Coaching--really?

[MikeVol44]

Just a few quick comments to all of you blaming our coaches for our poor performances:

1. Scott Frost has been a HC and led UCF to a 19-7 record over 2 years--going 6-7 in his first year and 13-0 in his second.
2. Frost has Nebraska at 2-6 after beginning 0-6-and playing a MUCH easier schedule than UT.

Has Frost--who is in his 3rd year as a HC--suddenly lost his knowledge and ability to coach FB?
Was Nebraska's 0-6 start all because he was just too stupid to know how to adjust and get better performances from his players?
Is Nebraska losing because Frost and his coaches are just too dumb to make proper in-game adjustments?

Of course the answer is a RESOUNDING NO to all of those questions.

Frost and crew just do not have the players to compete with other programs--YET.

DITTO for CJP and crew....

so please quit showing your absolute and unquestionable ignorance by saying that we have good enough talent on the field now to compete in the ELITE conference in all of NCAA football. Three of our five losses have come to #1, #6, and #13 teams in the nation.

It is too soon to think that COACHING is the problem--JUST ASK SCOTT FROST and NEBRASKA. At least their fans have some reasonable expectations and average football IQ.

 

[Rebel VOL]

We are just tired of sucking, our excuse has always been next year

 

[VolGirl1126]

Logic? That is unusual around here sometimes.

 

[Boogievol]

I don't see them being much better next year, at least not on defense. This is probably a four year turn around.

 

[Gatornator]

Scott Frost may actually be seriously overrated. UCF was 9-4 in 2014 before they had the 2015 0-12 season. Also, UCF continues to be doing just fine without Frost. This suggests that UCF was not that big of a rebuild, and that he partly lucked out with a good roster, a roster that is still on a winning streak this season without him.

The fact that he went 2-6 so far is not just due to his team, it is also most certainly due to coaching. So I would not be too keen on comparing JP to Frost.

 

[volfannbama]

If frost were undefeated would that somehow effect cjp?

 

[HonestVol24]

“I can’t coach bad football players” nick saban

Neither can cjp

 

[Volinnooga]

I don't really see that whatever Frost has done has any bearing on our situation.

 

[Rooster1]

“I can’t coach bad football players” nick saban

Neither can cjp

9 mos. ago this board literally laid all problems on Jones, it wasn't the talent.....remember? Countless threads on how UT had recruited so well and HAD the talent to compete if just not for Jones. Now the script flips, no talent left by Jones, no development etc. CJP inherited the debacle. Three to four years to fix...etc...wow.

 

[sameolvol]

Just a few quick comments to all of you blaming our coaches for our poor performances:

1. Scott Frost has been a HC and led UCF to a 19-7 record over 2 years--going 6-7 in his first year and 13-0 in his second.
2. Frost has Nebraska at 2-6 after beginning 0-6-and playing a MUCH easier schedule than UT.

Has Frost--who is in his 3rd year as a HC--suddenly lost his knowledge and ability to coach FB?
Was Nebraska's 0-6 start all because he was just too stupid to know how to adjust and get better performances from his players?
Is Nebraska losing because Frost and his coaches are just too dumb to make proper in-game adjustments?

Of course the answer is a RESOUNDING NO to all of those questions.

Frost and crew just do not have the players to compete with other programs--YET.

DITTO for CJP and crew....

so please quit showing your absolute and unquestionable ignorance by saying that we have good enough talent on the field now to compete in the ELITE conference in all of NCAA football. Three of our five losses have come to #1, #6, and #13 teams in the nation.

It is too soon to think that COACHING is the problem--JUST ASK SCOTT FROST and NEBRASKA. At least their fans have some reasonable expectations and average football IQ.

You're right alright, OP. I seriously doubt you're as old as am I, but you're displaying lots of wisdom in restating the even older (than me) adage "Rome wasn't built in a day." What I witnessed at Williams Bryce the other night...regarding our Vols...was a group of young men who gave it all they had for sixty full minutes, and they left it all out on the field. Additionally, the play calling was sound and, as the game rolled on, an ever-growing lack of speed was becoming more evident to not finishing plays, as opposed to lack of precognition as to how the plays were set up and developing. Although it was, to many on this board, way back in the dark ages, I played a little over seven years of football and coached little fellas' for a couple of leagues out in California. I know that doesn't qualify me as any sort of coaching guru, but I think you get my drift that I have a relatively decent grasp of the game from a teaching perspective. Without CJP, et al, coaching up what he's got, against a USCe team that many (including myself) earlier perceived to be lightly talented and somewhat under-coached, I discovered they've got a pretty good program running down there in Columbia, too. There's nearly equal talent to ours down there (temporarily, I think), but the caveat involved in that horrid fourth quarter is the lack of quality of depth we have as compared to theirs. Recruiting will take care of that. Now, as for those who've already grown impatient about our beloved Vols' current lack of any sort of championship look. Let's be patient with them too. "Life's like a box of chocolates" as ol' Forrest Gump's been so oft' quoted, could maybe followed by "...but if you go through enough of those boxes of chocolates, you might start picking up on which shade and shape of chocolates are in which slots in those boxes." I'm looking for a very sweet future in Big Orange Country.

