Can someone provide a metric

#1

2GeeZ4VolZ

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#1
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
 
#6

Johnnyreb#VFL

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#6
The only thing I can think of is the first game he played in, he tried to throw a ball to the opposite side of the field, and it was a very weak throw and short hopped the receiver. I remember thinking what is wrong with his arm, but he’s proven he can sling it pretty well. I think that first game/throw some are alluding to may have just been jitters imo
 
#7

JRich

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#7
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
I wouldn't say he has a weak arm, the kids playing Division 1 football, but I have commented that his passes appear to lack "zip." I understand the need to have touch on the ball in certain spots, screens, swings, and the deep ball, but on the mid range passes (especially outs on the sideline) the ball needs to get there in a hurry and I haven't seen that from him. Those are where he is more likely to get intercepted.

I don't know of any metric for arm weakness just like there isn't a metric for arm strength. We can ask him to throw towards a radar gun(?) Player performance is only judged by keen observation of actual play, not metrics. Honestly, if he was that great, he would have been on the field before Maurer and Shrout, who arguably have stronger arms but don't appear to be stars. If he was that impressive, Pruitt wouldn't have brought in Hooker and Heupel wouldn't have brought in Milton.

These are just my opinions, which I'm allowed to have, even if you don't like or agree with them.

*I also have the opinion that Maurer and JG lack touch and are painfully inaccurate. So much so, that they compromise the health of their receivers. Don't shoot me.
 
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#8

OffTackleVol

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#8
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
Kid won a Georgia 5A or 6A State Championship. He's plenty talented enough. All things considered, from what little I'm learning about our offense, pre-snap read is very important. That may be where he has an advantage.
 
#9

Rickyvol77

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#9
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
We are the worst fanbase at judging QB talent. Manning, Clausen, Ainge, Bray, Dobbs all “sucked” for a variety of reasons when they are 5 of the top 7-8 QBs in our entire history
 
#10

2GeeZ4VolZ

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#10
We are the worst fanbase at judging QB talent. Manning, Clausen, Ainge, Bray, Dobbs all “sucked” for a variety of reasons when they are 5 of the top 7-8 QBs in our entire history
Geez, I remember the AJ Suggs, Brandon Stewart contingent being some of the worst. We would’ve won world championships with those two according to some. And I think Suggs actually had a medical condition where his arm went numb if I recall correctly.
 
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#11

2GeeZ4VolZ

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#11
I wouldn't say he has a weak arm, the kids playing Division 1 football, but I have commented that his passes appear to lack "zip." I understand the need to have touch on the ball in certain spots, screens, swings, and the deep ball, but on the mid range passes (especially outs on the sideline) the ball needs to get there in a hurry and I haven't seen that from him. Those are where he is more likely to get intercepted.

I don't know of any metric for arm weakness just like there isn't a metric for arm strength. We can ask him to throw towards a radar gun(?) Player performance is only judged by keen observation of actual play, not metrics. Honestly, if he was that great, he would have been on the field before Maurer and Shrout, who arguably have stronger arms but don't appear to be stars. If he was that impressive, Pruitt wouldn't have brought in Hooker and Heupel wouldn't have brought in Milton.

These are just my opinions, which I'm allowed to have, even if you don't like or agree with them.

*I also have the opinion that Maurer and JG lack touch and are painfully inaccurate. So much so, that they compromise the health of their receivers. Don't shoot me.

Not correct. They absolutely measure ball speed at the combine. Also, release time is an indicator. The theory being that if a qb can complete their full throwing motion and still get the ball there on time that is a strong arm (think arm whip). I don’t have any of these on Bailey or anyone else but just wondered if anyone does.

Also, a true freshman on a deep out is hardly the best proxy for arm strength.
 
#12

GTBATV

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#12
Bailey throws a couple of short passes and he has a weak arm. Maurer throws a couple deep balls and he is a leader in the QB competition. That's how these narratives get started.

Milton under Heupel at UCF was a very mobile QB. Gabriel in the same system was not a mobile QB. So I think that all of our QBs have the opportunity to win the starting position this year.
 
#13

LittleVol

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#13
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
Ideally you want a QB that can throw it as hard or lite as necessary. That can throw it from different platforms.

In a QB longest throw competition,
I think Bailey and Maurer would both end up throwing it close to 70 yards.
But in regards to which one gets it from point A to point B faster in a game situation. It's Maurer by significant amount. Even though Bailey probably benches presses more than Maurer. Having a "strong arm" is not just about physical strength.

