Bye Kansas Basketball

#53
#53
n_huffhines said:
Duke players probably get 3x the exposure Kentucky and UNC get. No one is on Duke's level. Everyone knows Cam Reddish and he was Duke's 3rd guy. I honestly can't name one Kansas player. If you named their best player, I'd probably say "oh, yeah."
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Yep. IMO, there are four blue bloods in CBB...Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Kansas, in that order. Every school has blue as their primary color too.
 
#54
#54
RDU VOL#14 said:
I like you and usually agree with you, but none of those teams you listed made the final four. And every single team that made the final four could’ve beaten the Vols.

Also, be careful what you wish for when talking about who is doing it right and who isn’t . Some of those programs you talked have been popped in the past and one hasnt ever been looked at, but they all have something in common. They all have championships. We don’t even a Final Four visit and that has zero to do with other programs.
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I don't think I've seen any fanbase overrate a sports program based on a couple of seasons more than our fans have done with basketball the last couple years.

Don't get me wrong - I loved those 2 teams and Barnes was a great hire for this program (even if he almost left after last year). But reading the basketball forum, you'd think we are now a top 5 program all time, slotting in right after the blue bloods or something. As you said, we've never even made a Final Four for crying out loud, and made the Elite Eight once. We haven't won the SECT since 1979 and have been regular season champs just 3 times since 2000. As good as the previous 2 teams were, neither won a conference tourney or made it beyond the Sweet 16. Damn, we are desperate for an elite team at anything right now.
 
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#55
#55
05_never_again said:
I don't think I've seen any fanbase overrate a sports program based on a couple of seasons more than our fans have done with basketball the last couple years.

Don't get me wrong - I loved those 2 teams and Barnes was a great hire for this program (even if he almost left after last year). But reading the basketball forum, you'd think we are now a top 5 program all time, slotting in right after the blue bloods or something. As you said, we've never even made a Final Four for crying out loud, and made the Elite Eight once. We haven't won the SECT since 1979 and have been regular season champs just 3 times since 2000. As good as the previous 2 teams were, neither won a conference tourney or made it beyond the Sweet 16. Damn, we are desperate for an elite team at anything right now.
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It’s awesome to be excited about things when they are going well. I certainly hate to put our fans down for being passionate about winning and having expectations, but there is a massive level of delusion that takes place when it comes to the Men’s basketball program. Like you said, and I believe as well, we are so thirsty for a winner we will grasp at any hint of a winner and hold on for dear life.
Barnes really has it going right now, but we still have no hardware to show for it . Right now a good season for us is bragging about beating UK. A bad season for Duke, UNC, and UK is not raising a banner . There’s a big difference. That’s what pisses me off when people talk about us being a basketball school. Just because the best program on campus is MBB, but that doesn’t make us a b-ball school. Right now we are just twisting in the wind hoping like hell for a big winner.

We really needed that Purdue game last year. That would’ve given us an opportunity for a program changing season.
 
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#56
#56
RDU VOL#14 said:
It’s awesome to be excited about things when they are going well. I certainly hate to put our fans down for being passionate about winning and having expectations, but there is a massive level of delusion that takes place when it comes to the Men’s basketball program. Like you said, and I believe as well, we are so thirsty for a winner we will grasp at any hint of a winner and hold on for dear life.
Barnes really has it going right now, but we still have no hardware to show for it . Right now a good season for us is bragging about beating UK. A bad season for Duke, UNC, and UK is not raising a banner . There’s a big difference. That’s what pisses me off when people talk about us being a basketball school. Just because the best program on campus is MBB, but that doesn’t make us a b-ball school. Right now we are just twisting in the wind hoping like hell for a big winner.

We really needed that Purdue game last year. That would’ve given us an opportunity for a program changing season.
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What stinks is that the 2018-19 team was probably, what, a top 3 team all time in the history of the school? But when you get down to brass tacks, they actually won nothing - not a regular season title, conference title, or even making it beyond the second weekend of the tournament. As you said, that team's biggest accomplishment was a couple victories over Kentucky and being ranked #1 for 8 weeks. At true basketball schools, that's considered a promising but unfulfilling season. If that's one of the best teams your program has ever fielded, then you aren't a basketball school. And that's OK, because when you get down to business (literally) no school actually wants to be a basketball school. Even Duke's football program still brings in more money than their basketball program. There's way more money to be made in football than basketball.

In contrast, Duke's fifteenth best team in school history is a team that probably won the ACCT and made a Final Four.
 
