Can O-line problems be fixed?

[Vfl2407]

Not into All Cinference performers.
But, serviceable enuf to allow Dobbs, Hurd, Williams, etc. to make some big plays.
Yes, I think so, especially when Hall returns.

Until then, I think Jones and Debord should join Mahoney in practically living with those guys.
Try the bad cop, good cop routine.
Try the "every position is now open" in practice routine.
Try the "this entire team is depending on you for our success" routine.
Try them all.
But, find five guys that can open just a few tiny running holes and give Dobbs just a few seconds to throw.
Do this, and all of our goals are still attainable.
If not....well, we've all been there before.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Alot of the problems had to do with how limited the play calling was. Dobbs was handcuffed from running to prevent injury that was obvious. So Appalachian state had a huge advantage in that all they had to do was key in on the backs. Do you remember what this offense was like when Worley was running it? Thats what happened Thursday, its going to be fine.

 

[Biopsyman]

Can Trey Smith play RT until chance Hall is healthy?

 

[gunner]

I agree, Dobbs not running really cripples the offense. Not to mention, Chance Hall being out with injury.

 

[Remy]

I believe motivating our OL to play better will be rather easy after some of them are forced to watch their performance against App State as a group this week on film. Some of those guys played so poorly "soft" does not begin to describe it. Anybody can confront and most likely will run into somebody along the way that is just a better player than they are, but as an OL, you physically confront those guys every play even if they are better. We had a center and two OGs that got punked this past Thursday night and appeared like they didn't want any more and that was the 1st quarter and their performance went downhill from there!!! You owe it to your teammates and yourself not to allow that to happen again if you have ANY personal pride and self respect. I suspect we'll see MUCH improved OL play or not hear much about 2 or 3 guys that were starters against App State, just cannot have guys quit on the team and themselves like that in football IMO.

 

[armchair]

I believe motivating our OL to play better will be rather easy after some of them are forced to watch their performance against App State as a group this week on film. Some of those guys played so poorly "soft" does not begin to describe it. Anybody can confront and most likely will run into somebody along the way that is just a better player than they are, but as an OL, you physically confront those guys every play even if they are better. We had a center and two OGs that got punked this past Thursday night and appeared like they didn't want any more and that was the 1st quarter and their performance went downhill from there!!! You owe it to your teammates and yourself not to allow that to happen again if you have ANY personal pride and self respect. I suspect we'll see MUCH improved OL play or not hear much about 2 or 3 guys that were starters against App State, just cannot have guys quit on the team and themselves like that in football IMO.

watching tape of your poor play isn't going to make you better. Veteran guys who are whiffing on blocks are simply not good players/athletes or they wouldn't be whiffing in the first place.

 

[madbamahater]

I don't believe it was because of going "vanilla". I think some fans are in denial of how bad UT currently is. The staff MUST put in the BEST personnel.

 

[Remy]

Can Trey Smith play RT until chance Hall is healthy?

Bman, seriously after watching the App State game and seeing jailbreak after jailbreak of defenders coming through the interior gaps, you are worried about the RT position?

 

[Bcoope13]

If the report is true that Thomas played on a high ankle sprain, I'm not nearly as concerned as I was Thursday night. There are certainly problems to address, but it's not time to panic.

 

[Remy]

watching tape of your poor play isn't going to make you better. Veteran guys who are whiffing on blocks are simply not good players/athletes or they wouldn't be whiffing in the first place.

I do not disagree with you, BUT, some of the guys whiffing were recognized outside our fan base and administration as having the skills and athleticism to be recognized nationally as top OL players. Therefore for those guys, it's want to do it rather than I cannot do it because my physical tools are limited. Those are the players I am suggesting can get better if they have any personal pride. The staff and those players need to figure it out asap they either want it and get it done or get I-40.

 

[VolZen]

This is the same line that enabled us to outrush FL, GA, and AL last year on our way to the second most rushing yards in school history. Relax guys. We are going to be fine!

 

[Cartervol]

The biggest problem seemed to be right up the middle. Coleman Thomas played well there at the end of last year. Don't know what happened Thursday night. Dobbs hardly ever got to set his feet.. Richmond got beat a few times but you would expect that for a first start ever. Thomas was killing us in the middle.

 

[508mikey]

This is the same line that enabled us to outrush FL, GA, and AL last year on our way to the second most rushing yards in school history. Relax guys. We are going to be fine!

Really ?

 

[Brave Volunteer]

I agree, Dobbs not running really cripples the offense. Not to mention, Chance Hall being out with injury.

Most of the OL issues were on the interior, not the OT's.

 

[fullmetalvol]

I could understand our 0-line getting bit#h smacked every play by APPY if they practiced every day against 360LB turtles, but our D-line is rightfully touted as one of the biggest, fastest we have had in many years. If iron sharpens iron, who are they practicing against every day? They played like they never tried to block a fast defender in their life! It seems to me like this would've shown up in practices while going up against our defensive carnivores and fixed long before game day.

 

[Cartervol]

I could understand our 0-line getting bit#h smacked every play by APPY if they practiced every day against 360LB turtles, but our D-line is rightfully touted as one of the biggest, fastest we have had in many years. If iron sharpens iron, who are they practicing against every day? They played like they never tried to block a fast defender in their life! It seems to me like this would've shown up in practices while going up against our defensive carnivores and fixed long before game day.

Form what i heard it did show up in practice. Apparently they thought our Dline was just all world and had no concerns about it. They were wrong..

 

[Biopsyman]

Bman, seriously after watching the App State game and seeing jailbreak after jailbreak of defenders coming through the interior gaps, you are worried about the RT position?

