Can we have it both ways?

#1
Ohio Vol

Ohio Vol

Inquisitor of Offense
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
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#1
In case my user name isn't a giveaway, I live in Big Ten country. It's hilarious to hear a large group of mouth-breathers talk about how great the Big Ten is. Obviously, we all know this to be the height of stupidity.

The SEC is recognized, rightly so, as the best conference top-to-bottom with the SEC East being the toughest division/half-division in the country. Heck, it's a huge source of pride.

In order to win the East, it requires getting the best of Georgia and Florida, plus whoever the West throws out there. We all talk about how brutally tough the SEC is, in large part based on having to face (bare minimum) three tough teams every single year and normally five or six.

Is a BCS bowl every year unreasonable? Think about it. The only teams that have made a habit of getting in those games since the BCS began are as follows:
Florida State -- had to whip a pathetic conference with, at most, one B-level team. Didn't have a conference championship game until two years ago
Oklahoma -- Need only to beat Texas; their rise coincides nicely with Nebraska's precipitous decline
Ohio State -- Michigan, sometimes Penn State; no conference championship game. Their '02 team dodged a top-5 Iowa team
USC -- Laughably bad conference; no conference championship game
Miami -- Has declined dramatically since actually picking up a tough conference schedule. Before that, bad conference with no championship game

The common theme here is a fairly easy path to take, and with Oklahoma being the exception, no conference title game. And honestly, the Big 12 North was atrocious during Oklahoma's short run and really doesn't even warrant being called "good".

Since 1998, the following teams have won SEC championships:
Tennessee -- 1998
Alabama -- 1999
Florida -- 2000, 2006
LSU -- 2001, 2003
Georgia -- 2002, 2005
Auburn -- 2004

If we were talking about Tennessee's inability to win, say, the Sun Belt Conference or something else where a top-level program has no business struggling, then I'd buy into it a bit more. If Florida State hadn't won the ACC all those years that they did and were having trouble with Georgia Tech and Clemson and NC State every year, then criticism would be warranted. But we're talking about a division where four of six teams have a legitimate shot to win it, and any one of those teams could be competitive with the best in the country.

Am I content that UT hasn't won a conference title since '98? Of course not. Am I content that there have been only two appearances in the SEC title game since that time? No way. But am I also in possession of enough perspective to recognize how tough this division and this conference is, and that its very nature prevents any team from having long runs of success? I think so.

The way I see it is, we can't have it both ways. We can't constantly talk up how tough the division and the conference is by referring to how many top-level teams there are, then go ballistic when there's losses in conference.
 
#2
#2
WOW...that was well said.

This chicken little stuff is getting real old, real quick.
 
#3
#3
I like most of what you said. I think my chief concern with Fulmer is that he hasn't been successful since the SEC's coaching makeover. I'm not sure how much he's going to accomplish play Steve Spurrier, Urban Meyer, Mark Richt, and Nick Saban every year.
 
#5
#5
VOLNPA said:
WOW...that was well said.

This chicken little stuff is getting real old, real quick.
Click to expand...
Nowhere near as old as the line of thinking that says a string of 3 and 4 loss seasons is acceptable.
 
#6
#6
Ohio Vol said:
In case my user name isn't a giveaway, I live in Big Ten country. It's hilarious to hear a large group of mouth-breathers talk about how great the Big Ten is. Obviously, we all know this to be the height of stupidity.

The SEC is recognized, rightly so, as the best conference top-to-bottom with the SEC East being the toughest division/half-division in the country. Heck, it's a huge source of pride.

In order to win the East, it requires getting the best of Georgia and Florida, plus whoever the West throws out there. We all talk about how brutally tough the SEC is, in large part based on having to face (bare minimum) three tough teams every single year and normally five or six.

Is a BCS bowl every year unreasonable? Think about it. The only teams that have made a habit of getting in those games since the BCS began are as follows:
Florida State -- had to whip a pathetic conference with, at most, one B-level team. Didn't have a conference championship game until two years ago
Oklahoma -- Need only to beat Texas; their rise coincides nicely with Nebraska's precipitous decline
Ohio State -- Michigan, sometimes Penn State; no conference championship game. Their '02 team dodged a top-5 Iowa team
USC -- Laughably bad conference; no conference championship game
Miami -- Has declined dramatically since actually picking up a tough conference schedule. Before that, bad conference with no championship game

The common theme here is a fairly easy path to take, and with Oklahoma being the exception, no conference title game. And honestly, the Big 12 North was atrocious during Oklahoma's short run and really doesn't even warrant being called "good".

