Buzz Williams Put on Probation

#2
#2
I can't believe the NCAA's Committee on Infractions would adjudicate something like this, before addressing the 3 year old elephant in the room, known as the FBI wiretap recording between Christian Dawkins and Will Wade, concerning Wade's "strong a$$ offer" to Javonte Smart. The situation with Wade predates these violations by Buzz Williams and Texas A&M by more than a year, and involves more serious violations, that should be easier to prove.

The NCAA plays favorites with their selective enforcement. No doubt about that.
 
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#3
#3
BowlBrother85 said:
I can't believe the NCAA's Committee on Infractions would adjudicate something like this, before addressing the 3 year old elephant in the room, known as the FBI wiretap recording between Christian Dawkins and Will Wade, concerning Wade's "strong a$$ offer" to Javonte Smart. The situation with Wade predates these violations by Buzz Williams and Texas A&M by more than a year, and involves more serious violations, that should be easier to prove.

The NCAA plays favorites with their selective enforcement. No doubt about that.
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The NCAA has no subpoena power. Those FBI tapes were damning but basically inadmissible.
 
#4
#4
butchna said:
The NCAA has no subpoena power. Those FBI tapes were damning but basically inadmissible.
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Inadmissible to what proceeding? The NCAA doesn't operate as a court of law from within a system of justice. They don't have subpoena power, but in this case involving Will Wade and Christian Dawkins, they don't need it. The recordings from the FBI wiretaps have been a matter of public record since the HBO documentary premiered in April of 2020. Christian Dawkins has gone on the public record, further implicating Will Wade in interviews which were included in that same HBO documentary. That was 16 months ago. There is NOTHING which is currently holding the NCAA Committee on Infractions back from concluding that Will Wade violated NCAA rules, and then sanctioning both Wade and the LSU men's basketball program for those violations.
 
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#5
#5
BowlBrother85 said:
Inadmissible to what proceeding? The NCAA doesn't operate as a court of law from within a system of justice. They don't have subpoena power, but in this case involving Will Wade and Christian Dawkins, they don't need it. The recordings from the FBI wiretaps have been in the public realm since the HBO documentary premiered in April of 2020. Christian Dawkins has gone on the public record, further incriminating Will Wade in interviews which were included in that same HBO documentary. That was 16 months ago. There is NOTHING which is currently holding the NCAA Committee on Infractions back from concluding that Will Wade violated NCAA rules, and then sanctioning both Wade and the LSU men's basketball program for those violations.
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Inadmissible as in Barry Bonds was guilty as sin for steroid use and said so in court. BUT we only know that because a reporter could hear the proceedings through a wall. They posted the story and it was PUBLIC REALM but inadmissible against him when he was charged with perjury for denying PED usage. The NCAA can’t even REFER to the undercover FBI tapes in their own investigation.
 
#6
#6
butchna said:
Inadmissible as in Barry Bonds was guilty as sin for steroid use and said so in court. BUT we only know that because a reporter could hear the proceedings through a wall. They posted the story and it was PUBLIC REALM but inadmissible against him when he was charged with perjury for denying PED usage. The NCAA can’t even REFER to the undercover FBI tapes in their own investigation.
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Yes, they can... if those recorded conversations are currently a matter of public record, and they have a corroborating witness, such as Christian Dawkins, providing context to what is heard on those recordings. The NCAA is not a law enforcement organization bound by such restrictions. They can introduce anything as evidence which is a matter of public record, whether it came to light through the course of their own investigation, or someone else's (such as the FBI).
 
#7
#7
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes, they can... if those recorded conversations are currently a matter of public record, and they have a corroborating witness, such as Christian Dawkins, providing context to what is heard on those recordings. The NCAA is not a legal body bound by such restrictions. They can introduce anything as evidence which is a matter of public record, whether it came to light through the course of their own investigation, or someone else's (such as the FBI).
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I doubt you. Give me an example where they did what you’re espousing.
 
#8
#8
butchna said:
I doubt you. Give me an example where they did what you’re espousing.
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The Barry Bonds example doesn't have anything to do with this. The NCAA doesn't enforce the law. Will Wade isn't going to jail. Neither is Buzz Williams. The NCAA has a committee which enforces their rules against member institutions who are alleged to have violated them. That committee can use any information which is a matter of public record, as evidence in proving that member institutions have violated those rules. They are not investigating crimes here... just their own rule violations.
 
#9
#9
BowlBrother85 said:
The Barry Bonds example doesn't have anything to do with this. The NCAA doesn't enforce the law. Will Wade isn't going to jail. Neither is Buzz Williams. The NCAA has a committee which enforces their rules against member institutions who are alleged to have violated them. That committee can use any information which is a matter of public record, as evidence in proving that member institutions have violated those rules. They are not investigating crimes here... just their own rule violations.
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You have to have ADMISSABLE EVIDENCE and you’ve cited Dawkins? The guy’s already gone to jail and still hopes to work in the business even tho he can’t serve as an agent. Why would he CORROBORATE anything and destroy a potential resource? You keep reiterating what a committee can do. What are you basing this on? Every sanctions heavy penalty case I’ve ever seen had viable paper trails. How many wiretap based bowl bans can you cite?
 
