Changing my tune: Think maybe Heupel should keep Banks

#76
#76
West Vol said:
His stuff is interesting, but I very much doubt he is watching entire games. Setting your CBs up 15 yards off the line of scrimmage and 3rd and 3 is never the right play.

Last year against Arkansas when they put that giant RB in on their final drive in an obvious running situation and we had no one in the box to stop him and he rumbled forward for like 35 yards. He does a lot of nonsensical stuff.
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When I watched Brooks, and I think you're talking about the goal line deal. He said it was a good play call, but personnel required to make it work was not on the field.

Part of being a good Coordinator, it would seem in my simple mind, would be knowing your roster. Including their limitations, and what they are good at. Also, as person in charge of safety recruiting. Hth can you go from one of the best safety recruiters in country to trotting out walk ons?

Is it a matter of not having time? other priorities? it cant be that he forgot how to recruit. it cant be that he's busy developing sophisticated blitzes, or devoting more time to having in game scheme changes.

We know he can field a good defense. We know there will be inherent issues related to how fast we score. But now we see other teams running tempo, and able to field a serviceable defense.

Is it Jimmies and Joes? Or is it play calling? Or is it lack of coaching to take good angles?

Yes we are young, but ALL THAT is on Tim Banks. There are no excuses, bc what was fielded was inexcusable.
 
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#77
#77
I get the feeling that the “family culture”, while popular (maybe fourth or fifth on a list of priorities), it can be a weak point if the coach is trying to be a brother rather than a parent. When I watched Nick Saban, he was obviously the alpha of the team. Love was tough, not slathered. Recruits that require family might not be looking for harsh truths and unrelenting strain. Of course, Saban was shipping guys off to the next level left and right. And that is a priority higher than family atmosphere with a fluffy couch. But, that’s just my unenlightened opinion. (Oh, and, I don’t expect CJH to change. It’s not in his DNA, which is more OC than HC.)
 
#78
#78
Jackcrevol said:
When I watched Brooks, and I think you're talking about the goal line deal. He said it was a good play call, but personnel required to make it work was not on the field.

Part of being a good Coordinator, it would seem in my simple mind, would be knowing your roster. Including their limitations, and what they are good at. Also, as person in charge of safety recruiting. Hth can you go from one of the best safety recruiters in country to trotting out walk ons?

Is it a matter of not having time? other priorities? it cant be that he forgot how to recruit. it cant be that he's busy developing sophisticated blitzes, or devoting more time to having in game scheme changes.

We know he can field a good defense. We know there will be inherent issues related to how fast we score. But now we see other teams running tempo, and able to field a serviceable defense.

Is it Jimmies and Joes? Or is it play calling? Or is it lack of coaching to take good angles?

Yes we are young, but ALL THAT is on Tim Banks. There are no excuses, bc what was fielded was inexcusable.
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The starting defense flat out wasn’t that young. We are losing our top 5 DL because they are all out of eligibility. Also losing a starting safety and nickel for the same reason. Arion and Telander have played a lot of football. Colton Hood is a junior.

Farooq is a sophomore and hasn’t played much before this year. Obviously Redmon is a true freshman and he took his lumps. We also have some backup linebackers that are young. There are a lot of freshman on the team, but they mostly haven’t been major contributors. We have been losing games mainly with older guys on the field.
 
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#79
#79
bpalmer28 said:
I’ve watched him. And I’ve noticed his defense getting better year after year for 4 consecutive years leading up to 2025. His ability to scheme resulted in us having one of the best defenses in the SEC last year. This year was bad. Needs to convince Heupel he can fix it.
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This is true. 24 he had a top 10 D and 23 was top 30 which makes this year so maddening. The trend every year since he got here has been towards getting better. Is last year the peak and we've started the other way? The man didn't forget how to coach. Our LB coach needs to be brought in along with our safety coaches and need to have serious conversations. They were very bad this year. Also,our D Line coach is not without stain. Our DT and edges were terrible in run stopping and did not rush the passer well. Lots of blame to go around.

Last year Pearce,Norman,Thomas,Brooks,McCoy and Gibson played at an extremely high level.
No one on this years D matched any of the guys last year.
To me,just me, you have a Jimmy's and Joes problem
 
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#80
#80
West Vol said:
The starting defense flat out wasn’t that young. We are losing our top 5 DL because they are all out of eligibility. Also losing a starting safety and nickel for the same reason. Arion and Telander have played a lot of football. Colton Hood is a junior.

Farooq is a sophomore and hasn’t played much before this year. Obviously Redmon is a true freshman and he took his lumps. We also have some backup linebackers that are young. There are a lot of freshman on the team, but they mostly haven’t been major contributors. We have been losing games mainly with older guys on the field.
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I think the team as a whole was young, youngest in the league. But all teams have young players.

1. Missing in both portholes
2. Keeping younger more talented players on bench
3. Trotting out defenses that dont get home, dont take good angles, and cant stop anything, is bad.