#57
#57
n_huffhines said:
Duke players probably get 3x the exposure Kentucky and UNC get. No one is on Duke's level. Everyone knows Cam Reddish and he was Duke's 3rd guy. I honestly can't name one Kansas player. If you named their best player, I'd probably say "oh, yeah."
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Any true college basketball fan knew of Andrew Wiggins and Joel Embiid in 2014. Kansas is a blue blood, but Self definitely hasn't had the recruiting abilities of K or Calipari recently. Ole Roy hasn't even had success remotely at their level. That said, Kansas will be one of the most all around balanced teams in the NCAA this year. They'll be REALLY, REALLY good. However, while they'll have talented NBA caliber players, none will shine like Zion, Barrett and Reddish did for Duke last year.
 
#58
#58
volfanbill said:
Any true college basketball fan knew of Andrew Wiggins and Joel Embiid in 2014. Kansas is a blue blood, but Self definitely hasn't had the recruiting abilities of K or Calipari recently. Ole Roy hasn't even had success remotely at their level. That said, Kansas will be one of the most all around balanced teams in the NCAA this year. They'll be REALLY, REALLY good. However, while they'll have talented NBA caliber players, none will shine like Zion, Barrett and Reddish did for Duke last year.
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Not everyone wants to try and win a title with all freshmen each year. When you look back at past success a lot can be said of building your program from within with 3 and 4-year type talent and finish it off with a phenom or two each year. Bill Self and Roy Williams want that type of team. I think Self's failures in the tourny has been about handling the pressure of expectations. I will be the first to say he hasn't won enough titles for the dominate teams he's built.

Duke, has just recently gone to more of the Kentucky blueprint. He arguably just finished with the most talented team he has ever coached and that would be saying a mouthful. But like Calipari, just too many diaper dandies to count on for the toughness and experience needed in crunch time.
 
#59
#59
TUSKtimes said:
Not everyone wants to try and win a title with all freshmen each year. When you look back at past success a lot can be said of building your program from within with 3 and 4-year type talent and finish it off with a phenom or two each year. Bill Self and Roy Williams want that type of team. I think Self's failures in the tourny has been about handling the pressure of expectations. I will be the first to say he hasn't won enough titles for the dominate teams he's built.

Duke, has just recently gone to more of the Kentucky blueprint. He arguably just finished with the most talented team he has ever coached and that would be saying a mouthful. But like Calipari, just too many diaper dandies to count on for the toughness and experience needed in crunch time.
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He’s won a couple times the freshmen way. The Big Dance is such a giant crapshoot. It’s rare a top three in season team ever wins
 
#62
#62
volfanbill said:
K
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There was a time that Coach K despised the one and done. In Krzyzewski’s previous 30 seasons at the school, only two of his players—Corey Maggette (in 1999) and Luol Deng (in 2004)—had bolted for the NBA after playing just one season for him. In fact, Blue Devils players leaving early for the NBA at all was once so contentious that Elton Brand’s departure after two seasons, in ’99, sparked an infamous written exchange with a disgruntled alum. Krzyzewski had even prevented a banner for Duke’s 1990 Final Four run from being hung in Cameron Indoor Stadium until all of that team’s seniors had received their degrees, which meant it wasn’t raised until 1999.

Duke kept frosh minutes at about 14% of the yearly team's total in the 4th NC in 2010.

Duke frosh minutes rose to 50% of the yearly team's total minutes in their last NC in 2015.

This last year with Zion and Company frosh minutes rose to 68% of the yearly total.

Calipari's Kentucky blueprint is around 80 frosh minutes of the total team minutes for the year.

Both have one NC with at least 50% frosh minutes making up team total for the year.
 
#63
#63
TUSKtimes said:
There was a time that Coach K despised the one and done. In Krzyzewski’s previous 30 seasons at the school, only two of his players—Corey Maggette (in 1999) and Luol Deng (in 2004)—had bolted for the NBA after playing just one season for him. In fact, Blue Devils players leaving early for the NBA at all was once so contentious that Elton Brand’s departure after two seasons, in ’99, sparked an infamous written exchange with a disgruntled alum. Krzyzewski had even prevented a banner for Duke’s 1990 Final Four run from being hung in Cameron Indoor Stadium until all of that team’s seniors had received their degrees, which meant it wasn’t raised until 1999.

Duke kept frosh minutes at about 14% of the yearly team's total in the 4th NC in 2010.

Duke frosh minutes rose to 50% of the yearly team's total minutes in their last NC in 2015.

This last year with Zion and Company frosh minutes rose to 68% of the yearly total.

Calipari's Kentucky blueprint is around 80 frosh minutes of the total team minutes for the year.

Both have one NC with at least 50% frosh minutes making up team total for the year.
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The game changed and K had to adapt. I don’t think he really cares for it, but his job is to win games. The real story that everyone likes to talk about in 99 was William Avery leaving unexpectedly and there allegedly being a huge shouting match between K and Avery and his family that puts Knon a bad light. That 99-00 team would’ve been pretty good with Will Avery, Jay Williams, Corey Maggette, ACC POY Chris Carrawell, Shane Battier and Carlos Boozer with Dunleavy coming off the bench.
 
