CBJ should use Sumlin as an example

#1
VOLorNuttin

VOLorNuttin

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#1
...I don't know that he hasn't, but I think Butch should start selling himself as the next Kevin Sumlin. His credentials are about the same if not slightly better, and the program Sumlin took over wasn't an elite one, either.

But what a difference one season and a good coach can make. They both run a spread offense, and while Peterman isn't Johnny Football, we don't know that he won't be similarly effective as a QB. I had never heard of Manziel before this season, either.

This program isn't that far from TAM, overall, talent-wise. We just had to settle for a coach who had no reason to even be a considered for a HC'ing position in the SEC.
 
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#4
#4
92volalum said:
Is spring practice over or did worley quit???
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I don't think Worley will beat out Peterman. He is strictly a pocket passer, whereas Peterman is relatively mobile. I hope Worley is up to the task, but I haven't seen anything yet to make me think he is.
Peterman was also recruited by CBJ, so, he should have the better hand this spring.
 
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#6
#6
VOLorNuttin said:
...I don't know that he hasn't, but I think Butch should start selling himself as the next Kevin Sumlin. His credentials are about the same if not slightly better, and the program Sumlin took over wasn't an elite one, either.

But what a difference one season and a good coach can make. They both run a spread offense, and while Peterman isn't Johnny Football, we don't know that he won't be similarly effective as a QB. I had never heard of Manziel before this season, either.

This program isn't that far from TAM, overall, talent-wise. We just had to settle for a coach who had no reason to even be a considered for a HC'ing position in the SEC.
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I think our program is farther from Texas A & M than you realize (starting with fact that they recruit one of the big states as far as high school talent). I'm just talking talent wise---not to mention our incompetent coaching and instability. Mike Sherman was able to win 9 games in 2010 and the Aggies have a hell of a lot more talent than we do right now.
 
#8
#8
VOLorNuttin said:
...I don't know that he hasn't, but I think Butch should start selling himself as the next Kevin Sumlin. His credentials are about the same if not slightly better, and the program Sumlin took over wasn't an elite one, either.

But what a difference one season and a good coach can make. They both run a spread offense, and while Peterman isn't Johnny Football, we don't know that he won't be similarly effective as a QB. I had never heard of Manziel before this season, either.

This program isn't that far from TAM, overall, talent-wise. We just had to settle for a coach who had no reason to even be a considered for a HC'ing position in the SEC.
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Butch should sell UT as UT, and himself as himself-- an exciting guy that has won everywhere he's been. Personally, I don't want our coach walking into recruit homes and selling TAM.
 
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#9
#9
What I got from this is that we are one Heisman winning freshman away from making a huge impact on the national scene. I'll buy that. Now where do we get that once in a decade phenom?
 
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#10
#10
VOLorNuttin said:
...I don't know that he hasn't, but I think Butch should start selling himself as the next Kevin Sumlin. His credentials are about the same if not slightly better, and the program Sumlin took over wasn't an elite one, either.

But what a difference one season and a good coach can make. They both run a spread offense, and while Peterman isn't Johnny Football, we don't know that he won't be similarly effective as a QB. I had never heard of Manziel before this season, either.

This program isn't that far from TAM, overall, talent-wise. We just had to settle for a coach who had no reason to even be a considered for a HC'ing position in the SEC.
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Sumlin had senior leadership all over the field, especially at WR and his O line was one of he best in the country. But the real reason was Manzel - and finding the next Manzel is not easy.
 
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#11
#11
It's a bad Monday when Fade and I make nearly identical statements in back to back posts. I knew I was feeling crotchety this morning.
 
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#12
#12
Orange_Crush said:
Butch should sell UT as UT, and himself as himself-- an exciting guy that has won everywhere he's been. Personally, I don't want our coach walking into recruit homes and selling TAM.
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If selling yourself as TAMU gets you top notch guys well be TAMU. Don't let pride keep you from getting were you need to be. Last time I checked we haven't even been to a bowl in the last two years.
 
#13
#13
keckjm said:
Peterman is a redshirt freshman.... Just saying
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I understand what you mean. These are the same guys who say Lane should start over Neal before practice starts. Any ways I do believe that Perterman's ability to be mobile will win him the job. You need a qb who can at least take off every now and then. I personally prefer the athletic QB over the throwing statue
 
#14
#14
fade route said:
Sumlin had senior leadership all over the field, especially at WR and his O line was one of he best in the country. But the real reason was Manzel - and finding the next Manzel is not easy.
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If North signs with us, this should be a sick WR corps (3 WR's all 6'4" +, and Pig, Dallas, Bowles and Jenkins in the slot), and one of the best OL's in the country, too. TAM was NOT expected to do much at all in their first season in the SEC...so, in that regard, they are not unlike us.

And for the poster who said he didn't want CBJ selling TAM....nobody said he should. Only saying that their success this season shows that there is no reason to doubt CBJ can likewise light a fire under this team, his
first year in. Again, their overall talent level isn't that much better than our own, and CBJ's resume is on par with Sumlin's, if not better.
 
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#15
#15
GBOVOLS said:
If selling yourself as TAMU gets you top notch guys well be TAMU. Don't let pride keep you from getting were you need to be. Last time I checked we haven't even been to a bowl in the last two years.
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It's not pride, my friend. It is due in part to the exact point you're making.

"Hey our coach is like ATM, who is proven, got his freshman QB a heisman, beat Bama and made a good bowl game."

