come ON and she knows now that she can play at this level! Plus she obviously worked on her offense and overall game !

I have said before that Rennia is a key to this team. She is slowly realizing her potential and she can excel at this level!!! She does not know how good she can become ! Not yet.... but it will come and THEN this team will become a contender for a NC!
JMO
 
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#4

Volfan2012

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#4
The huge difference is definitely point guard play and scoring.
Green is a double double anytime she gets the minutes.
Davis is the x factor that could take us all the way to the Championship. When she begins to take over and play with intensity will be very hard to beat the Lady Vols. She is still a little uncertain and still passive may be next season before we see her total ability.
 
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#5

Rudy123

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#5
Much improved but we need to bet Notre Dame, Stanford & South Carolina (twice)
I fully expect us to lose about 10 games based soley on Holly's lack of coaching...
 
#8

orangemadam

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#8
Madtown, do you ever sleep?

Very good write-up. I really think the cancer has been removed and we will see a far superior product this year over last. Potential final 4, probable Sweet 16.
 
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#11

Ladyvol777

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#11
Ten games in, we can start to make some comparisons and projects. In this assessment, I am not taking into account important intangibles like team chemistry, competitive attitude, or work ethic (though it is pretty clear that this year’s team has a big edge in those categories). Rather, I am evaluating our player quality on a position by position basis (and assuming no major injuries and a reasonable freshman learning curve).

Let’s start with the easy ones:

Mercedes 2017-18 is clearly an improved player from last season. Better hands, better footwork around the rim, getting up and down the court better, and a more physical presence in the paint.

Meme 2017-18 is a strong candidate for most improved player. She looks like an entirely different player from last year. 2016-17 her defense, despite her reputation as a stopper, often was lagging (giving up the baseline; being caught out of position). This season, she has been a rock solid defender this year and her offensive game has gone from spotty to pretty darn consistent. She can get to the rim; hit mid rangers; and her three has become a shot that defenses have to respect.

Evina and Annie are major upgrades over Reynolds and Middleton (and no disrespect to Jordan and Alexa; they were good contributors to the team last year). However, these freshman are just on a different plane of ability.

When all is said and done, I believe Green will also be an upgrade over Nunn (who again was a valuable contributor last season). I think Cheridene is more athletic and has a better touch than Schaquilla. When we add KK into the mix, this year’s team is much better in terms of the back-up post and PF slots than the 2016-17 team.

Nared 2017-2018 is a better version of “go to” player Diamond 2016-17. Jamie probably won’t make as many highlight reel plays as DD but in terms of night in and night out consistent high level performance, it will be Jamie all the way.

The trickier ones:

Who will be this year’s version of Nared (2016-17)—that is, the third component of our offensive big three? Rennia Davis looks like the most likely candidate. Davis has sky is the limit potential but she is not nearly as polished as the junior version of Nared. I think Davis may be a comparatively better rebounder and could become a better inside scorer than Jamie was last year. However, RD’s overall offensive game is not of the same caliber (one caveat is that Davis’s jumper actually looks pretty good and I expect that some of her threes will start falling). On balance, particularly if Davis fast tracks over the course of the season, this gap may not be too big but I think this is one position where the 2016-17 would have a moderate advantage.

Te’a Cooper. One unknown is her recovery from the ACL injury. Sometimes players are back as though nothing ever happened and others struggle in their return season to regain form and confidence. Let’s assume that Te’a is on the positive side of the recovery curve. She showed promise as a freshman but (projecting based on the ten games), I don’t think she will measure up to the freshman standard being set by Evina and Annie. So where would Cooper fit in 2017-2018 rotation? No way does she start over Westbrook. Hayes would still be my first choice off the bench. I would not cut Meme’s minutes either. So, my estimate is that Te’a would add valuable depth to the team and would be a role player who comes in to provide a spark. But barring injury, I don’t think she would be essential to the team’s overall success. She would make the 2017-18 better from a talent standpoint but given the number of game minutes and three quality guards who would be ahead of her in the rotation, it would have been a small increment.

