Coaching Search- The Reality

[OldNSlow]

I just posted this in another thread and wanted to share my thoughts so I gave it its own thread:

For those of you calling for coaches with no head coaching experience or Power 5 experience as a head coach here are some facts to chew on.

This is a beast. This will require the best that have proven they can handle a job like Tennessee. Coaches that have been power 5 and failed should not be considered. This is not the basketball landscape that it was when Pat was hired. Things have changed and changed a lot.

I think if the truth is known, whats happened here is easy to see. The coaches did a pretty good job recruiting top kids, but failed at being able to handle all the egos. This is or could be the biggest thing a top program has to deal with when getting high profile athletes and parents. I say parents because thats part of the package, as it was not in the days of Pats reign. Coach would have pulled her hair out dealing with some of these kids and parents. Ill bet if you ask Holly or her assistants they would echo this or any other high level programs coach. Just look at the world we live in now and tell me I am wrong.

As far as to say this coach has won at mid major and been successful and we should hire them, well I have said before at this point in the Lady Vols history we do not have the time nor the patience to train a coach. The fan base wont let that happen, not can the program sustain another few years of trying to get it right. We must have a proven coach who has already been through the process and proven they can do what needs to be done here at this level, and the ability to get this done in a couple three years. Its what we demand.

So where does that leave us with choices? Ask yourself what you would do given this large looming task. Hire a mid major coach? Hire someone with no experience as a head coach? Hire an assistant? I see lots of names thrown out since CHW was fired. I wonder how many know how things work behind the scenes to put a team on the floor that will make our fan base happy? Some say only hire a woman. No men. How sexist. Also how stupid to limit our great tradition that we want back to its glory that we should take such a close minded look at a coaching search based on anything but who would be the best candidate to restore this once great program to its rightful spot in this great sport we love so much.

With that being said, if we get the right person, expect turnover. Its coming and coming soon. This is the by product of what you have seen publicly, behind the scenes and on the court. Change is a awesome thing. Change is also something that people dont adapt to well. Look no further than this very message board. Gotta have a coach from " the tree" or a "female" only coach. Change is coming Lady Vol fans, lets just hope the Phillip Fulmer is smart enough to understand this hire might be his biggest.

 

[mcannon1]

Amen. Hire the best available proven coach. With the talent TN has, it shouldn't take long to be back in the final four.

 

[T_Vol376]

Swing for the fences....

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

I just posted this in another thread and wanted to share my thoughts so I gave it its own thread:

For those of you calling for coaches with no head coaching experience or Power 5 experience as a head coach here are some facts to chew on.

This is a beast. This will require the best that have proven they can handle a job like Tennessee. Coaches that have been power 5 and failed should not be considered. This is not the basketball landscape that it was when Pat was hired. Things have changed and changed a lot.

I think if the truth is known, whats happened here is easy to see. The coaches did a pretty good job recruiting top kids, but failed at being able to handle all the egos. This is or could be the biggest thing a top program has to deal with when getting high profile athletes and parents. I say parents because thats part of the package, as it was not in the days of Pats reign. Coach would have pulled her hair out dealing with some of these kids and parents. Ill bet if you ask Holly or her assistants they would echo this or any other high level programs coach. Just look at the world we live in now and tell me I am wrong.

As far as to say this coach has won at mid major and been successful and we should hire them, well I have said before at this point in the Lady Vols history we do not have the time nor the patience to train a coach. The fan base wont let that happen, not can the program sustain another few years of trying to get it right. We must have a proven coach who has already been through the process and proven they can do what needs to be done here at this level, and the ability to get this done in a couple three years. Its what we demand.

So where does that leave us with choices? Ask yourself what you would do given this large looming task. Hire a mid major coach? Hire someone with no experience as a head coach? Hire an assistant? I see lots of names thrown out since CHW was fired. I wonder how many know how things work behind the scenes to put a team on the floor that will make our fan base happy? Some say only hire a woman. No men. How sexist. Also how stupid to limit our great tradition that we want back to its glory that we should take such a close minded look at a coaching search based on anything but who would be the best candidate to restore this once great program to its rightful spot in this great sport we love so much.