#10
#10
butchna said:
You have to have ADMISSABLE EVIDENCE and you’ve cited Dawkins? The guy’s already gone to jail and still hopes to work in the business even tho he can’t serve as an agent. Why would he CORROBORATE anything and destroy a potential resource? You keep reiterating what a committee can do. What are you basing this on? Every sanctions heavy penalty case I’ve ever seen had viable paper trails. How many wiretap based bowl bans can you cite?
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What are you talking about when you say "admissible evidence"? Admissible to what forum? This doesn't involve criminal allegations with legal proceedings conducted before a presiding judge. This is the NCAA's forum. They decide what is or isn't "admissible". If it's something which has become a matter of public record, and it is relevant towards proving NCAA violations were committed by representatives of a member institution? Then it can and will be used by the Committee on Infractions to make their case. The NCAA is not a law enforcement body, bound by the restrictions which you are suggesting.

Christian Dawkins already did provide context to his wiretapped conversations with Sean Miller and Will Wade, in the HBO documentary which aired in early April of 2020. Dawkins implicated both Miller and Wade as having offered impermissible financial inducements to high school recruits.

This is a unique case, because the FBI usually doesn't concern itself with NCAA improprieties... but you are dead wrong when you say that the NCAA's Committee on Infractions can't use evidence of rule violations to make their case against a member institution, once that evidence has become a matter of public record... as it did in April of 2020.
 
#11
#11
BowlBrother85 said:
What are you talking about when you say "admissible evidence"? Admissible to what forum? This doesn't involve criminal allegations with legal proceedings conducted before a presiding judge. This is the NCAA's forum. They decide what is or isn't "admissible". If it's something which has become a matter of public record, and it is relevant towards proving NCAA violations were committed by representatives of a member institution? Then it can and will be used by the Committee on Infractions to make their case. The NCAA is not a law enforcement body, bound by the restrictions which you are suggesting.

Christian Dawkins already did provide context to his wiretapped conversations with Sean Miller and Will Wade, in the HBO documentary which aired in early April of 2020. Dawkins implicated both Miller and Wade as having offered impermissible financial inducements to high school recruits.

This is a unique case, because the FBI usually doesn't concern itself with NCAA improprieties... but you are dead wrong when you say that the NCAA's Committee on Infractions can't use evidence of rule violations to make their case against a member institution, once that evidence has become a matter of public record... as it did in April of 2020.
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He has to corroborate in a sworn deposition and he has no motive to burn bridges by doing so. They can’t pull it off the internet. The FBI isn’t playing ball with the NCAA or this would already be done. The NCAA is BOUND by what their actual POWERS are…and that’s very little in this case.
 
#12
#12
butchna said:
He has to corroborate in a sworn deposition and he has no motive to burn bridges by doing so. They can’t pull it off the internet. The FBI isn’t playing ball with the NCAA or this would already be done. The NCAA is BOUND by what their actual POWERS are…and that’s very little in this case.
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This is wrong. The NCAA's Committee on Infractions can use the content of the wiretapped recordings of Christian Dawkins and both Will Wade and Sean Miller discussing financial inducements to high school recruits. The NCAA has the power to police their member institutions to ensure that their rules are being followed. The NCAA's Committee on Infractions has the power to use publicly available information in building their case against member institutions who they believe have violated their rules.
 
#13
#13
BowlBrother85 said:
This is wrong. The NCAA's Committee on Infractions can use the content of the wiretapped recordings of Christian Dawkins and both Will Wade and Sean Miller discussing financial inducements to high school recruits. The NCAA has the power to police their member institutions to ensure that their rules are being followed. The NCAA's Committee on Infractions has the power to use publicly available information in building their case against member institutions who they believe have violated their rules.
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I’m maintaining they can’t because they don’t have the power to introduce wiretap evidence. Guess one of us is right.
 
#14
#14
butchna said:
I’m maintaining they can’t because they don’t have the power to introduce wiretap evidence. Guess one of us is right.
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Yes, they do... as long as the wiretaps were legally conducted, and once the content of those recordings has become accessible in the public domain. Why wouldn't they have the power to use publicly available information at their discretion?

Eric Ramsey did a lot of damage to Auburn football in 1992, with secret audio recordings of Pat Dye and Auburn boosters, which were never authenticated by the FBI.
 
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#16
#16
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes, they do... as long the wiretaps were legally conducted, and once the content of those recordings has become accessible in the public domain. Why wouldn't they have the power to use publicly available information in their own forum?

