CFN asks: Is mediocrity the new TN?

#52
#52
I simply must say this...I enjoy the banter back and forth here but just clear your head and look at the seriousness with which we take this stuff. I mean it's like a discussion about what to do with the crime rate in Chicago!!! We act like the axis of the earths rotation hinges on what another "journalist" thinks about our coach and program. IDK sometimes reality hits me between the eyes and I can't be silent. Hopefully we give as much passion to the things THAT REALLY MATTER IN LIFE!! JMO of course...
 
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#54
#54
Behr said:
Everyone knows what he means. I look forward to the level-headed discussion between the adults here on VN.
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#56
#56
tennrich1 said:
I simply must say this...I enjoy the banter back and forth here but just clear your head and look at the seriousness with which we take this stuff. I mean it's like a discussion about what to do with the crime rate in Chicago!!! We act like the axis of the earths rotation hinges on what another "journalist" thinks about our coach and program. IDK sometimes reality hits me between the eyes and I can't be silent. Hopefully we give as much passion to the things THAT REALLY MATTER IN LIFE!! JMO of course...
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You wouldn't post this if we were winning championships.
 
#57
#57
Just wanted to drop off this thought: Butch is 49 years old and already an SEC head coach. At 49, Saban was starting his very first year at LSU and went 8-4. Hadn't won an SEC/NCAA championship at all yet. None of Saban's winnings really came until age 50. Just saying, we're seeing Butch evolve. He's doing 7 on 7's now, making changes....give the man a chance to become the coach he can be. If he fails, he'll be gone, but, we're so stinking close it isn't funny. I'm feeling good about this year.
 
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#58
#58
TNHopeful505 said:
Just wanted to drop off this thought: Butch is 49 years old and already an SEC head coach. At 49, Saban was starting his very first year at LSU and went 8-4. Hadn't won an SEC/NCAA championship at all yet. None of Saban's winnings really came until age 50. Just saying, we're seeing Butch evolve. He's doing 7 on 7's now, making changes....give the man a chance to become the coach he can be. If he fails, he'll be gone, but, we're so stinking close it isn't funny. I'm feeling good about this year.
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Really? He's 49 so we need to give him some more time? That's the argument? The Butch apologists have no shame. How about this one: Fulmer was 48 when he won the BCSCG.
 
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#59
#59
TNHopeful505 said:
Just wanted to drop off this thought: Butch is 49 years old and already an SEC head coach. At 49, Saban was starting his very first year at LSU and went 8-4. Hadn't won an SEC/NCAA championship at all yet. None of Saban's winnings really came until age 50. Just saying, we're seeing Butch evolve. He's doing 7 on 7's now, making changes....give the man a chance to become the coach he can be. If he fails, he'll be gone, but, we're so stinking close it isn't funny. I'm feeling good about this year.
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Other than 1 year at Toledo, Saban's HC experience started in 1995. By his 10th year, where CBJ is this year, Saban had1 National Championship and 2 SEC Championships.

They aren't even in the same universe in comparison of accomplishments at the same point in their respective careers.
 
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#61
#61
Or is it that Pete Fiutak is the runner, delivering NegaVol addicts their Jones bashing fix?
 
#62
#62
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#63
#63
Neyland Law Vol said:
Article seems like it could be about us the last couple seasons.





This ribbing seems at least slightly similar to the "life champions" "5 star hearts" jokes about TN. Hard to believe this guy is now on top of the CFB world after getting destroyed like this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lemson-ever-clemsoned/?utm_term=.0aa6b67910b8
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Again, this about Dabo who in his first 3 full seasons won his division twice and the ACC once.... with a 7 loss season sandwiched in between in which he lost 4 games by less than a TD.

NOT similar to UT's last two seasons.
 
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#66
#66
ALLVOL24/7/365 said:
All valid points. But there is one factor that is different. Clemson had TOMMY Bowden as the coach that preceded Dabo. They had decent talent on the team, not as good as now, but pretty good. Jones was preceded by Dooley and we saw how great his players were when our NFL drafted players list which started with the first draft died with the Dooley players. Our players were not of the caliber to compete in the SEC for the most part when Jones arrived. Jones did not have the luxury of red shirting anyone from the first recruiting class to speak of and had no offensive line. I will say that now is the time for things to start to come together. If Jones had been able to redshirt JOSH Dobbs he would be our starting QB this year,but injuries prevented that, and this upcoming season would look totally different right now.
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How long is that excuse valid for? If anything, the first two years where young players got uncommon experience should have really paid off the last two years, right?