With that being said, if we get the right person, expect turnover. Its coming and coming soon. This is the by product of what you have seen publicly, behind the scenes and on the court. Change is a awesome thing. Change is also something that people dont adapt to well. Look no further than this very message board. Gotta have a coach from " the tree" or a "female" only coach. Change is coming Lady Vol fans, lets just hope the Phillip Fulmer is smart enough to understand this hire might be his biggest.

Tennessee has the cash to always go for the homerun hire

 

[bobkitten]

I certainly agree with you regarding players’ and parents’ egos. The problem with choosing all star players is they are accustomed to being treated a certain way. Usually they come from high schools where they are the Big Thing, and many have bought into that. Their parents have been accommodated, too, and many think their daughters will play pro ball. Nothing can get in the way!

Have you noticed how few of them, when interviewed, deflect praise to their teammates, and how many of them don’t? Me, me, me!

The LVs seem to recruit solidly middle and upper middle class girls— those who have had the time and resources for training camps and AAU travel teams. Whose parents follow them around, soothing the bumps and bruises of the real world. They come to UT expecting to be queen, and yet most of their teammates expect the same. And they don’t know how to \ havent had to take direction or fit in with the others. Back that up with parents ever-ready to defend their daughters’ “rightful” places in the world!

As a teacher for 41 years, I saw this play out in much smaller scale. Luckily I taught children from poorer families, most of whom basically just wanted an opportunity. Few had the expectation that the world would revolve around their kids. They fought for their kids AFTER the fact, rather than before.

In saying all this, I make a poor attempt to point out the change for coaches in the last 20-40 years. Tennessee needs coaches who are mindful and proactive about the prevailing attitudes and expectations that come along with these recruits, and are prepared to handle for the benefit and discipline of the team, to shape the team into a team, rather than 5 all-stars who showed up.

 

[cwbytruckers]

I was thinking about male coaches who are no longer in the game or had some rough patches with the media. Rick Petino came to mind. Would someone like him but not actually him of course be more valuable than an up and comer?

 

[IPleadInsanity]

I think the list should be easy to assemble.

Multiple final 4 appearances and wants the job, absolutely no recruiting or pay off.

 

[Amb3096]

I certainly agree with you regarding players’ and parents’ egos. The problem with choosing all star players is they are accustomed to being treated a certain way. Usually they come from high schools where they are the Big Thing, and many have bought into that. Their parents have been accommodated, too, and many think their daughters will play pro ball. Nothing can get in the way!

Have you noticed how few of them, when interviewed, deflect praise to their teammates, and how many of them don’t? Me, me, me!

The LVs seem to recruit solidly middle and upper middle class girls— those who have had the time and resources for training camps and AAU travel teams. Whose parents follow them around, soothing the bumps and bruises of the real world. They come to UT expecting to be queen, and yet most of their teammates expect the same. And they don’t know how to \ havent had to take direction or fit in with the others. Back that up with parents ever-ready to defend their daughters’ “rightful” places in the world!

As a teacher for 41 years, I saw this play out in much smaller scale. Luckily I taught children from poorer families, most of whom basically just wanted an opportunity. Few had the expectation that the world would revolve around their kids. They fought for their kids AFTER the fact, rather than before.

In saying all this, I make a poor attempt to point out the change for coaches in the last 20-40 years. Tennessee needs coaches who are mindful and proactive about the prevailing attitudes and expectations that come along with these recruits, and are prepared to handle for the benefit and discipline of the team, to shape the team into a team, rather than 5 all-stars who showed up.