It's time for us all to share peace and love with one another. The world's looking ugly right now, and we all know...deep in our hearts...that what really rules is the Golden Rule.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

OP, you answered your own question. The difference is that Husker fans can look at what Frost did at UF and have some factual basis to believe that the man knows what he's doing. We can hope that some Saban, Richt, Jimbo rubbed off on CJP but that's all we can do.

 

[DC_Vol]

9 mos. ago this board literally laid all problems on Jones, it wasn't the talent.....remember? Countless threads on how UT had recruited so well and HAD the talent to compete if just not for Jones. Now the script flips, no talent left by Jones, no development etc. CJP inherited the debacle. Three to four years to fix...etc...wow.

I agree with this. I do, however, think it’s fairly obvious now that the talent on the roster has been severely underdeveloped.

I expected a much larger improvement in performance in CJP’s Year 1. I was probably naive to assume that.

 

[MikeVol44]

Scott Frost may actually be seriously overrated. UCF was 9-4 in 2014 before they had the 2015 0-12 season. Also, UCF continues to be doing just fine without Frost. This suggests that UCF was not that big of a rebuild, and that he partly lucked out with a good roster, a roster that is still on a winning streak this season without him.

The fact that he went 2-6 so far is not just due to his team, it is also most certainly due to coaching. So I would not be too keen on comparing JP to Frost.

UCF's 2014 team had 4 SR WR, 4 SR LBs, 4 SR DL, etc....etc...etc....

And they beat Bethune-Cookman, Houston, Tulane, SMU, Brigham Young, Temple, Tulsa, and East Carolina.
Their BEST win was against USF...16-0.

That's hardly elite competition.

They lost to Penn State, Missouri, Connecticut, and NC State--basically EVERY power 5 conference opponent.

And they failed to win anything the following year. So Frost came in and had to completely replace the roster with his recruits--and teach them to win. Which he did--and they're winning this year with HIS RECRUITS! So the talent HE RECRUITED is sustaining them this year and will next year, too. But watch what happens in 2020 at UCF. They'll be back to 7-5 or 8-4 with that pansy of a schedule they play.


Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Scott Frost may actually be seriously overrated. UCF was 9-4 in 2014 before they had the 2015 0-12 season. Also, UCF continues to be doing just fine without Frost. This suggests that UCF was not that big of a rebuild, and that he partly lucked out with a good roster, a roster that is still on a winning streak this season without him.

The fact that he went 2-6 so far is not just due to his team, it is also most certainly due to coaching. So I would not be too keen on comparing JP to Frost.

I am not so sure about that. Keep in mind UCF had their first undefeated regular season under Frost last year. They Also beat a 10-4 Auburn squad that beat Alabama in the iron bowl last year too. UCF’s schedule is typically trash but an undefeated season is still impressive regardless.

 

[AndyMizunogolfer]

9 mos. ago this board literally laid all problems on Jones, it wasn't the talent.....remember? Countless threads on how UT had recruited so well and HAD the talent to compete if just not for Jones. Now the script flips, no talent left by Jones, no development etc. CJP inherited the debacle. Three to four years to fix...etc...wow.

You have to give a HC a full recruiting cycle. Jones was given the full cycle and still never really got it done. He could have easily put UF, Vandy, SC in the cellar but never did. Looking back at the talent he had in 15/16 one has to wonder what exactly the issue was. Same thing for Dooley. We put enough talent in the NFL to be a top 10 program multiple years since 2008.

 

[MikeVol44]

I am not so sure about that. Keep in mind UCF had their first undefeated regular season under Frost last year. They Also beat a 10-4 Auburn squad that beat Alabama in the iron bowl last year too. UCF’s schedule is typically trash but an undefeated season is still impressive regardless.

Thanks...2014's quality win was against USF....2017's quality was undefeated and beating AUBURN....soundly...with his own recruits.

 

[MikeVol44]

I don't really see that whatever Frost has done has any bearing on our situation.

Nebraska's deficiencies are not with their coach--it is with a lack of talent.

Same for Tennessee....this problem only gets fixed with recruiting better talent.

People who actually know anything about FOOTBALL get that fact.....people who don't post what you did.

 

[njvols]

9 mos. ago this board literally laid all problems on Jones, it wasn't the talent.....remember? Countless threads on how UT had recruited so well and HAD the talent to compete if just not for Jones. Now the script flips, no talent left by Jones, no development etc. CJP inherited the debacle. Three to four years to fix...etc...wow.

I guess I'd ask; Since our team has virtually the same personnel as last year, would you feel more comfortable with Butch and last years team or Pruitt and this years team? I think players have gotten better in most every position group from last year. That's coaching. But, these players have ceilings, so that's why it's gonna take some time with recruiting.