Yes, just wait when we play against real NFL type DE's.. Kendrick is a G playing T... Slow

 

[BruisedOrange]

No one is going to duplicate what Appy's D did to our OL unless they are undersized and very quick. I know, sounds crazy.

Undersized Appy took the field with only one DL advantage: quickness. They multiplied that advantage by causing us to play an extra half-second slower.

They made us slower by creating mental hesitation along our line by shifting right before the snap. I think that's why Coleman had an especially poor-looking game, if (and I believe it is) his responsibility is to call out the blocking assignments. Appy forced our linemen to be constantly processing changing information right up to the snap of the ball. That's a much different problem than facing Shoop's D in practice, where the pieces are stable in front of you, and your focus is on reading and communicating in reaction to what they do after the snap.

Great sports always have a roshambo (rock-paper-scissors) dimension. There's always something that can beat or negate another team's strength. In O-line play you could make a case that technique negates size, size negates speed, speed negates technique. Appy brought paper to face our rock, as much against our scheme as in individual matchups. Our offense doesn't require linemen to hold their blocks long, but it does require them to block specific defenders on time.

To appreciate their speed, how many times did Appy's nose tackle--NOSE TACKLE!--make plays on the edges, far from the interior? They also maximized their smallness by forcing our linemen to block them in space. Think chasing rats in an empty room--the larger the room the greater the advantage of being small and quick.

I don't think our O-line was exposed Thursday night, because I don't think we'll face another team that's schemed and manned to do what Appy State does. If Appy faces a team fronted by large, slow bulldozers committed to a zone blocking scheme, they will be dominated, regardless of how quick or shifty they are.

Credit Appy State for maximizing their disadvantages against superior talent. We'll send far more players to the next level, but they'll recruit the quickest undersized linemen that have no shot in the SEC and ride 'em to 9, 10 sure wins year-after-year.

 

[VolFanNC09]

The biggest problems looked like Thomas. If he was playing hurt that was bad. You can see he just could not control the smaller/quicker App state DT's. hoping it was just that he was injured. Why the heck would you play him though, we have better options like Weisman as center and Jack jones over to OG if Thomas is injured.

 

[savannahfan]

Alot of the problems had to do with how limited the play calling was. Dobbs was handcuffed from running to prevent injury that was obvious. So Appalachian state had a huge advantage in that all they had to do was key in on the backs. Do you remember what this offense was like when Worley was running it? Thats what happened Thursday, its going to be fine.

Still does not explain why a smaller (maybe a little faster?) def. seemed to just do as they pleased all night long. If in fact, our off.line is good enough to " win the east".

 

[TAF]

They need to be run till they puke...

Then, they need to revisit fundamental O-Line disciplines.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

If the report is true that Thomas played on a high ankle sprain, I'm not nearly as concerned as I was Thursday night. There are certainly problems to address, but it's not time to panic.

If the coaches played an o-lineman with a high-ankle sprain all game, even after he continued to crap the bed... they should be taken to Singapore and caned.

 

[savannahfan]

No one is going to duplicate what Appy's D did to our OL unless they are undersized and very quick. I know, sounds crazy.

Undersized Appy took the field with only one DL advantage: quickness. They multiplied that advantage by causing us to play an extra half-second slower.

They made us slower by creating mental hesitation along our line by shifting right before the snap. I think that's why Coleman had an especially poor-looking game, if (and I believe it is) his responsibility is to call out the blocking assignments. Appy forced our linemen to be constantly processing changing information right up to the snap of the ball. That's a much different problem than facing Shoop's D in practice, where the pieces are stable in front of you, and your focus is on reading and communicating in reaction to what they do after the snap.

Great sports always have a roshambo (rock-paper-scissors) dimension. There's always something that can beat or negate another team's strength. In O-line play you could make a case that technique negates size, size negates speed, speed negates technique. Appy brought paper to face our rock, as much against our scheme as in individual matchups. Our offense doesn't require linemen to hold their blocks long, but it does require them to block specific defenders on time.

To appreciate their speed, how many times did Appy's nose tackle--NOSE TACKLE!--make plays on the edges, far from the interior? They also maximized their smallness by forcing our linemen to block them in space. Think chasing rats in an empty room--the larger the room the greater the advantage of being small and quick.

I don't think our O-line was exposed Thursday night, because I don't think we'll face another team that's schemed and manned to do what Appy State does. If Appy faces a team fronted by large, slow bulldozers committed to a zone blocking scheme, they will be dominated, regardless of how quick or shifty they are.

Credit Appy State for maximizing their disadvantages against superior talent. We'll send far more players to the next level, but they'll recruit the quickest undersized linemen that have no shot in the SEC and ride 'em to 9, 10 sure wins year-after-year.

Best post I have read. Addresses every question I have had about the o line. However you would think we would be just a little smarter after the years of experience and "coaching?" we have. If we did not try to "bulldoze" with Hurd ( to little success) then what was it?

 

[BeardedVol]

We've not seen any o-line improvement in 4 years, even with the addition of talent. Don Mahoney would struggle to find work as a JUCO line coach if Butch did keep him on staff at every school he's been to.

 

[KBVol]

The biggest problem seemed to be right up the middle. Coleman Thomas played well there at the end of last year. Don't know what happened Thursday night. Dobbs hardly ever got to set his feet.. Richmond got beat a few times but you would expect that for a first start ever. Thomas was killing us in the middle.

This is spot on. That's what concerned me the most....the 3 most experienced guys who were supposed to anchor the line in the middle, Robertson, Wiesman and especially Coleman, we're just awful. I take it they'll play much, much better beginning next week, but you have to ask how in the world a DL giving up 55 lbs per man could literally physically dominate our OL, especially our interior guys.