Can Heupel retrain JoeMilton to NOT make his throw decision BEFORE the snap?.

[HiltonHeadVol]

This is a huge key for this season. I'll ask those of you out there who have coached before......can you coach a player OUT of making the decision where he will throw the ball before he has even received the snap? I went back and studied JMilton's film from the MSU game last year (2nd game - before his thumb injury) to see if he had eye discipline on his reads. And what I saw and heard from the analyst on the call was that he often makes the decision of where the ball is going BEFORE he has even received the snap. This explains why he often throws into double coverage in last years games. So it is clear he does this routinely (hey I couldn't do his job, but this is an important question).....can he be retaught to stop doing that and go thru his reads? Against even average SEC defenses, this will get you beat every time. I'm hoping Coach Heap got this corrected before we start the season.
One thing I liked about Hooker is that he pretty much goes thru his reads and often chooses the 2nd and 3rd receiver.
Curious to hear what those in the know think about how fixable this is.

 

[ChrissyJ2k]

I will bet heupel also watch the tape and has made vasst improvements in this arena

 

[fossilfiction]

I am not a coach but you will find out in about 7 hours.

 

[BDP!]

I believe that’s an issue that can be corrected. Generally, what I tried to teach high school QBs to do is where not to throw the ball in their pre snap reads.

 

[BeardedVol]

This is a huge key for this season. I'll ask those of you out there who have coached before......can you coach a player OUT of making the decision where he will throw the ball before he has even received the snap? I went back and studied JMilton's film from the MSU game last year (2nd game - before his thumb injury) to see if he had eye discipline on his reads. And what I saw and heard from the analyst on the call was that he often makes the decision of where the ball is going BEFORE he has even received the snap. This explains why he often throws into double coverage in last years games. So it is clear he does this routinely (hey I couldn't do his job, but this is an important question).....can he be retaught to stop doing that and go thru his reads? Against even average SEC defenses, this will get you beat every time. I'm hoping Coach Heap got this corrected before we start the season.
One thing I liked about Hooker is that he pretty much goes thru his reads and often chooses the 2nd and 3rd receiver.
Curious to hear what those in the know think about how fixable this is.

Question, what about this particular analyst and/or their qualifications, makes you believe their 2nd-hand evaluation of Milton while he was at Michigan, over that of the the 1st-hand evaluations of the UT coaching staff whom have been working with Milton since April?

 

[BruisedOrange]

Peyton Manning knew where he would be throwing the ball before the snap. Most higher-level QBs do. That's what it means to "read the defense."

Now, eye-discipline would be a different thing.

Milton should have been doing things like looking off the safety, or otherwise sending defenders misleading signals. If he was telegraphing his throws with his eyes (which is what QBs do when they aren't trusting their pre-snap read) that would require some change.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

JG did that to. Never got coached out of it but probably never had a coach that recognized it as a problem.

 

[sona]

I think he is starting because Heupel sees huge potential in him. Hopefully, he has refined and honed his play to the point that we have a weapon at QB. My reservations are based on his HS stats and what he showed at Michigan. Glowing practice reports don't move the needle for him at this point.

 

[OH-Vol]

This would be just too strange to watch. After 4 years, I am used to watching a QB lock in on Target, hold the ball for 6 seconds, tap the ball 9 times, then fire a 90 mph fastball over the WR's head.

 

[volinthenorth]

From what I understand, our offense is designed to do some quick pre-snap reads and there are only one or two choices based upon that. I thought that one of the features of our offense was its simplicity after the snap. The QB only has time to look at two progressions and then he is supposed to throw it. Am i wrong about that?

 

[Southern_Accent]

From what I understand, our offense is designed to do some quick pre-snap reads and there are only one or two choices based upon that. I thought that one of the features of our offense was its simplicity after the snap. The QB only has time to look at two progressions and then he is supposed to throw it. Am i wrong about that?

Nope you are spot on and this is what I came here to say. This offense is nowhere near as complicated as the pro style offense he ran at Michigan. He will know pre snap where the ball is going most of the time. On some of heup's pass plays the two reciecers on the side of the field where the ball isn't going wont even really run routes. Thats why this offense is so qb friendly.

 

[goldvol]

I'm not a coach and find it hilarious that you only want actual coaches to respond on volnation .
In fact, i never played high school football. But when I watched two games of highlights from Michigan, i didn't once see him start looking at the y receiver, then go through his reads. Or even look left knowing that his intention was to through to the right. Nope, he just stared down the intended receiver the entire play. Let's hope he got some coaching

 

[VolFanNC09]

Nope he can't. Impossible to do. Joe already made those decisions last night for each snap.

edit: Well he didn’t look down 1 WR. It seems he was looking at all the WRs and in the stands and just randomly looking around at nothing. Just not realizing at times he should throw the ball to the open guy in orange…

 

[09dunbar]

Let’s hope he already has.

 

[AstonRoyal]

From what I understand, our offense is designed to do some quick pre-snap reads and there are only one or two choices based upon that. I thought that one of the features of our offense was its simplicity after the snap. The QB only has time to look at two progressions and then he is supposed to throw it. Am i wrong about that?

It's definitely designed for quick decisions but from what I can tell, a key is checking it down to the running back if you don't have anything so be on the lookout for a lot of check downs.

 

[TnVol!]

Peyton Manning struggled his freshman year.