Additionally, CBJ recruiting as a whole wasn't bad, but player development and defect rate was pretty high, whereas, Pruitt, so far has shown they can coach up players, and none have left the team. Can't underestimate importance of players staying in the program for four years vs constant churning of highly touted players who leave after one or two years under CBJ. Kentucky, this year, is a good example of this.

 

[Tennman47]

Aren't you glad we did not get Tee Martin. Some people were suggesting.

 

[Volinnooga]

Nebraska's deficiencies are not with their coach--it is with a lack of talent.

Same for Tennessee....this problem only gets fixed with recruiting better talent.

People who actually know anything about FOOTBALL get that fact.....people who don't post what you did.

Thanks. The fact that they play none of the same teams, play a completely different scheme and play in a much weaker conference have no bearing on anything. And you are comparing a guy with a record as a head coach (Frost) with a guy who has never been a college head coach (Pruitt). Perhps one day I'll understand football as well as you do.

 

[MikeVol44]

Thanks Einstein. The fact that they play none of the same teams, play a completely different scheme and play in a much weaker conference have no bearing on anything.

And, once again--you missed the point....

IF you don't have the players comparable to the talent of the other teams in your conference--YOU will not WIN!

FROST has PROVEN that he is a good coach.....He's PROVEN that he can build a team from nothing and coach them to win.
His lack of success so far at Nebraska says NOTHING about his ability to coach and EVERYTHING about the lack of talent on the current roster.

Same applies for CJP......except he hasn't been a head coach. WE just don't have talent good enough to compete in the SEC--YET.

I just don't see why you struggle so much with those simple facts....You must be a Red Bank graduate--or a democrat.....LOL

 

[McDad]

And, once again--you missed the point....

IF you don't have the players comparable to the talent of the other teams in your conference--YOU will not WIN!

FROST has PROVEN that he is a good coach.....He's PROVEN that he can build a team from nothing and coach them to win.
His lack of success so far at Nebraska says NOTHING about his ability to coach and EVERYTHING about the lack of talent on the current roster.

Same applies for CJP......except he hasn't been a head coach. WE just don't have talent good enough to compete in the SEC--YET.

I just don't see why you struggle so much with those simple facts....You must be a Red Bank graduate--or a democrat.....LOL

Do you differentiate between "talent" and "developed talent"?

 

[Volinnooga]

And, once again--you missed the point....

IF you don't have the players comparable to the talent of the other teams in your conference--YOU will not WIN!

FROST has PROVEN that he is a good coach.....He's PROVEN that he can build a team from nothing and coach them to win.
His lack of success so far at Nebraska says NOTHING about his ability to coach and EVERYTHING about the lack of talent on the current roster.

Same applies for CJP......except he hasn't been a head coach. WE just don't have talent good enough to compete in the SEC--YET.

I just don't see why you struggle so much with those simple facts....You must be a Red Bank graduate--or a democrat.....LOL

Soddy

 

[volfan411]

Just a few quick comments to all of you blaming our coaches for our poor performances:

1. Scott Frost has been a HC and led UCF to a 19-7 record over 2 years--going 6-7 in his first year and 13-0 in his second.
2. Frost has Nebraska at 2-6 after beginning 0-6-and playing a MUCH easier schedule than UT.

Has Frost--who is in his 3rd year as a HC--suddenly lost his knowledge and ability to coach FB?
Was Nebraska's 0-6 start all because he was just too stupid to know how to adjust and get better performances from his players?
Is Nebraska losing because Frost and his coaches are just too dumb to make proper in-game adjustments?

Of course the answer is a RESOUNDING NO to all of those questions.

Frost and crew just do not have the players to compete with other programs--YET.

DITTO for CJP and crew....

so please quit showing your absolute and unquestionable ignorance by saying that we have good enough talent on the field now to compete in the ELITE conference in all of NCAA football. Three of our five losses have come to #1, #6, and #13 teams in the nation.

It is too soon to think that COACHING is the problem--JUST ASK SCOTT FROST and NEBRASKA. At least their fans have some reasonable expectations and average football IQ.

So what you are saying is that it was the competition and the players fault that Butch Jones failed as a coach?

 

[njvols]

You have to give a HC a full recruiting cycle. Jones was given the full cycle and still never really got it done. He could have easily put UF, Vandy, SC in the cellar but never did. Looking back at the talent he had in 15/16 one has to wonder what exactly the issue was. Same thing for Dooley. We put enough talent in the NFL to be a top 10 program multiple years since 2008.

I think it also has to do with what identity you have to compete in SEC. CBJ identity was finesse on offense and controlling on D (not letting DC's do their thing). With TN resources, I'd almost argue that even an average coach could succeed if they had the right identity for the team. Les Miles, who still doesn't have a job, was able to keep things rolling at a winning clip for many years because his identity was trench warfare, power football and they recruited towards it.