Coach Change Chaos!

#26

Volprofch05

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#26
Well, let's divide that into four categories:

Some of these retired. A fella's allowed to retire, right? Shouldn't be called a lack of loyalty, he's just reached the end of his career. It happens.

Some of these were let go. Can't blame a guy for lack of loyalty if he was asked to leave. Now, you could say the university showed a lack of loyalty, and I would agree with you. But on the other hand, maybe it wasn't a lack of loyalty so much as broken trust. I mean, Jeremy Pruitt was one of those 60 coaches who left one of those 60 schools, right? I wouldn't call it a lack of loyalty that caused that decision.

And then there are the fellas who voluntarily left one job to go find another. But a significant number of these were being offered a step up, to head coach from coordinator. Or to head coach of Power 5 from a Group of 5 job. These are promotions, and should be encouraged, right? It's not really a lack of loyalty when you accept a promotion and leave your old job.

Finally, there are guys who made a lateral move. They left a head coach position at one school to be head coach at another school at the same level of the sport (Power 5 to Power 5, or G5 to G5). THIS is the group you can point at and say, "Loyalty issues!"

But even there, would you seriously begrudge a guy who leaves, say, Vandy, to get a job at a place like Penn State? Or a guy who leaves a place like Rutgers to go to Bama? [the latter is fictional, but the first example really happened recently] Those may be "peer to peer" moves, but they're really promotions, too.

In fact, the landscape isn't really totally flat anywhere. Even a move from, say, Notre Dame to LSU, might be viewed by some as a step up. Brian Kelly certainly seems to think it was. Or ask Lane Kiffin if he thinks a move from Tennessee to USC is a move to higher ground.

Now, we (most of us, anyway) would not agree with Kiffin on that score. But that's another part of the complexity of this kind of loyalty-shaming: the landscape looks different depending on your perspective. Not only is there no flat terrain, the terrain doesn't even flow the same way for everyone, it's different for each of us.

In other words, the number 60 is kind of meaningless. You have to break it down and see what it consists of. And once you start breaking it down, it quickly becomes obvious that loyalty/disloyalty is far from the only dynamic involved. In fact, if one had to call it just one thing, one would probably call it career progression more than anything else.

But I do agree with you that's a relatively high volume of moves compared to most two-year periods. Would be interesting to know what the average 2-year-period has.
Excellent points. On the loyalty front I'll add that most people have a reasonable amount of control over where they would like to live, and perhaps where they work. However, coaches, and especially those early in their careers, have very limited options and have to go where the opportunity is. Plus, plenty of colleges are not in locations that are, shall we say, ideal. If someone proves themself and becomes a hot commodity, I can't begrudge them for taking advantage of options that were not available when they were getting started.
 
#28

savannahfan

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#28
There are 130 Teams in Division 1 FBS Football. — There have been 60 (SIXTY!) Coaching changes since December 2019 until December 2021. — Nearly HALF of all Division 1 FBS Football! — Some might not seem to matter, but some seem to matter A LOT! It’s even worse when you put it on paper! So, here we go:

Akron; Appalachian St ; Arizona; Arkansas; Arkansas St; Auburn; Baylor; Boise St; Boston College; Colorado; Colorado St; Duke; Florida; Florida St; FAU; FIU; UCF; USF; Fresno St; GA Southern; Hawaii; Illinois, Louisiana; LSU; LA Tech, LA-Monroe; Marshall; Memphis; Michigan St; Missouri; Ole Miss; Mississippi St; Southern Miss; New Mexico; New Mexico St; Notre Dame; Oklahoma; ODU; Rutgers; San Diego St; South Alabama; USC; UNLV; South Carolina; SMU; Temple; Tennessee; Texas; TCU; Texas Tech; UTSA; Troy; UConn; UMass; Utah St; UVA; Virginia Tech; Vanderbilt; Washington; Washington St

Whether they were fired, went to another school - or just quit!

There is NO LOYALTY in college football anymore!
This list reminds me of the country song "I've been everywhere":)
 
#30

savannahfan

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#30
Spurrier said in retrospect after his career he thought a Head Coach should not stay at a place over 7 years. I am not sure his thinking whether it caused unnoticed apathy or what. There have been some if they had used this rule it may have helped.
Phil Fulmer first 7 years 1992 to 1999. If he left after 1999 he would have been wanted by almost everybody but when he finally left in 2008 nobody significant wanted him, a few bottom-dwellers like Kansas.
The 7-year itch, I guess.
Seems some in college football must have noticed how the Methodist Church (for one) tend to "refresh" their congregations every few years. It is practiced by the congregation of an individual church by the Baptist's and Church's of Christ. Lord!!!! Could you imagine a college football program that was managed by the "congregation"?? (hummmm seem to remember we came close a few years back when a attempted hiring was not popular, oh, and a recent firing or two)
 
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#31

savannahfan

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#31
One constant in coaching particularly football (college and NFL) is that it usually never ends well for the coach. Most coaches are either fired or asked to leave/retire. Not many leave on their own terms.
True, but in most cases they take a pretty good bottom line increase with them. (from the time they took the position til leaving)
 
#32

VolBricks

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#32
One of my son's is an engineer. He used to work for Eastman in Kingsport. He was offered a job with a company that offers a service where a big company needs help getting more profitable. There are breakdowns in their processes and procedures (losses). They hire my son's company to completely evaluate just "what's going on and how can we save money in how things are being done" to increased their bottom line (wins).