Fact is, Jones may have signed guys who might have gone elsewhere if not for the promise of immediate playing time... so that cuts both ways.

Secondly, that doesn't explain the bad losses in each year. Whether the margin or the actual outcome... Jones has had multiple bad performances in each seasons going back to the blow outs then Vandy loss that prevented a bowl in year 1.... and reaching its lowest point with a loss to USCe with the East on the line... followed by a loss to Vandy with the Sugar Bowl on the line. You can throw games like App St, N Tx, Ohio, etc in there as well.

Lastly, many here act like Jones inherited the worst situation any coach has ever inherited. That isn't true. EVERY Vandy coach including Franklin inherits a worse situation with regard to talent. Bama and LSU were hardly loaded when Saban arrived. Va Tech this last season wasn't an ideal set up for a new coach. Ole Miss was a mess. Michigan was a mess. Even tOSU was a mess. USC wasn't very good when Carroll got there. Stanford was the long time doormat of the Pac10.

MOST if not all of these turnarounds happened in relatively short order.... and it is the exception, not the rule, when a coach doesn't have early success then turns it around after year 3.

Jones' job should be on the line this year. It probably isn't... but should be. He's had enough time and support even from a bad starting point. The bar IMO should be at least 8 regular season games. That basically says he needs to beat the teams on the schedule that clearly have less talented rosters. That SHOULD NOT be too much to ask if Jones is good enough to hold the HC job at UT.... but in each of his first 4 seasons... it apparently HAS been too much to ask.
 
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#67
#67
sjt18 said:
Again, this about Dabo who in his first 3 full seasons won his division twice and the ACC once.... with a 7 loss season sandwiched in between in which he lost 4 games by less than a TD.

NOT similar to UT's last two seasons.
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Yet, as the article states, his teams had (and still have) a knack for under performing / choaking...hence the "Clemsoning" tag. I think this is where some folks may see the similarities, which...are there.

The ACC wasn't doing too well when he took over, but he did capitalize. Being on the staff for 5 1/2 years may have had something to do with it. It does appear he's "grown" into a better coach the last 2.

He's had some signature wins....as well as some signature losses; to a 2-10 Maryland team, a 7-6 SCAR squad and quite a few mediocre teams they should have beaten...as well as peer teams that were choked away.
 
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#68
#68
JC61 said:
Yet, as the article states, his teams had (and still have) a knack for under performing / choaking...hence the "Clemsoning" tag. I think this is where some folks may see the similarities, which...are there.

The ACC wasn't doing too well when he took over, but he did capitalize. Being on the staff for 5 1/2 years may have had something to do with it. It does appear he's "grown" into a better coach the last 2.

He's had some signature wins....as well as some signature losses; to a 2-10 Maryland team, a 7-6 SCAR squad and quite a few mediocre teams they should have beaten...as well as peer teams that were choked away.
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"Clemsoning has pretty much died"
 
#69
#69
sjt18 said:
Not sure if true... but assuming it is... what happened at Bama that changed that? They stuck with a coach who kept producing mediocre results, right?
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well, I know the bama crowd will go bananas...but, Shula wasn't near as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He really did inherit a mess - sanctions plus the Price scandal. He probably wasn't seasoned / experienced enough to handle it effectively.

His first year was marked by close losses, his 3rd year was a top 10 finish - vacated due to sanctions during his time. 2nd and 4th were mediocre with sanctions his last to nullify any wins.

He wasn't the right guy at the right time....or place, but I don't think he's the worse guy to ever coach a D1 football team.
 
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#71
#71
JC61 said:
Yet, as the article states, his teams had (and still have) a knack for under performing / choaking...hence the "Clemsoning" tag. I think this is where some folks may see the similarities, which...are there.
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LOL... no, they really aren't because you can't stop with just that much then declare "see there, Dabo was as bad as Jones and look what happened"... because their performances weren't similar. Their underperformances weren't as many. And to balance those... he has won BIG.

The ACC wasn't doing too well when he took over, but he did capitalize. Being on the staff for 5 1/2 years may have had something to do with it. It does appear he's "grown" into a better coach the last 2.
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Last two? He had a 9 win season followed by a 6 win season followed by six 10 win seasons in a row. In 8 full seasons, he's won his division 5 times, the ACC 3 times, and a NC by beating mighty Saban. And that is supposed to compare to a guy who can't win the SEC East in its current state after 4 tries and with having the best team in the East for the last two years?