I try ti be positive but, something has to change. And I'm not sure farrin' is the answer.

But one thing is for sure, if we arent gonzo in the porthole we will not be successful.
 
#81
#81
The defense went on a steady upward trend for 3 years til this year when the bottom fell out of it. I think he'll keep banks and move some assistants around. Doubt we see much change overall in the staff except maybe Garner going back to the Barn.
 
#82
#82
bpalmer28 said:
What is Heupel’s edge in recruiting? The loyalty he shows to players and coaches because that’s what creates the “family” atmosphere all the recruits rave about. Some say loyalty will be his undoing, but it could just as easily be what carries him to the top.

Is it ok we have the #14 defense in the SEC? Heck no. But this time last year we were #2. If Banks can convince Heupel that he knows why and present a confident path to correction, I think he should keep him.

To the “Heupel will never fire anyone” crowd, have you ever asked yourself why? The answer is in Heupel’s past. He didn’t get a chance to fix OU’s offense despite likely knowing it could be fixed. He hires people who he thinks can be great and he commits to helping them get there. That is leadership. That doesn’t mean firing people isn’t on the table! But if his coaches have the same commitment to greatness they had when hired, same work ethic, same innovative mentality, why fire them at the first sign of struggle? He can demand a schematic change without firing anyone. He can demand a pivot in desirable player attributes without firing anyone.

Is it Banks fault we wasted NIL dollars on Boo or that his top 2 CBs missed the entire season? I think maybe if we strengthen the middle of our defense (DT, MLB, S) Banks and the rest of our staff together can figure things out.
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If you look at Bank’s body language in his last press conference, it seemed to me like he was kinda checked out. Idk that he wants to stay and if you aren’t willing to deal with some loud criticism online, this is not the right place for you.
 
#83
#83
Interesting quote from G. McElroy on our D.
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McElroy suggested that Tennessee has too many defensive looks to be elite at any single defense, which leads to missed assignments and unaccounted for gaps.

“It’s like you’ll get 10 plays, and you’ll have 10 different defenses, which can be hard as an opposing offense trying to figure it out,” said McElroy of Tennessee’s defensive looks. “But it also means that I don’t know if they’re really great at any one thing. They’re kind of solid at everything. And when you don’t live in one specific look defensively, you’re less comfortable executing a different scheme on every single play, which leads to mistakes, which leads to busted coverages, which leads to unaccounted-for gaps.
 
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#87
#87
bpalmer28 said:
What is Heupel’s edge in recruiting? The loyalty he shows to players and coaches because that’s what creates the “family” atmosphere all the recruits rave about. Some say loyalty will be his undoing, but it could just as easily be what carries him to the top.

Is it ok we have the #14 defense in the SEC? Heck no. But this time last year we were #2. If Banks can convince Heupel that he knows why and present a confident path to correction, I think he should keep him.

To the “Heupel will never fire anyone” crowd, have you ever asked yourself why? The answer is in Heupel’s past. He didn’t get a chance to fix OU’s offense despite likely knowing it could be fixed. He hires people who he thinks can be great and he commits to helping them get there. That is leadership. That doesn’t mean firing people isn’t on the table! But if his coaches have the same commitment to greatness they had when hired, same work ethic, same innovative mentality, why fire them at the first sign of struggle? He can demand a schematic change without firing anyone. He can demand a pivot in desirable player attributes without firing anyone.

Is it Banks fault we wasted NIL dollars on Boo or that his top 2 CBs missed the entire season? I think maybe if we strengthen the middle of our defense (DT, MLB, S) Banks and the rest of our staff together can figure things out.
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The only problem I have with Banks is his conservative approach. Wish he would bring constant pressure especially when were lacking in safeties and LB play. Then again that might be the reason to his conservative play.
 
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#88
#88
The rankings and things matter little to me. We were play out bad in many of the SEC games and we had little flexibility to adjust. We were really rigid and teams really punished us for that. A lot of that was personnel. Our DBs struggled with injuries; I get that. But man we did a bad job protecting our weakest players. UGA took advantage and just bullied us at the end to our demise. Once they figured out they could pick on Redmond, the whole game changed. Against OSU and Vandy, they put our LBs in a bind and got them misaligned and out of position. Sunbelt Billy did it to us too. Two years ago in the swamp we had cbs in the box and lbs in space. The system is not great. We struggle with motion and if anybody runs a mesh concept we fall apart.
 
#89
#89
bpalmer28 said:
What is Heupel’s edge in recruiting? The loyalty he shows to players and coaches because that’s what creates the “family” atmosphere all the recruits rave about. Some say loyalty will be his undoing, but it could just as easily be what carries him to the top.

Is it ok we have the #14 defense in the SEC? Heck no. But this time last year we were #2. If Banks can convince Heupel that he knows why and present a confident path to correction, I think he should keep him.