Milton's arm is stronger than Maurer's.

Bailey's arm is strong enough, he just needs to quicken his mechanics and progression. That will actually lead him to throwing it more effectively over time.

Metric?? What lol? Do you need a metric to see if a puppy is a puppy vs a dog??
 
#14

JRich

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#14
Not correct. They absolutely measure ball speed at the combine. Also, release time is an indicator. The theory being that if a qb can complete their full throwing motion and still get the ball there on time that is a strong arm (think arm whip). I don’t have any of these on Bailey or anyone else but just wondered if anyone does.

Also, a true freshman on a deep out is hardly the best proxy for arm strength.
True, but nothing beats watching the guy perform when the lights are on though. You never know how they'll do based on metrics. Manning and Brady don't have huge arms but found success as did Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers who have absolute rifles. You may find something out there, the kids been going to QB camps since 8th grade, more than likely.

I stand by my opinion that Bailey's weakness is the 20-30 yard routes. If he is picked it will be on those. I actually think he has a pretty good deep ball, or at least he did in the O&W game. Didn't see it much last season.
 
#15

volKano

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#15
Geez, I remember the AJ Suggs, Brandon Stewart contingent being some of the worst. We would’ve won world championships with those two according to some. And I think Suggs actually had a medical condition where his arm went numb if I recall correctly.
Hard to see your point when you say world championships.
 
#18

unfrozencvmanvol

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#18
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
He does not have a weak arm. That's the dumbest narrative ever.
 
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#19

Truth is honor

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#19
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
Agree completely. Dont know why but some on here beat the mobility thing to death. Historically pure passers have beaten out "mobile" quarterbacks 99 out of 100 times. Before you disagree check the record books at the collegiate level and the next level. The last two national championships should have ended this argument but obviously it didn't.
 
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#21

2GeeZ4VolZ

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#21
Ideally you want a QB that can throw it as hard or lite as necessary. That can throw it from different platforms.

In a QB longest throw competition,
I think Bailey and Maurer would both end up throwing it close to 70 yards.
But in regards to which one gets it from point A to point B faster in a game situation. It's Maurer by significant amount. Even though Bailey probably benches presses more than Maurer. Having a "strong arm" is not just about physical strength.

Milton's arm is stronger than Maurer's.

Bailey's arm is strong enough, he just needs to quicken his mechanics and progression. That will actually lead him to throwing it more effectively over time.

Metric?? What lol? Do you need a metric to see if a puppy is a puppy vs a dog??
Yes, a metric. Because based what I’ve seen, he does exactly what you say, throws it as hard as is necessary. I was specifically asking for something quantifiable that supports the proposition that his arm is weak. So far all I’m getting is purely eye test type stuff.
 
#22

1vol8

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#22
To substantiate the claim that Harrison Bailey has a weak arm? I have seen nothing to suggest this is true, quite the contrary. He was a high 4 almost 5 star kid, and from what I can tell it wasn’t arm strength keeping him from 5. I’ve only seen anecdotal, “feeling” commentary from our disgruntled fanbase. Does he have a Shuler arm, no, but the guy isn’t Chad Pennington. He’s got average to above average SEC QB arm strength. Unless you can show me a number or stat, please, stop with the “ball doesn’t seem to zip out of his hand” nonsense. A good QB throws the ball as hard as he needs to in order to complete the pass. I don’t want Jeff George fastballs.
Elite 11 long toss was 58 yards. Most SEC qbs average around 65. Maurer for example was 63. Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields both hit 70. Jamarcus Russell has the record iirc at 82(?). That’s a metric.

However, I don’t think he has a weak arm by any means. But there is a noticeable difference from the others. He’s more than capable of making the throws needed. He just may get himself in trouble with a good secondary in tight coverage.
 
#23

2GeeZ4VolZ

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#23
Elite 11 long toss was 58 yards. Most SEC qbs average around 65. Maurer for example was 63. Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields both hit 70. Jamarcus Russell has the record iirc at 82(?). That’s a metric.

However, I don’t think he has a weak arm by any means. But there is a noticeable difference from the others. He’s more than capable of making the throws needed. He just may get himself in trouble with a good secondary in tight coverage.
That is indeed a metric. Thank you.
 
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