I think a mix of Divas and Saints can work. For every Diamond, there needs to be an Andraya for balance. I don't believe the issue is as much to do with the means they grew up with, but their disposition. Take a player like Napheesa Collier who looks like she had a nice life growing up. But she is the consummate "team first" player, even though she's the best one on the team. They need those kinds of players to lead. It's ok to have your Diamonds and Evinas, but there has to be someone to keep them in check...like how Anosike's relationship was like with Candace. I don't think this year's roster had that balance, and that was one of the problems.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

You heard the comments from Louisville AD about not going to be able to match Jeff Wals offeror's.

I think they already know he's gone. Must have already been some preliminary chats made.

Fulmer will invest the money knowing he will get it back in ticket sales and licensing apparel, etc.

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

You heard the comments from Louisville AD about not going to be able to match Jeff Wals offeror's.

I think they already know he's gone. Must have already been some preliminary chats made.

Fulmer will invest the money knowing he will get it back in ticket sales and licensing apparel, etc.

I think Jeff Walz would make LadyVols basketball cool once again and Thompson-Boling Arena would be packed once again for LadyVols games.

 

[savannahfan]

What you and others are actually saying is that a prospect's ability to "play" women's basketball (or for that matter any sport male or female) as little more importance than their psychological profile and/or how they have been parented? Then, how they would fit into the way you expect a prospect to work in your system.
I think most really good coaches have nearly always used this approach. As it has related to UT's recent past, not so much. I think most of the recruiting effort has been toward "playing ability" and not the whole picture. "Fitting in" is very important in any endeavor that requires more than one person. Even in the military you are made to fit in to the "team" or you are gone (now days).
Where I am going with this is a coach at any level that is successful recruits other than just good players, they recruit people to fit their systems. So mid-major, small college, pro makes no difference, the way I see it, if they are a successful.

Now, as to a coach's ability to "handle the load" at UT?? This is a whole nother question. A really big one for Fulmer.

Hiring an "unproven" person i.e., Lawson, or other past players, this is another question....

 

[Darth_Vol]

I think Jeff Walz would make LadyVols basketball cool once again and Thompson-Boling Arena would be packed once again for LadyVols games.

Walz could turn Knoxville into UConn south. No other potential candidate has that ceiling IMO...

 

[cwbytruckers]

I just want the Lady Vols to be a 30 win team without a doubt before season starts every year. I want us to look like we know what an offensive system is. And i want us to know hiw to defend without looking like a statue.

 

[NCVol1998]

The football hire was the most important hire. This hire is important but not the most important,not even close.

 

[cwbytruckers]

The football hire was the most important hire. This hire is important but not the most important,not even close.

Now that the football hure has been made this actually is the most important hire. Lady Vols name is iconic. Lady Vols and college basketball go hand in hand. Nit seeing that orange and blue in the final four has got to change. If they hire an up and comer lets hope its a diamond in the rough miracle.

 

[madtownvol]

I just posted this in another thread and wanted to share my thoughts so I gave it its own thread:

So where does that leave us with choices? Ask yourself what you would do given this large looming task. Hire a mid major coach? Hire someone with no experience as a head coach? Hire an assistant? I see lots of names thrown out since CHW was fired. I wonder how many know how things work behind the scenes to put a team on the floor that will make our fan base happy? Some say only hire a woman. No men. How sexist. Also how stupid to limit our great tradition that we want back to its glory that we should take such a close minded look at a coaching search based on anything but who would be the best candidate to restore this once great program to its rightful spot in this great sport we love so much.

The problem is that you can't know the "best candidate" before they are on the job. A classic example, Gail G. when at Duke looked like the perfect person to restore Texas to its glory days; that did not work out. I am not sure that there was unanimous consensus that Rick Barnes was the best choice for UT when he was hired.

Being a head coach involves a broad range o skills from X and O acumen, to the people skills need to manage staff and people, to being a motivator, to negotiating media and alumni, to recruiting skills and building relationships in different recruiting networks. You can't give someone a test that determines "okay, you have the highest score and so you are clearly best qualified."

Any HC hire requires judgment about the mix of attributes someone brings to the party. Maybe a lack of head coaching experience is off set by the candidate having a brilliant basketball mind and track record of being a great recruiter (as seems to be the case for Ivey at ND).