KD and Harris both look to be improved. I think KD may become that give us a spark role player but I think she still can only succeed against certain kinds of match-ups. Harris as well can have an impact in some games when the match-ups play to her strengths. From what I can tell both players have embraced their roles on the team and so edge to 2017-2018.

Coaching.

Holly seems to have a better connection with this group of players than last year. I think Holly works better with players who are highly self-motivated and competitive. Maybe CPS could instill those attributes into players but that is just not Holly’s forte. However, her softer approach works well with players who don’t need a drill sergeant and she is getting great results so far. Edge 2017-18 Holly.

Bridgette Gordon – Her hire is a big upgrade over Jolette Law. If anyone channels the spirit of CPS, it's Gordon. I could easily see in 3 or 4 years, Holly handing the reigns over to Gordon, who would definitely keep the Summitt legacy alive.

So, yeah I am psyched about this year’s team.

Volnation board:

Much improved from last season; more passion; more excitement; more balanced evaluations; better troll control. Go LVs!!
I love it all but I think T'ea Cooper could be a very good player and hard to get out of the lineup. Love how this freshmen ask questions not like last year where DD was trying to run the show.
 
#13

ladyvosl23

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#13
Ten games in, we can start to make some comparisons and projects. In this assessment, I am not taking into account important intangibles like team chemistry, competitive attitude, or work ethic (though it is pretty clear that this year’s team has a big edge in those categories). Rather, I am evaluating our player quality on a position by position basis (and assuming no major injuries and a reasonable freshman learning curve).

Let’s start with the easy ones:

Mercedes 2017-18 is clearly an improved player from last season. Better hands, better footwork around the rim, getting up and down the court better, and a more physical presence in the paint.

Meme 2017-18 is a strong candidate for most improved player. She looks like an entirely different player from last year. 2016-17 her defense, despite her reputation as a stopper, often was lagging (giving up the baseline; being caught out of position). This season, she has been a rock solid defender this year and her offensive game has gone from spotty to pretty darn consistent. She can get to the rim; hit mid rangers; and her three has become a shot that defenses have to respect.

Evina and Annie are major upgrades over Reynolds and Middleton (and no disrespect to Jordan and Alexa; they were good contributors to the team last year). However, these freshman are just on a different plane of ability.

When all is said and done, I believe Green will also be an upgrade over Nunn (who again was a valuable contributor last season). I think Cheridene is more athletic and has a better touch than Schaquilla. When we add KK into the mix, this year’s team is much better in terms of the back-up post and PF slots than the 2016-17 team.

Nared 2017-2018 is a better version of “go to” player Diamond 2016-17. Jamie probably won’t make as many highlight reel plays as DD but in terms of night in and night out consistent high level performance, it will be Jamie all the way.

The trickier ones:

Who will be this year’s version of Nared (2016-17)—that is, the third component of our offensive big three? Rennia Davis looks like the most likely candidate. Davis has sky is the limit potential but she is not nearly as polished as the junior version of Nared. I think Davis may be a comparatively better rebounder and could become a better inside scorer than Jamie was last year. However, RD’s overall offensive game is not of the same caliber (one caveat is that Davis’s jumper actually looks pretty good and I expect that some of her threes will start falling). On balance, particularly if Davis fast tracks over the course of the season, this gap may not be too big but I think this is one position where the 2016-17 would have a moderate advantage.

And what kind of gap is left by Te’a Cooper's transfer? One unknown in that equation is her recovery from the ACL injury. Sometimes players bounce back as though nothing ever happened and others struggle in their return season to regain form and confidence. Let’s assume that Te’a is on the positive side of the recovery curve. She showed promise as a freshman but (projecting based on the ten games), I don’t think she will measure up to the freshman standard being set by Evina and Annie. So where would Cooper fit in 2017-2018 rotation? No way does she start over Westbrook. Hayes would still be my first choice off the bench. I would not cut Meme’s minutes either. So, my estimate is that Te’a would add valuable depth to the team and would be a role player who comes in to provide a spark. But barring injury, I don’t think she would be essential to the team’s overall success. She would make the 2017-18 better from a talent standpoint but given the number of game minutes and three quality guards who would be ahead of her in the rotation, it would have been a small increment.