Eric Ramsey did a lot of damage to Auburn football in 1992, with secret audio recordings of Pat Dye and Auburn boosters, which were never authenticated by the FBI.
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Ramsey did that himself and then in collaboration with the NCAA. It wasn’t part of another investigation…much less federal. There is a difference. The NCAA can’t simply piggyback.
 
#17
#17
butchna said:
Ramsey did that himself and then in collaboration with the NCAA. It wasn’t part of another investigation…much less federal. There is a difference. The NCAA can’t simply piggyback.
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Citing publicly available information as evidence isn't "piggybacking".
 
#18
#18
BowlBrother85 said:
Using publicly available information as evidence isn't "piggybacking".
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Disagree with you. Currently you have garbled audio and no one to verify the identities. Piggybacking.
 
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#19
#19
butchna said:
Disagree with you. Currently you have garbled audio and no one to verify the identities. Piggybacking.
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Again, you are wrong. The audio isn't garbled (I've listened to it many times), and Christian Dawkins confirmed to HBO that the voices heard on the recordings were his own, and Will Wade's and Sean Miller's. Christian Dawkins also provided context, whenever needed, to statements made during those calls.

Why wouldn't the NCAA's Committee on Infractions be able to use publicly accessible information at their discretion, when conducting an investigation into improprieties which fall directly under the scope of their jurisdiction? The NCAA is not a law enforcement agency with subpoena power, but that is okay, because they are not investigating Will Wade for allegedly breaking the law, and they don't need subpoenas because incriminating evidence is already a matter of public record. Will Wade is being investigated for breaking rules set forth and enforced by the NCAA; a governing body of which Will Wade's employer, LSU, is a member institution.
 
#20
#20
BowlBrother85 said:
Again, you are wrong. The audio isn't garbled (I've listened to it many times), and Christian Dawkins confirmed to HBO that the voices heard on the recordings were his own, and Will Wade's and Sean Miller's. Christian Dawkins also provided context, whenever needed, to statements made during those calls.

Why wouldn't the NCAA's Committee on Infractions be able to use publicly accessible information at their discretion, when conducting an investigation into improprieties which fall directly under the scope of their jurisdiction? The NCAA is not a law enforcement agency with subpoena power, but that is okay, because they are not investigating Will Wade for allegedly breaking the law, and they don't need subpoenas because incriminating evidence is already a matter of public record. Will Wade is being investigated for breaking rules set forth and enforced by the NCAA; a governing body of which Will Wade's employer, LSU, is a member institution.
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So they subpoenaed Dawkins to confirm…oh wait they can’t. Maybe they get Wade on something else…but not this.
 
#21
#21
butchna said:
So they subpoenaed Dawkins to confirm…oh wait they can’t. Maybe they get Wade on something else…but not this.
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They don't need to subpoena Christian Dawkins. He doesn't need to be compelled to answer questions on the matter. Through his own free will, Dawkins has already gone on public record, and confirmed the authenticity of those recorded phone calls, while also providing contextual background of the conversations involved.
 
#22
#22
BowlBrother85 said:
They don't need to subpoena Christian Dawkins. He doesn't need to be compelled to answer questions on the matter. Through his own free will, Dawkins has already gone on public record, and confirmed the validity of those recorded phone calls, while also providing contextual background of the conversations involved.
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It’s just a bunch of noise and an article without his submitted statement. Can’t submit your HBO Max subscription as basis for NOA.
 
#23
#23
BowlBrother85 said:
They don't need to subpoena Christian Dawkins. He doesn't need to be compelled to answer questions on the matter. Through his own free will, Dawkins has already gone on public record, and confirmed the authenticity of those recorded phone calls, while also providing contextual background of the conversations involved.
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They can’t submit a NOA cuz they saw it on HBO. They NEED cooperation from the witnesses.
 
#24
#24
butchna said:
They can’t submit a NOA cuz they saw it on HBO. They NEED cooperation from the witnesses.
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They already have cooperation from Christian Dawkins. His cooperation did not need to be compelled. The NCAA's Committee on Infractions certainly can use the HBO documentary as evidence in making their case against Will Wade. It contains information relevant to their investigation and it reflects the public record, which can be used at their discretion. The NCAA has jurisdiction over these alleged violations, and they have every right to sanction LSU and Wade for those violations.
 
#25
#25
butchna said:
It’s just a bunch of noise and an article without his submitted statement. Can’t submit your HBO Max subscription as basis for NOA.
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No, it's Will Wade's own voice, clearly telling Christian Dawkins that he had made Javonte Smart "a strong a$$ offer". That is substantial. You also have context provided by Dawkins. Major college athletic programs have been sanctioned by the NCAA for less than this... and with less compelling evidence than this too.
 
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