"Oh. Yah. ATM is pretty great. I think I'll go there. Thanks for helping me decide. Good luck with turning things around at UT."
 
#18
#18
IF North signs with us...there is no guarantee of that at all. As far as everyone expecting A & M to struggle the first year I think the media over blew that because of the SEC bias that exists. Fact is Texas A & M got lucky with Manziel doing what he did---kid was a 3 star with no SEC offers. Butch will sell himself and the program---The next Kevin Sumlin is not really a good selling point. We passed on Kevin Sumlin if you remember. Maybe Peterman or Worley could be that mythical guy but Manziel was a unique case like Cam Newton.
 
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#19
#19
dlw4n said:
What I got from this is that we are one Heisman winning freshman away from making a huge impact on the national scene. I'll buy that. Now where do we get that once in a decade phenom?
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He was a 3* PHENOM...ok? He didn't have every team beating down his door to sign him....plus, he is about 6' tall. On a good day. So, who is to say that Peterman can't look like a phenom in Butch Jones' offense? Hell, if he can make Munchy look like a Div 1 QB, then I say we have a puncher's chance at having Peterman turning a lot of heads, too.

In fact, if North signs, I think this offense has a chance to eclipse the last one. Seeing that we had the 2nd most prolific offense in the SEC this year....it's not too far fetched.
 
#20
#20
I just want to make it clear that I don't completely disagree with the OP however A & M has more than a few things working for them and Manziel blowing up was something that no one could have predicted. A & M wasn't chopped liver in the Big 12 before they landed in the SEC.
 
#21
#21
Orange_Crush said:
It's not pride, my friend. It is due in part to the exact point you're making.

"Hey our coach is like ATM, who is proven, got his freshman QB a heisman, beat Bama and made a good bowl game."

"Oh. Yah. ATM is pretty great. I think I'll go there. Thanks for helping me decide. Good luck with turning things around at UT."
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Unless you've been hiding under a rock, he doesn't have to sell TAM. Recruits already know how they surprised everyone...including Satan himself. All Butch would have to say is "Hey, Coach Sumlin was in a very similar situation this time last year...when you look at his record, level of competition and even the type of offense, me and my staff compare quite favorably. Tennessee's offense was the 2nd best in the league this year. Much of that offense is returning. We just need to get the defense back on track"
 
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#22
#22
'll buy that. Now where do we get that once in a decade phenom?

Once in a decade? We haven't had a Heisman winner is like, well...never.
 
#23
#23
volswillrise12 said:
I just want to make it clear that I don't completely disagree with the OP however A & M has more than a few things working for them and Manziel blowing up was something that no one could have predicted. A & M wasn't chopped liver in the Big 12 before they landed in the SEC.
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They weren't beating the big teams in their conference, either. Nobody, but nobody expected much out of TAM this year. So, again...with a good coaching staff, we aren't that far apart.

If we get North, I think this offense will be hard to stop. Butch has not had this much talent at WR and OL, ever...and to be honest, I think Peterman will prove to be a better QB than Bray was.
 
#24
#24
VOLorNuttin said:
...I don't know that he hasn't, but I think Butch should start selling himself as the next Kevin Sumlin. His credentials are about the same if not slightly better, and the program Sumlin took over wasn't an elite one, either.

But what a difference one season and a good coach can make. They both run a spread offense, and while Peterman isn't Johnny Football, we don't know that he won't be similarly effective as a QB. I had never heard of Manziel before this season, either.

This program isn't that far from TAM, overall, talent-wise. We just had to settle for a coach who had no reason to even be a considered for a HC'ing position in the SEC.
Click to expand...

VOLorNuttin said:
Unless you've been hiding under a rock, he doesn't have to sell TAM. Recruits already know how they surprised everyone...including Satan himself. All Butch would have to say is "Hey, Coach Sumlin was in a very similar situation this time last year...when you look at his record, level of competition and even the type of offense, me and my staff compare quite favorably. Tennessee's offense was the 2nd best in the league this year. Much of that offense is returning. We just need to get the defense back on track"
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And I'm just saying that CBJ selling himself as "the next Kevin Sumlin" has a huge chance of backfiring. That's all I'm saying.

If your sales pitch depends on building up one of the people you're selling against, it might not be the best strategy. The better strategy is to talk up your own product while selling against the opposing products.

By hanging your hat on being "the next Kevin Sumlin", it's a small step for the recruit to then think. "Heck, why not just go play for THE Kevin Sumlin?"

Pretty much, I'm saying that I would prefer a sales job that highlights CBJ's plan to turn around UT, as opposed to having a coach that sells another program's success, as part and parcel with his recruiting tactics.
 
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#25
#25
VOLorNuttin said:
He was a 3* PHENOM...ok? He didn't have every team beating down his door to sign him....plus, he is about 6' tall. On a good day. So, who is to say that Peterman can't look like a phenom in Butch Jones' offense? Hell, if he can make Munchy look like a Div 1 QB, then I say we have a puncher's chance at having Peterman turning a lot of heads, too.

In fact, if North signs, I think this offense has a chance to eclipse the last one. Seeing that we had the 2nd most prolific offense in the SEC this year....it's not too far fetched.
Click to expand...

None of that recruiting nonsense means anything. Manziel is still a once in a decade phenom. That's the only reason A&M had that kind of success. I don't care if we land a 1 star walkon who turns out to be a phenom. If we have a Johnny Manziel like guy on our team, we will have overnight success. Otherwise better build from the ground up. That's what butch is doing. Maybe he finds a diamond that speeds it up.
 
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