Since 1998, the following teams have won SEC championships:
Tennessee -- 1998
Alabama -- 1999
Florida -- 2000, 2006
LSU -- 2001, 2003
Georgia -- 2002, 2005
Auburn -- 2004

If we were talking about Tennessee's inability to win, say, the Sun Belt Conference or something else where a top-level program has no business struggling, then I'd buy into it a bit more. If Florida State hadn't won the ACC all those years that they did and were having trouble with Georgia Tech and Clemson and NC State every year, then criticism would be warranted. But we're talking about a division where four of six teams have a legitimate shot to win it, and any one of those teams could be competitive with the best in the country.

Am I content that UT hasn't won a conference title since '98? Of course not. Am I content that there have been only two appearances in the SEC title game since that time? No way. But am I also in possession of enough perspective to recognize how tough this division and this conference is, and that its very nature prevents any team from having long runs of success? I think so.

The way I see it is, we can't have it both ways. We can't constantly talk up how tough the division and the conference is by referring to how many top-level teams there are, then go ballistic when there's losses in conference.
Click to expand...

Luckily,going nuts or balistic after losing to an also ran in the pac 10 is perfectly responsible.
 
#7
#7
hatvol96 said:
Nowhere near as old as the line of thinking that says a string of 3 and 4 loss seasons is acceptable.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the teams we have to play?

Do you think "Tennessee football" is 11-1, 10-2 seasons all the time?

No one has that. Look at UT's all time record. These past few years have been "good years" historically speaking. We had a good run from the mid 90's to the late 90s, and we're still doing alright.

Every college team wants to win every game. That's what makes it so exciting.

But to throw your team under the bus for not meeting your unrealistic expectations is absurd.

I hope we win the rest of them this year. Odds are against us, but the fact is, we have a better chance of doing that than 75% other teams.

Like any other team, UT has a history of bad years, mediocre years, and superb years. You can't expect to win all the time. To be honest, that's just no fun.
 
#8
#8
defaultusername said:
Have you seen the teams we have to play?

Do you think "Tennessee football" is 11-1, 10-2 seasons all the time?

No one has that. Look at UT's all time record. These past few years have been "good years" historically speaking. We had a good run from the mid 90's to the late 90s, and we're still doing alright.

Every college team wants to win every game. That's what makes it so exciting.

But to throw your team under the bus for not meeting your unrealistic expectations is absurd.

I hope we win the rest of them this year. Odds are against us, but the fact is, we have a better chance of doing that than 75% other teams.

Like any other team, UT has a history of bad years, mediocre years, and superb years. You can't expect to win all the time. To be honest, that's just no fun.
Click to expand...

Ever stop to think that your team is the one throwing you under the bus?
 
#9
#9
The way I see it is, we can't have it both ways. We can't constantly talk up how tough the division and the conference is by referring to how many top-level teams there are, then go ballistic when there's losses in conference.
Click to expand...

I cant say it any better
 
#11
#11
To imply that last night's loss somehow wronged you as a person/fan is so juvenile.

Why don't you step in their shoes. Get in the weight room. Get buff. Eat healthy. Go to class. Pass your classes. Work your butt off to be the best player. Strap on your helmet and throw your body to pieces for the love of the sport and fans.

That comment makes me sick. It really does.
 
#12
#12
Here is my problem: Sanders. Yes, I know is gone now, but that guy singlehandily brought the program down and that is Fulmer's fault. Sanders was no where near qualified to be OC for a (former) top teir program. There is no excuse he was our OC for seven years. Fulmer's loyalties are what piss me off. Instead of getting the best guys out there he hires his friends (some of which are still on the staff and should have been gone a long time ago).

Heck if Sanders hadn't quit he would probably still be here.
 
#13
#13
defaultusername said:
To imply that last night's loss somehow wronged you as a person/fan is so juvenile.