#64
#64
RDU VOL#14 said:
The game changed and K had to adapt. I don’t think he really cares for it, but his job is to win games. The real story that everyone likes to talk about in 99 was William Avery leaving unexpectedly and there allegedly being a huge shouting match between K and Avery and his family that puts Knon a bad light. That 99-00 team would’ve been pretty good with Will Avery, Jay Williams, Corey Maggette, ACC POY Chris Carrawell, Shane Battier and Carlos Boozer with Dunleavy coming off the bench.
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Frankly, only a few blueblood programs can pull it off. First, you have to pretty much corner the market on the McDonald's All-American club, each year. Not many programs can do it. The game has changed. The sneaker money challenging elite players to follow the brand is a new innovative way of getting the one and done talent. Coach K has got to be crawling inside to watch his earlier principles and models about student-athletes being discarded.
 
#66
#66
When Bill Self retires, that job will be very attractive and Kansas will have their choice of top flight coaches from the collegiate and professional ranks.
 
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#67
#67
Boston Vol said:
There years probation. No postseason ban. No loss of scholarships. No further punishment for Bill Self.
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As usual, the NCAA is a joke and needs to be eliminated now. Toothless is a kind word for them these days. If I was an AD at a school that got caught, I’d sue the 💩 out of them on the precedent they set by not punishing North Carolina, Kansas and LSU. Schools caught red handed and got a slap on the wrist or nothing.
 
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#69
#69
Delmar said:
Interesting article here:

www.usatoday.com

Instead of embracing FBI's 'College Basketball Columbo,' NCAA should have faced reality

Six years ago, FBI agents were arresting basketball coaches while the NCAA world cheered them on. Reality smacked the NCAA on Wednesday.
www.usatoday.com
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That Dan Wolken lyingly attributes what went down as a result of massive NCAA corruption in these cases to naiveté is an extraordinarily naive corrupt act in its own right.

Fortunately for Kansas and other schools that went through the IARP process, the panelists did not, in fact, have any understanding of how college sports actually work.
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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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#70
#70
What does Self taste like, Danny Wolken?

The Kentucky football coach said something. "Better spin that into a hack defense of Kansas basketball."

Wolken out there front-running the NCAA's deliberate system of empowering favorites to cheat with impunity. That's rigging.
 
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#71
#71
Orange. said:
That Dan Wolken lyingly attributes what went down as a result of massive NCAA corruption in these cases to naiveté is an extraordinarily naive corrupt act in its own right.


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Unless I misread it, I thought he was saying it was the ignorance of the IARP panel that allowed Kansas to skate. Same bunch that allowed One Cent Hardaway to get off light. Supposedly a school at one time could petition them to render a judgement rather than going through the NCAA Punishment process. I thought that group was being eliminated but maybe not. Either way it doesn’t change the fact that the NCAA is a clueless, toothless tiger.
 
#72
#72
Delmar said:
Unless I misread it, I thought he was saying it was the ignorance of the IARP panel that allowed Kansas to skate. Same bunch that allowed One Cent Hardaway to get off light. Supposedly a school at one time could petition them to render a judgement rather than going through the NCAA Punishment process. I thought that group was being eliminated but maybe not. Either way it doesn’t change the fact that the NCAA is a clueless, toothless tiger.
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Yes Wolken is claiming it was ignorance (naiveté), not deliberate rigging; and also that the NCAA was not responsible. It was an NCAA scheme to let them walk and (as a second criminal act) to deny their own responsibility. Liars and cheats. And prolly got some nice bags and perks for their trouble. If the NCAA wanted to penalize their pet, they would have done so. If the fronting organization they set up to do their dirty work came back with something criminal (that is, turning a blind eye) like they did, the NCAA could have just said No, and made the facts of the cases public. I think they arranged things so that the facts were concealed.

Anyway, what the NCAA did by giving Kansas (and the others) a carte blanche seriously damaged the credibility of the college basketball and the Tournament where the NCAA knowingly and willfully awarded a title to those crooks. It's a perfect example of how extremely competent the schools who comprise the NCAA actually are at permitting favorites to cheat with impunity. While crackung down on others. The NCAA is anything but "clueless." And it only plays "toothless" in the con jobs they perpetrate.

You have the whole thing backwards. But, yes, that completely backwards cover story is exactly what Wolken is peddling, using some stray football remark as a bizarre pretext.
 
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#73
#73
@Delmar Hey, I'm not fussing at you. I'm pissed at the NCAA covering for Kansas. Do this thought experiment. Set it down as a hypothesis that the NCAA did not want to drop the hammer on one of their 4 "bluebloods," and consider how that could be done while looking "helpless."

I suspect you'll see how what happened aligns with that pretty darn well. The NCAA is the schools. The basketball tournament is their largest source of income. Kansas is a huge TV draw.
 
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