KD and Harris both look to be improved. I think KD may become that give us a spark role player but I think she still can only succeed against certain kinds of match-ups. Harris as well can have an impact in some games when the match-ups play to her strengths. From what I can tell both players have embraced their roles on the team and so edge to 2017-2018.

Coaching.

Holly seems to have a better connection with this group of players than last year. I think Holly works better with players who are highly self-motivated and competitive. Maybe CPS could instill those attributes into players but that is just not Holly’s forte. However, her softer approach works well with players who don’t need a drill sergeant and she is getting great results so far. Edge 2017-18 Holly.

Bridgette Gordon – Her hire is a big upgrade over Jolette Law. If anyone channels the spirit of CPS, it's Gordon. I could easily see in 3 or 4 years, Holly handing the reigns over to Gordon, who would definitely keep the Summitt legacy alive.

So, yeah I am psyched about this year’s team.

Volnation board:

Much improved from last season; more passion; more excitement; more balanced evaluations; better troll control. Go LVs!!
please go to bed holly aint handing nothing over to anybody she wants to be the head coach for a long time and lets not make it seem like its all gordon and whos to say holly is not getting on them and pat had issues with players as welll
 
#14

madtownvol

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#14
please go to bed holly aint handing nothing over to anybody she wants to be the head coach for a long time and lets not make it seem like its all gordon and whos to say holly is not getting on them and pat had issues with players as welll
Who said it was "all Gordon?" I said BG was an upgrade over Law and that Holly seems to be connecting better with this group of players.

So, you don't think Holly has a different coaching styles than CPS? Okey dokey....
 
#15

37620VOL

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#15
Much improved but we need to bet Notre Dame, Stanford & South Carolina (twice)
I fully expect us to lose about 10 games based soley on Holly's lack of coaching...
We only have 19 regular season games left. I don't think 10 losses is reasonable based on the way we've been playing. Odds are that we will see improved play as our freshmen will naturally improve as the season goes on.
 
#16

37620VOL

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#16
Who said it was "all Gordon?" I said BG was an upgrade over Law and that Holly seems to be connecting better with this group of players.

So, you don't think Holly has a different coaching styles than CPS? Okey dokey....
MTV, some people only hear what they want to hear, or they just like being argumentative. I don't think Holly will step down in the next 5 years, baring health concerns. But I do think we should consider grooming her for the position in our longterm plans. Very impressed so far.
 
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#17

madtownvol

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#17
We only have 19 regular season games left. I don't think 10 losses is reasonable based on the way we've been playing. Odds are that we will see improved play as our freshmen will naturally improve as the season goes on.
I agree. I think we split the series with SC. We probably lose to ND but I think it will be a close game.

SEC is a tough schedule and we could drop 2 or 3 games on the road (I think the LVS won't lose on their home court this season).

So, I would predict 3 to 5 losses before the SEC tournament starts.
 
#18

volfanIND

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#18
Our next test is handling a top 10 program on their home floor.
The Texas game is SO important because of the confidence it gave our players. The Texas game has given this team a new mentality that they CAN play. It's no longer just in their mind as a hypothesis, it's absolute. They needed this win just as bad as the fans.
Another test that this team needs to experience is a loss. I don't like to lose, but it will be important for this team to experience that defeat and let it soak in. How a team responds is SO important, especially when your trying to be a top team in the country. You have to be able to review what you did wrong, make a plan to adjust, and then execute. It's clear as clean water that this team has a focus about them that we haven't seen in many years.
It's sort of strange because we all know ( we = us who actually follows the team day in and day out) the growth that this team has gone through in such a young season. But there are some things that this team needs to experience to put us where we need to be at the end of the season.
I can see some scary good results with this team.
 