Why don't you step in their shoes. Get in the weight room. Get buff. Eat healthy. Go to class. Pass your classes. Work your butt off to be the best player. Strap on your helmet and throw your body to pieces for the love of the sport and fans.

That comment makes me sick. It really does.
Click to expand...

What does me playing football and going to class have to do with UT fielding a mediocre football team? I have every right to be offended by that.
 
#14
#14
"Walk A Mile In Someone Else's Shoes"

Man, it's just football. And you're just a fan. If you're offended, just stop. Stop watching. Stop going to games. UT doesn't need "offended" fans to cheer for them.
 
#15
#15
I think we're still recovering from a very rough patch. Last year was step 1 on the way back. We may have lost 4, but were in 3 of em and played 2 of those w/o our starting QB. We lost to the natl champ and LSU who was dominant to most.

I think this year can be the next step. There is a big turnover occuring w/ lots of young talent at key positions. Some guys left early and some disappointments will soon be pushed out by younger talent who wants to be here. The bad seeds were shown the door and the recruiting classes have been more than solid. We lose 3 this year and the young talent grows and shows promise, I'm OK with that. Next year we improve again and get the loss total down to 1 or 2 and we're all 1 big happy family again.
 
#16
#16
The program has no needs at all. It is being blown by a perfect storm in a perfect direction.
 
#17
#17
Well, Fulmer is the Lloyd Carr of the SEC and I think everyone knows what happened to them this weekend. It will probably happen to us soon or later and it might happen when Ark. St. comes to town.

You don't think people in Michigan aren't wishing they had fired Carr years ago. We are just a few years behind IMO.
 
#18
#18
VOLNPA said:
I think we're still recovering from a very rough patch. Last year was step 1 on the way back. We may have lost 4, but were in 3 of em and played 2 of those w/o our starting QB. We lost to the natl champ and LSU who was dominant to most.
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Don't forget losing Justin Harrell. It's not an issue of depth or coaching there, it's the fact that there hasn't been a DT since John Henderson who could fill that void. Losing by 1 to Florida late and by 4 to LSU (after a botched fumble call) would have made a huge difference....heck, the only loss I can see would be Arkansas, and no one in the world could have beaten them at the time UT got them.
 
#20
#20
Mullet Vol said:
Well, Fulmer is the Lloyd Carr of the SEC and I think everyone knows what happened to them this weekend. It will probably happen to us soon or later and it might happen when Ark. St. comes to town.

You don't think people in Michigan aren't wishing they had fired Carr years ago. We are just a few years behind IMO.
Click to expand...

Hardly a valid comparison. Michigan needs to beat on a bunch of cupcakes, then needs only beat Ohio State and one other team that is decent in a given year (e.g. Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Penn State; heaven forbid that two other teams be good). There also is no conference championship.

The SEC East by itself trumps the Big 10.
 
#21
#21
Mullet Vol said:
Well, Fulmer is the Lloyd Carr of the SEC and I think everyone knows what happened to them this weekend. It will probably happen to us soon or later and it might happen when Ark. St. comes to town.

You don't think people in Michigan aren't wishing they had fired Carr years ago. We are just a few years behind IMO.
Click to expand...

But Michigan was competing for titles before Carr and have the recruiting base to win w/ a new coach. Tennesse was good w/ Majors etc, but wasn't competing for the big prize. W/ the lack of in state talent we need a GREAT recruiter. Say what ya want about Phil, he can bring in the talent.
 
#23
#23
defaultusername said:
"Walk A Mile In Someone Else's Shoes"

Man, it's just football. And you're just a fan. If you're offended, just stop. Stop watching. Stop going to games. UT doesn't need "offended" fans to cheer for them.
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A couple of thoughts and I am done with you. Don't worry Freak, no need to give me a "take it to the PM" post. This is it for me on this matter.

1. You call me juvenile, then basically say that if I disagree with the way you see things that I should just leave. Not going anywhere.

2. If someone came to me tomorrow and said, "either lower your expectations or find another team to root for" I would never lower my expectations. I prefer to root for the Vols and keep my lofty expectations.
 
#24
#24
Lexvol said:
If someone came to me tomorrow and said, "either lower your expectations or find another team to root for" I would never lower my expectations. I prefer to root for the Vols and keep my lofty expectations.
Click to expand...

AMEN.
 
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