 

[Orange defense]

As a coach of flag football, youth football league, and Dixie youth football league for 20 years, yes you can actually slow down the thought process of a quarterback to throw already before the snap. Here is what I mean by that. Say you have receivers stacked and split all over the field and your qb wants to throw that pass to a certain receiver before the ball is snapped, then you change his approach. Here is how it can be taught, and it’s easily done. You just simply teach a young one to stop looking and eying one receiver Dow the field, and while he steps back, look at everyone going out, then look for the wide open man. It has to be done quickly and fast. You just have to teach them to quickly look away from the receiver that you want to throw to, and try to get that safety off from that receiver. That is another way to do it, and I’ve taught that for a long time.

 

[IndianaVol]

If you want to see how this offense is supposed to work, go back and watch the Tampa Bay Bucs from last year or the Colts from the Manning era, Pats from the Brady era, Chargers from when Rivers was hitting, etc.

When lining up, the QB will pre-read the defense and see where and what they are lining up into and make most of the decision of where the ball is going from that pre-snap read (commonly called taking what the defense gives you). Once the ball is snapped he has to have the discipline to follow through with that read, see if it is a good read, decide to throw to that read or check down the progression. When well executed it can give a QB an additional 5 or 6 seconds to make decisions. One way of looking at it is that it actually slows the game down for the QB while speeding it up for the opposing defense since most times the QB is throwing in the first 2 to 4 seconds after the snap.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

This is a huge key for this season. I'll ask those of you out there who have coached before......can you coach a player OUT of making the decision where he will throw the ball before he has even received the snap? I went back and studied JMilton's film from the MSU game last year (2nd game - before his thumb injury) to see if he had eye discipline on his reads. And what I saw and heard from the analyst on the call was that he often makes the decision of where the ball is going BEFORE he has even received the snap. This explains why he often throws into double coverage in last years games. So it is clear he does this routinely (hey I couldn't do his job, but this is an important question).....can he be retaught to stop doing that and go thru his reads? Against even average SEC defenses, this will get you beat every time. I'm hoping Coach Heap got this corrected before we start the season.
One thing I liked about Hooker is that he pretty much goes thru his reads and often chooses the 2nd and 3rd receiver.
Curious to hear what those in the know think about how fixable this is.

Everything is fixable with proper coaching...except size. Speed can be improved, strength can be gained and knowledge can be retained. However all three must be correctly coached or youve wasted a bunch of time for very little of any gain.

Players vary in how they learn. One size coaching does not fit all...something our last head coach struggled to understand IMO.

I dont know how good or bad Milton is but i do know CJH has had success with his qb at each stop. Ans those qbs were not carbon copy images of each other.

So unless there are things behind the scenes im unaware of, CJH will be able to train Milton to a suitable level.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Nope he can't. Impossible to do. Joe already made those decisions last night for each snap.

Exactly.

It is impossible to coach players..

 

[Proud Army Wife]

Peyton Manning knew where he would be throwing the ball before the snap. Most higher-level QBs do. That's what it means to "read the defense."

Now, eye-discipline would be a different thing.

Milton should have been doing things like looking off the safety, or otherwise sending defenders misleading signals. If he was telegraphing his throws with his eyes (which is what QBs do when they aren't trusting their pre-snap read) that would require some change.

Peyton also had a ridiculously good ability of reading the defense before the snap.

 

[RhodesVol]

If you want to see how this offense is supposed to work, go back and watch the Tampa Bay Bucs from last year or the Colts from the Manning era, Pats from the Brady era, Chargers from when Rivers was hitting, etc.

When lining up, the QB will pre-read the defense and see where and what they are lining up into and make most of the decision of where the ball is going from that pre-snap read (commonly called taking what the defense gives you). Once the ball is snapped he has to have the discipline to follow through with that read, see if it is a good read, decide to throw to that read or check down the progression. When well executed it can give a QB an additional 5 or 6 seconds to make decisions. One way of looking at it is that it actually slows the game down for the QB while speeding it up for the opposing defense since most times the QB is throwing in the first 2 to 4 seconds after the snap.

I don't disagree with your analysis whatsoever. The only distinction is that this offense isn't a "pro-style" offense. It's predicated on speed. They want to get to the ball, snap it, and run the play as fast as they possibly can. So, the analysis of what play to call runs off of the coaches' read of what the defense is showing. Then, as I understand it, the destination for the ball (on passes) is essentially predetermined. I don't think they are necessarily trying to provide a complicated route tree, with progressions, so much as they want to determine a mismatch pre-snap, isolate that as the target, and then hopefully capitalize.

Now, I don't know how all of that looks when plays break down. I wonder what a scramble drill looks like; from what I understand due to Milton's arm strength it involves receivers running downfield. Still, I think we just can only see how it plays out. Maybe he stares down is first read. Maybe that is a problem. For whatever reason, I think that we may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[TNTodd]

From what I understand, our offense is designed to do some quick pre-snap reads and there are only one or two choices based upon that. I thought that one of the features of our offense was its simplicity after the snap. The QB only has time to look at two progressions and then he is supposed to throw it. Am i wrong about that?

i agree…I thought the point of the fast pace was to catch the defense off guard…find the guy out of spot or the miss match and throw it to that guy. So if he is reading the D correctly he will be fine.

 

[sjt18]

Well... that's a "half right". The really great QB's will tell you that they usually know where they're going before the snap of the ball. It is usually something you try to enhance rather than get rid of. Guys who are bad at pre-snap reads like JG was for most of his time at UT... kill your O.

If Milton was bad at pre-snap reads then that's probably a fixable problem. If he was bad at post-snap reads that's probably a fixable problem. The answer is NEVER to get him to not make pre-snap reads.

 

[LowKey]

He's got this.