He's had some signature wins....as well as some signature losses; to a 2-10 Maryland team, a 7-6 SCAR squad and quite a few mediocre teams they should have beaten...as well as peer teams that were choked away.
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How many more you got? Jones has maybe one upset win (USCe)... with bad losses vs Vandy X2, UF's worst team in 3 decades, USCe (one of the least talented teams to play in the SEC in a while and coached by Muschamp), Arkansas... and that's without counting snatching defeat from the jaws of victory through poor HC game management vs UF and OU.... or the pattern that seems to be developing of playing down to the likes of App St and N Tx.
 
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#72
#72
JC61 said:
well, I know the bama crowd will go bananas...but, Shula wasn't near as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He really did inherit a mess - sanctions plus the Price scandal. He probably wasn't seasoned / experienced enough to handle it effectively.

His first year was marked by close losses, his 3rd year was a top 10 finish - vacated due to sanctions during his time. 2nd and 4th were mediocre with sanctions his last to nullify any wins.

He wasn't the right guy at the right time....or place, but I don't think he's the worse guy to ever coach a D1 football team.
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So... you are saying he was a guy with a pedigree thought to be an up and comer who inherited a bad situation and proved that he wasn't up to the task... and left the next guy with limited talent?

Sounds pretty much like Dooley. He didn't handle it well at all... but Dooley inherited a situation about as bad as what he handed Jones. The roster was thin and had no talent in some groups. He had no returning QB's. Simms transferred in and he signed Bray after Kiffin got his commitment.

Give Jones max credit for at least getting the UT roster healthier... but is that really enough?
 
#73
#73
JC61 said:
we'll see...they sure as hell "Clemsoned" against Pitt last year...bama the year before...FSU and GT the year before that.

An NT erases all that, I will agree, but they are still Clemsoning.
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I'd take it over what Jones has done... you?

You're comparing losing to Bama in the NC game to losing to say... a 4-8 UF team coached by Muschamp?
 
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#74
#74
it was not a hit peace , it is reality. Jones is a better than average coach. Tennessee is a better than average program. we are not the A-team. even if we win the SEC east,( so what) we will be blow out by Bama. until we have the talent to bet them , we will stay a better than average team. there may be 6 coaches in the country including the NFL that might do better. there is one former Tennessee player that could do it, but never will. we just have to keep hope alive. go big orange
 
#75
#75
sjt18 said:
LOL... no, they really aren't because you can't stop with just that much then declare "see there, Dabo was as bad as Jones and look what happened"... because their performances weren't similar. Their underperformances weren't as many. And to balance those... he has won BIG.

Last two? He had a 9 win season followed by a 6 win season followed by six 10 win seasons in a row. In 8 full seasons, he's won his division 5 times, the ACC 3 times, and a NC by beating mighty Saban. And that is supposed to compare to a guy who can't win the SEC East in its current state after 4 tries and with having the best team in the East for the last two years?


How many more you got? Jones has maybe one upset win (USCe)... with bad losses vs Vandy X2, UF's worst team in 3 decades, USCe (one of the least talented teams to play in the SEC in a while and coached by Muschamp), Arkansas... and that's without counting snatching defeat from the jaws of victory through poor HC game management vs UF and OU.... or the pattern that seems to be developing of playing down to the likes of App St and N Tx.
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The derision w/ Jones is laughable. I don't think I said Dabo was as bad a Jones or vice versa. I said there were similarities - and there are.

Chocking is choking - Dabo's team do it at least once every year. He's won his Div and Conf, now a NT in spite of it all...beating Saban, somewhat miraculously on Watson's talent, but nonetheless beating UA.

Sorry, I don't think Ol' Boy is heads and shoulders above the rest of CFB coaches. He's very good and has managed to out talent most of his opponents. Almost all of his loses are head scratchers...much like our coach.

As far as CBJ...while I think he's managed to build on par talent with UGA and UF, which wasn't there his first 2 years, I don't think the entire squad as ever been vastly more talented than our main rivals.

Unlike you, I don't subscribe to the notion Vandy was a lesser team his first year. I also think Arkansas was a bad matchup all over the field - nonetheless, our guys had a chance...they played one of the poorest games of the season that day.

I do put last year on him - not for game day coaching but for allowing the team to appear soft, unmotivated and undisciplined; which, coupled with an inordinate number of key injuries wrecked what could have been a very good season.
 
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