Maybe an AD believes a woman HC might have some subtle advantages in recruiting and on balance in choosing between a man and woman who have comparable qualifications, that assumptions about recruiting becomes an edge for the woman candidate.

Maybe some, like Muffet McGraw, argue that until women are giving an equal opportunity to compete for coaching jobs on the men's side, some priority should be given to women candidates.

This article on McGraw's viewpoint is an interesting read on the gender parity issue as it pertains to coaching positions:

McGraw is done hiring men

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

The problem is that you can't know the "best candidate" before they are on the job. A classic example, Gail G. when at Duke looked like the perfect person to restore Texas to its glory days; that did not work out. I am not sure that there was unanimous consensus that Rick Barnes was the best choice for UT when he was hired.

Being a head coach involves a broad range o skills from X and O acumen, to the people skills need to manage staff and people, to being a motivator, to negotiating media and alumni, to recruiting skills and building relationships in different recruiting networks. You can't give someone a test,the determine okay, you have the highest score and so you are best qualified.

Any HC hire requires judgment about the mix of attributes someone brings to the party. Maybe a lack of head coaching experience is off set by the candidate having a brilliant basketball mind and track record of being a great recruiter (as seems to be the case for Ivey at ND).

Maybe an AD believes a woman HC might have some subtle advantages in recruiting and on balance in choosing between a man and woman who have comparable qualifications, that assumptions about recruiting becomes an edge for the woman candidate.

Maybe some, like Muffet McGraw, argue that until women are giving an equal opportunity to compete for coaching jobs on the men's side, some priority should be given to women candidates.

This article on Mcgraw's viewpoint is a pretty read on the gender parity issue as it pertains to coaching positions:

McGraw is done hiring men

Wow,Muffet is a sexist

 

[madtownvol]

Wow,Muffet is a sexist

Didn't bother to read the article explaining her rationales did you?

Oh well, closed minds tend to stay that way.

 

[leejoek]

I think a mix of Divas and Saints can work. For every Diamond, there needs to be an Andraya for balance. I don't believe the issue is as much to do with the means they grew up with, but their disposition. Take a player like Napheesa Collier who looks like she had a nice life growing up. But she is the consummate "team first" player, even though she's the best one on the team. They need those kinds of players to lead. It's ok to have your Diamonds and Evinas, but there has to be someone to keep them in check...like how Anosike's relationship was like with Candace. I don't think this year's roster had that balance, and that was one of the problems.

Both Diamond and her mom played sports for Tennessee. Shame on our fans for blaming Diamond.

 

[Creekdog]

The problem is that you can't know the "best candidate" before they are on the job. A classic example, Gail G. when at Duke looked like the perfect person to restore Texas to its glory days; that did not work out. I am not sure that there was unanimous consensus that Rick Barnes was the best choice for UT when he was hired.

Being a head coach involves a broad range o skills from X and O acumen, to the people skills need to manage staff and people, to being a motivator, to negotiating media and alumni, to recruiting skills and building relationships in different recruiting networks. You can't give someone a test that determines "okay, you have the highest score and so you are clearly best qualified."

Any HC hire requires judgment about the mix of attributes someone brings to the party. Maybe a lack of head coaching experience is off set by the candidate having a brilliant basketball mind and track record of being a great recruiter (as seems to be the case for Ivey at ND).

Maybe an AD believes a woman HC might have some subtle advantages in recruiting and on balance in choosing between a man and woman who have comparable qualifications, that assumptions about recruiting becomes an edge for the woman candidate.

Maybe some, like Muffet McGraw, argue that until women are giving an equal opportunity to compete for coaching jobs on the men's side, some priority should be given to women candidates.

This article on McGraw's viewpoint is an interesting read on the gender parity issue as it pertains to coaching positions:

McGraw is done hiring men

Nice read.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I just posted this in another thread and wanted to share my thoughts so I gave it its own thread:

For those of you calling for coaches with no head coaching experience or Power 5 experience as a head coach here are some facts to chew on.