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#19

madtownvol

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#19
MTV, some people only hear what they want to hear, or they just like being argumentative. I don't think Holly will step down in the next 5 years, baring health concerns. But I do think we should consider grooming her for the position in our longterm plans. Very impressed so far.
Of course, my speculation about BG perhaps taking over as HC in 3 to 5 years was just that. However, Holly will be 60 in June. That can be a landmark moment for people as they reflect on what they want to do with the rest of their lives. Maybe Holly wants to coach till she is 75 or maybe she will want to do something else in a few years. In either case, I like the idea that there is a quality person waiting in the wings should Holly decide it is time to move on.
 
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#20

Undercovervol

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#20
Our next test is handling a top 10 program on their home floor.
The Texas game is SO important because of the confidence it gave our players. The Texas game has given this team a new mentality that they CAN play. It's no longer just in their mind as a hypothesis, it's absolute. They needed this win just as bad as the fans.
Another test that this team needs to experience is a loss. I don't like to lose, but it will be important for this team to experience that defeat and let it soak in. How a team responds is SO important, especially when your trying to be a top team in the country. You have to be able to review what you did wrong, make a plan to adjust, and then execute. It's clear as clean water that this team has a focus about them that we haven't seen in many years.
It's sort of strange because we all know ( we = us who actually follows the team day in and day out) the growth that this team has gone through in such a young season. But there are some things that this team needs to experience to put us where we need to be at the end of the season.
I can see some scary good results with this team.
I disagree that teams needs to experience a loss. All the reasons you gave can be done without experiencing a loss. If there's one thing that I look up to Geno for, it has always been his comments that "needing" to lose one in order to improve isn't correct. Just my two cents. Every game should be approached with the same mindset: go out and dominate the opponent, expecting to win through aggressive play.

I agree that Davis is our X factor. She needs to become more aggressive and get to the basket--very few players in the country can stop her high quality looks if she gets into the paint. Trust me, though, Gordon is always on Davis to get more aggressive. Davis is still developing and working through passivity, but even so, she had a few impressive plays sunday. She has a high basketball IQ, and i think she's watching in order to learn from Jaime.
 
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#21

Undercovervol

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#21
Ten games in, we can start to make some comparisons and projects. In this assessment, I am not taking into account important intangibles like team chemistry, competitive attitude, or work ethic (though it is pretty clear that this year’s team has a big edge in those categories). Rather, I am evaluating our player quality on a position by position basis (and assuming no major injuries and a reasonable freshman learning curve).

Let’s start with the easy ones:

Mercedes 2017-18 is clearly an improved player from last season. Better hands, better footwork around the rim, getting up and down the court better, and a more physical presence in the paint.

Meme 2017-18 is a strong candidate for most improved player. She looks like an entirely different player from last year. 2016-17 her defense, despite her reputation as a stopper, often was lagging (giving up the baseline; being caught out of position). This season, she has been a rock solid defender this year and her offensive game has gone from spotty to pretty darn consistent. She can get to the rim; hit mid rangers; and her three has become a shot that defenses have to respect.

Evina and Annie are major upgrades over Reynolds and Middleton (and no disrespect to Jordan and Alexa; they were good contributors to the team last year). However, these freshman are just on a different plane of ability.

When all is said and done, I believe Green will also be an upgrade over Nunn (who again was a valuable contributor last season). I think Cheridene is more athletic and has a better touch than Schaquilla. When we add KK into the mix, this year’s team is much better in terms of the back-up post and PF slots than the 2016-17 team.

Nared 2017-2018 is a better version of “go to” player Diamond 2016-17. Jamie probably won’t make as many highlight reel plays as DD but in terms of night in and night out consistent high level performance, it will be Jamie all the way.