He spends weeks and weeks checking out how and what they are doing and finds ways to save millions of dollars and turn things around (more wins). By doing this, they are very happy and his employer is very happy and rewards him with a very large bonus. This looks very good on his resume' and he has just contributed to his own success and to the success of his client.

Now this is a tried and proven method of business, however, if he sucks at his job, costs the client even more money, can't save them anything, but screws up everything they are currently doing even worse, should he expect them to reward him handsomely for something he didn't achieve.

If you turn things around, we are going to pay you more and more and more and more.
If you simply suck at what you are doing, you are out of here.

People we have this thing completely backwards!
I have ben saying for years that a Head Coach should have a base salary something reasonable he can "live" on, say $1.5 million. Then have bonuses for team performance, you win the SEC east, extra $1 million, win the SEC, extra $2 million. Let the coaches "Earn" the money instead of giving it to them and have them let everybody down when their team does not perform.
 
#33

VolinMichigan

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#33
There are 130 Teams in Division 1 FBS Football. — There have been 60 (SIXTY!) Coaching changes since December 2019 until December 2021. — Nearly HALF of all Division 1 FBS Football! — Some might not seem to matter, but some seem to matter A LOT! It’s even worse when you put it on paper! So, here we go:

Akron; Appalachian St ; Arizona; Arkansas; Arkansas St; Auburn; Baylor; Boise St; Boston College; Colorado; Colorado St; Duke; Florida; Florida St; FAU; FIU; UCF; USF; Fresno St; GA Southern; Hawaii; Illinois, Louisiana; LSU; LA Tech, LA-Monroe; Marshall; Memphis; Michigan St; Missouri; Ole Miss; Mississippi St; Southern Miss; New Mexico; New Mexico St; Notre Dame; Oklahoma; ODU; Rutgers; San Diego St; South Alabama; USC; UNLV; South Carolina; SMU; Temple; Tennessee; Texas; TCU; Texas Tech; UTSA; Troy; UConn; UMass; Utah St; UVA; Virginia Tech; Vanderbilt; Washington; Washington St

Whether they were fired, went to another school - or just quit!

There is NO LOYALTY in college football anymore!
Ironic given the thoughts on players transferring freely. It’s amazing that people can support coaches leaving at the drop of a hat but how dare the players be able to do that.
 
#35

bigorangepoppa

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#35
I hope coach Heupel stays, but in the big picture, I changed jobs a few times in my working career. Either an opportunity to improve my earnings for the benefit of my family, or discontent at a company for whatever reason. I stayed at my last job 20 years then retired. A Fortune 500 company, paid good wages, good benefits package, provided an ability to enjoy a few things, but in all honesty, there were times I felt like moving on, not because I didn't like my job, but the ability to move up was very limited, and the boredom and staleness that sets in after a while. Glad I stayed, enjoying retirement they helped provide. All kinds of reasons people change jobs, but in today's environment, with the ridiculous money being thrown at coaches now, if Coach proves himself to be a winner in a few years, someone will try to poach him. The university will have to bite the bullet and pony up, but even that may not be what it takes if he is feeling burnt out.
 
#37

EverythingOrange

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#37
Absolutely UNCOUNTABLE!!!!!! My Point Exactly! No Loyalty between the School / Administration and the Coaches. No Loyalty between the Coaches and the School. No Loyalty between the Coaches and the Players (Behind closed doors). And No Loyalty between the the Players and the School (except for the recent NIL deals). --- Just think what would happen if Saban decided to coach at Texas, and then half of Alabama's team entered the "transfer portal" to Texas? (We should be so lucky) --- But What is a School / Team to do if that could happen? -- Absolute devistation! And there is nothing that the NCAA; The School; or the New Coach could do about it!
 
#38

chuck0303

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#38
Well, let's divide that into four categories:

Some of these retired. A fella's allowed to retire, right? Shouldn't be called a lack of loyalty, he's just reached the end of his career. It happens.

Some of these were let go. Can't blame a guy for lack of loyalty if he was asked to leave. Now, you could say the university showed a lack of loyalty, and I would agree with you. But on the other hand, maybe it wasn't a lack of loyalty so much as broken trust. I mean, Jeremy Pruitt was one of those 60 coaches who left one of those 60 schools, right? I wouldn't call it a lack of loyalty that caused that decision.

And then there are the fellas who voluntarily left one job to go find another. But a significant number of these were being offered a step up, to head coach from coordinator. Or to head coach of Power 5 from a Group of 5 job. These are promotions, and should be encouraged, right? It's not really a lack of loyalty when you accept a promotion and leave your old job.