This is a beast. This will require the best that have proven they can handle a job like Tennessee. . .

Maybe
Or maybe it will take a "Dorothy",,,who doesn't know "fear the wizard"

high profile athletes and parents.

I usually tell all of my parents,,,"you cannot affect how much I play your daughter, but you can affect, how much I don't".

if we get the right person, expect turnover.

Yes and less turnovers,,,timely timeouts,,more emphasis on skills development,,,a more confident image at the HC spot,,

and, actually/potentially less turnover...A good leader can get something out of the same person that a less-influential leader can't

Change is coming Lady Vol fans, lets just hope the Phillip Fulmer is smart enough to understand this hire might be his biggest.

It will be the higest profile because it is the most recent issue to solve.

Men's FB,,on its way
Men's BB,,more than on its way
Women's BB,,
I can be there tomorrow


Per the red

 

[volman128]

Wow,Muffet is a sexist

If Muffet is a sexist, I guess every single men's basketball coach is, because I don't see any women assistant coaches on the men's side. Do you?

 

[cutiepie5]

I just posted this in another thread and wanted to share my thoughts so I gave it its own thread:

For those of you calling for coaches with no head coaching experience or Power 5 experience as a head coach here are some facts to chew on.

This is a beast. This will require the best that have proven they can handle a job like Tennessee. Coaches that have been power 5 and failed should not be considered. This is not the basketball landscape that it was when Pat was hired. Things have changed and changed a lot.

I think if the truth is known, whats happened here is easy to see. The coaches did a pretty good job recruiting top kids, but failed at being able to handle all the egos. This is or could be the biggest thing a top program has to deal with when getting high profile athletes and parents. I say parents because thats part of the package, as it was not in the days of Pats reign. Coach would have pulled her hair out dealing with some of these kids and parents. Ill bet if you ask Holly or her assistants they would echo this or any other high level programs coach. Just look at the world we live in now and tell me I am wrong.

As far as to say this coach has won at mid major and been successful and we should hire them, well I have said before at this point in the Lady Vols history we do not have the time nor the patience to train a coach. The fan base wont let that happen, not can the program sustain another few years of trying to get it right. We must have a proven coach who has already been through the process and proven they can do what needs to be done here at this level, and the ability to get this done in a couple three years. Its what we demand.

So where does that leave us with choices? Ask yourself what you would do given this large looming task. Hire a mid major coach? Hire someone with no experience as a head coach? Hire an assistant? I see lots of names thrown out since CHW was fired. I wonder how many know how things work behind the scenes to put a team on the floor that will make our fan base happy? Some say only hire a woman. No men. How sexist. Also how stupid to limit our great tradition that we want back to its glory that we should take such a close minded look at a coaching search based on anything but who would be the best candidate to restore this once great program to its rightful spot in this great sport we love so much.

With that being said, if we get the right person, expect turnover. Its coming and coming soon. This is the by product of what you have seen publicly, behind the scenes and on the court. Change is a awesome thing. Change is also something that people dont adapt to well. Look no further than this very message board. Gotta have a coach from " the tree" or a "female" only coach. Change is coming Lady Vol fans, lets just hope the Phillip Fulmer is smart enough to understand this hire might be his biggest.

Awesome post and +100!!!

 

[rebelman25]

I think Jeff Walz would make LadyVols basketball cool once again and Thompson-Boling Arena would be packed once again for LadyVols games.

I think he would do the same thing! I would like to see UT lead the nation in attendance again. I have lived in Florida for the past 33 years but still tear up when I watch UT (In any sport), in an away game and see all of the orange in the stands. I live pretty close to Tampa and the Outback Bowl loves them because they know that Tennessee travels well. Sorry I got off the subject but I hope he gets interviewed.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I just hope it is a broad search and Fulmer doesn't feel locked into hiring someone with ties to Tennessee (Kellie Jolly-Harper) or a woman. I also hope that he has the freedom to make a fair market value offer.