The trickier ones:

Who will be this year’s version of Nared (2016-17)—that is, the third component of our offensive big three? Rennia Davis looks like the most likely candidate. Davis has sky is the limit potential but she is not nearly as polished as the junior version of Nared. I think Davis may be a comparatively better rebounder and could become a better inside scorer than Jamie was last year. However, RD’s overall offensive game is not of the same caliber (one caveat is that Davis’s jumper actually looks pretty good and I expect that some of her threes will start falling). On balance, particularly if Davis fast tracks over the course of the season, this gap may not be too big but I think this is one position where the 2016-17 would have a moderate advantage.

And what kind of gap is left by Te’a Cooper's transfer? One unknown in that equation is her recovery from the ACL injury. Sometimes players bounce back as though nothing ever happened and others struggle in their return season to regain form and confidence. Let’s assume that Te’a is on the positive side of the recovery curve. She showed promise as a freshman but (projecting based on the ten games), I don’t think she will measure up to the freshman standard being set by Evina and Annie. So where would Cooper fit in 2017-2018 rotation? No way does she start over Westbrook. Hayes would still be my first choice off the bench. I would not cut Meme’s minutes either. So, my estimate is that Te’a would add valuable depth to the team and would be a role player who comes in to provide a spark. But barring injury, I don’t think she would be essential to the team’s overall success. She would make the 2017-18 better from a talent standpoint but given the number of game minutes and three quality guards who would be ahead of her in the rotation, it would have been a small increment.

KD and Harris both look to be improved. I think KD may become that give us a spark role player but I think she still can only succeed against certain kinds of match-ups. Harris as well can have an impact in some games when the match-ups play to her strengths. From what I can tell both players have embraced their roles on the team and so edge to 2017-2018.

Coaching.

Holly seems to have a better connection with this group of players than last year. I think Holly works better with players who are highly self-motivated and competitive. Maybe CPS could instill those attributes into players but that is just not Holly’s forte. However, her softer approach works well with players who don’t need a drill sergeant and she is getting great results so far. Edge 2017-18 Holly.

Bridgette Gordon – Her hire is a big upgrade over Jolette Law. If anyone channels the spirit of CPS, it's Gordon. I could easily see in 3 or 4 years, Holly handing the reigns over to Gordon, who would definitely keep the Summitt legacy alive.

So, yeah I am psyched about this year’s team.

Volnation board:

Much improved from last season; more passion; more excitement; more balanced evaluations; better troll control. Go LVs!!
Frankly, I'm more than willing to say goodbye to Cooper. Annie and Evina are quicker and have a better looking shot. They both seem like better team players than Cooper. I wish her luck at USC, but I think Annie and Evina are better.

Green continues to be aggressive and deliver in games. Her minutes should increase as the year goes on, and she'll be an anchor next year, hopefully, to off set the departure of mercedes, which will be a huge loss. I especially like how mobile she is on offense and defense.

Again, Rennia needs to model her game after Jamie's imo. She will play the stretch 4 next year (I think), and so will be a major match up nightmare for many teams.
 
#22

Undercovervol

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#22
Possible starting five next year:
Annie, point
Evina, scoring guard
Rennia, wing
Green, 4
Kasi, five
On second thought, Rennia may not play the stretch four. Too early to say, I guess.
 
#23

FrozenLVFan

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#23
Great evaluation, madtown. I'd add that Harris may have improved as much as MeMe, she just started from a lower level. She hasn't played much, but she seems vastly improved over last year when she looked like a deer in the headlights.


Possible starting five next year:
Annie, point
Evina, scoring guard
Rennia, wing
Green, 4
Kasi, five
On second thought, Rennia may not play the stretch four. Too early to say, I guess.
Evina's passing and court vision make her our starting PG for 4 years.
 
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#25
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#25
Our next test is handling a top 10 program on their home floor.
The Texas game is SO important because of the confidence it gave our players. The Texas game has given this team a new mentality that they CAN play. It's no longer just in their mind as a hypothesis, it's absolute.
Thats how the Notre Dame run over the past decade started. Confidence breeds confidence and swagger and that has been missing from the team for a few years. I also agree that a loss to a good team might be a real good thing in the long run however, if they run the regular season table, I can't see that as being bad either.
 
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