Finally, there are guys who made a lateral move. They left a head coach position at one school to be head coach at another school at the same level of the sport (Power 5 to Power 5, or G5 to G5). THIS is the group you can point at and say, "Loyalty issues!"

But even there, would you seriously begrudge a guy who leaves, say, Vandy, to get a job at a place like Penn State? Or a guy who leaves a place like Rutgers to go to Bama? [the latter is fictional, but the first example really happened recently] Those may be "peer to peer" moves, but they're really promotions, too.

In fact, the landscape isn't really totally flat anywhere. Even a move from, say, Notre Dame to LSU, might be viewed by some as a step up. Brian Kelly certainly seems to think it was. Or ask Lane Kiffin if he thinks a move from Tennessee to USC is a move to higher ground.

Now, we (most of us, anyway) would not agree with Kiffin on that score. But that's another part of the complexity of this kind of loyalty-shaming: the landscape looks different depending on your perspective. Not only is there no flat terrain, the terrain doesn't even flow the same way for everyone, it's different for each of us.

In other words, the number 60 is kind of meaningless. You have to break it down and see what it consists of. And once you start breaking it down, it quickly becomes obvious that loyalty/disloyalty is far from the only dynamic involved. In fact, if one had to call it just one thing, one would probably call it career progression more than anything else.

But I do agree with you that's a relatively high volume of moves compared to most two-year periods. Would be interesting to know what the average 2-year-period has.
Not right, Aight! LOL.
 
#39

VegasBaby!

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#39
There are 130 Teams in Division 1 FBS Football. — There have been 60 (SIXTY!) Coaching changes since December 2019 until December 2021. — Nearly HALF of all Division 1 FBS Football! — Some might not seem to matter, but some seem to matter A LOT! It’s even worse when you put it on paper! So, here we go:

Akron; Appalachian St ; Arizona; Arkansas; Arkansas St; Auburn; Baylor; Boise St; Boston College; Colorado; Colorado St; Duke; Florida; Florida St; FAU; FIU; UCF; USF; Fresno St; GA Southern; Hawaii; Illinois, Louisiana; LSU; LA Tech, LA-Monroe; Marshall; Memphis; Michigan St; Missouri; Ole Miss; Mississippi St; Southern Miss; New Mexico; New Mexico St; Notre Dame; Oklahoma; ODU; Rutgers; San Diego St; South Alabama; USC; UNLV; South Carolina; SMU; Temple; Tennessee; Texas; TCU; Texas Tech; UTSA; Troy; UConn; UMass; Utah St; UVA; Virginia Tech; Vanderbilt; Washington; Washington St

Whether they were fired, went to another school - or just quit!

There is NO LOYALTY in college football anymore!
Using your numbers, that averages 30 changes per year, which is 23% of the 130 total. Also keep in mind, one firing or retirement = 2 changes.

Is a firing or retirement disloyalty? A retirement is not. A firing is frequently just unacceptable poor job performance. The university's chief executive 1st loyalty should be to the university. As for the voluntary departures, is your argument that your first employer is your last employer and career advancement thru job change is a disloyal act?
 
#40

EverythingOrange

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#40
Anybody can skew the statistics any way that they want to. --- It is what it is..... It's not even Bowl Season / The end of the year, yet. -- Just bet there's a few more 'CHANGES" to come.
 
#46

sechamp2012

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#46
Seems some in college football must have noticed how the Methodist Church (for one) tend to "refresh" their congregations every few years. It is practiced by the congregation of an individual church by the Baptist's and Church's of Christ. Lord!!!! Could you imagine a college football program that was managed by the "congregation"?? (hummmm seem to remember we came close a few years back when a attempted hiring was not popular, oh, and a recent firing or two)
Never thought about that I know Spurrier was the son of a preacher and I believe it was Methodist
 
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#48

DaddyChad

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#48
Loyalty is a construct fans create to fool themselves into thinking that Coach X loves their school as much as they do.

Coaches are not fans... they are employees. If I (or you) were offered a 60-120% raise on our yearly salary, to have our mortgage paid or a new home built, to be ours free and clear... use of a personal jet x number of times a year, or any of the other ridiculous fringe benefits being offered, many (perhaps not all, but many) would jump at the chance.

If we set our fandom aside this loyalty construct is foolish and not based in reality. I love what CJH is doing with the program, but if someone offers him 100 Million$ to come coach their team he would be a fool to not take it.
Fans expect loyalty then want a coach gone after first loss.
 
#50
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#50
The biggest problem with paying so much money is they can just show up at an SEC school knowing they will never beat Saban, collect millions and retire. I thought LSU giving the job to Orgeron was genius and Texas A&M giving Jimbo FU money was stupid given that Saban was not going to be beaten no matter how much you paid for a coach. It was Orgeron that beat Saban and won a Natty, but LSU got spoiled and they are paying FU money to someone else who won't beat Saban either.
 

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