To the “Heupel will never fire anyone” crowd, have you ever asked yourself why? The answer is in Heupel’s past. He didn’t get a chance to fix OU’s offense despite likely knowing it could be fixed. He hires people who he thinks can be great and he commits to helping them get there. That is leadership. That doesn’t mean firing people isn’t on the table! But if his coaches have the same commitment to greatness they had when hired, same work ethic, same innovative mentality, why fire them at the first sign of struggle? He can demand a schematic change without firing anyone. He can demand a pivot in desirable player attributes without firing anyone.

Is it Banks fault we wasted NIL dollars on Boo or that his top 2 CBs missed the entire season? I think maybe if we strengthen the middle of our defense (DT, MLB, S) Banks and the rest of our staff together can figure things out.
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I don't know that Banks should be fired either. We had a top 10 defense last year. I'm not saying that he shouldn't because I don't know the circumstances or the dynamic of what he is allowed to do. Whoever made the decision not to bolster the roster with linebackers and safeties last year is to blame. Banks blitzing has been sub par this year, but who knows to what degree he has been limited by Heupel. If this was his show, then absolutely he should be fired. If Heupel is limiting him, then Heupel needs to hire a OC and let him do his job and let the DC do his job and focus on managing the game.
 
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#90
#90
Major programs like Bama and Ohio State have DCs and OCs with elite pedigrees. We have people like Halze and Banks
 
#91
#91
No one is getting fired. The only way Heupel's staff isn't essentially the same next season is if people leave voluntarily for other jobs.

Heupel lacks urgency, discipline, and proactive-ness. He is reactionary, and seems just a tad lazy. I don't think he has always been this way, but he has banked $50 million or so the past few years. That kind of $$$ has different effects on people. For Heupel, I think it has made him very conservative and VERY reactive vice proactive. I hate to say it, but I think he has done all he can do. He pulled us out of the gutter, but I fear we may hold on to him too long and he will leave with us BACK down there.

Just my $.02
 
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#92
#92
We don’t tackle.

If we can’t get a coach who can teach fundamental football and how to wrap up then scheme doesn’t matter.

And we don’t understand how to spy or contain a dual threat at all. Pavia ran 3rd and long multiple plays with a ML completely out of position due to a rush or just bad angle. That is coaching.
 
#93
#93
Mccage said:
The only problem I have with Banks is his conservative approach. Wish he would bring constant pressure especially when were lacking in safeties and LB play. Then again that might be the reason to his conservative play.
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Pressuring when we show it too early or never back out when teams check when we show it has been an issue.
-Or we pressure on a safety blitz from 12 yards out on 3rd and 2.
-Or we send a blitz leaving the slot uncovered with another wr stacked and one defender within 10 yards for another easy 3rd down conversion.
-Or we drop Jospephs into coverage on 3rd down.
-or we show zero with 20 seconds on the play clock and allow them to shift their matchup choice to slot and clear out 1 v 1 with no help inside, outside or deep and no DL hands up to bat
All that aside, towards the top of my frustration is when we send 5 or 6, know the qb has to get rid of it, and we just give them 5-6 yards on a curl to the sticks with 3 players giving a protective umbrella guarding grass for easy throw. Fine, play zone, but come downhill at the snap and be there when the qb gets ready to throw it quick. We just watch it happen then go tackle
Makes me nauseous.
 
#94
#94
All of those who prophesy doom here at UT,need to just continue to play Candy Crush forever.Lack of knowledge of football is not as concerning as getting rid of licorice.
 
#95
#95
bpalmer28 said:
What is Heupel’s edge in recruiting? The loyalty he shows to players and coaches because that’s what creates the “family” atmosphere all the recruits rave about. Some say loyalty will be his undoing, but it could just as easily be what carries him to the top.

Is it ok we have the #14 defense in the SEC? Heck no. But this time last year we were #2. If Banks can convince Heupel that he knows why and present a confident path to correction, I think he should keep him.

To the “Heupel will never fire anyone” crowd, have you ever asked yourself why? The answer is in Heupel’s past. He didn’t get a chance to fix OU’s offense despite likely knowing it could be fixed. He hires people who he thinks can be great and he commits to helping them get there. That is leadership. That doesn’t mean firing people isn’t on the table! But if his coaches have the same commitment to greatness they had when hired, same work ethic, same innovative mentality, why fire them at the first sign of struggle? He can demand a schematic change without firing anyone. He can demand a pivot in desirable player attributes without firing anyone.

Is it Banks fault we wasted NIL dollars on Boo or that his top 2 CBs missed the entire season? I think maybe if we strengthen the middle of our defense (DT, MLB, S) Banks and the rest of our staff together can figure things out.
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Wrong! His offense scored a bunch at Oklahoma, their problem was all on the defensive side of the ball and Stoops wouldn’t fire his DC brother, so he scapegoated Heupel! He had to fire someone and that’s why Heupel hasn’t spoken to him since. He’d never go back to Oklahoma as long as Bob Stoops is part of the program/administration.
 
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