Butch, Shoop and few tidbits ..

#226
#226
Quote:
Originally Posted by allvol123 View Post
No one above Jones was limiting this team against 2 perennial bottom feeders.

QuickSmurf said:
Looking backwards at 2 games to define the present or future isn't conductive to what's going on right now. What you guys keep saying over and over reminds me of the childhood phrase " I know you are but what am I" because obsessing over those 2 games does very little for your anit-Butch cause. Butch should be fired because we lost those 2 games is circular reasoning. Someone could say that he can coach because we beat Virginia Tech, Flordia and Georgia to refute your position very easily.
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The "circular reasoning" is that CBJ was hired based on having won 4 championships in 6 years -- while here in his 4th year with the most-talented-returning-team in the sece + expectations to win the East he was instead without a qb coach or S&C coach but with 15+/- key injuries when he suddenly just lost (for some reason) his OC of only 2 years AFTER-which that OC led UT to 2 of the most-productive offensive seasons in UT history, and he/CBJ lost to vandy + sce, all with a new $1+mil DC -- which all leads back to a perception that recruiting rank is falling backwards for 2017/tbd while starting a new qb.

I guess it's just all perception for the next few months, but I'm with hope for him.
 
#227
#227
volgr said:
While that is true regrading the administration, the reason they have put Butch in this scenario is because Butch's team didn't leave up to expectations this season. You can't extend him this year after failing to meet expectations, so in essence he is on a one year contract and possibly a lame duck.
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I wouldn't argue with your analysis at this very moment from a strategic standpoint on the administration's part. Should know soon (I hope????):angel:
 
#228
#228
Honky said:
And... The wheels of the bus go off off off...all through the school.

It sounds like 2017 season is a sinking ship and it's just a matter of time before the iceberg damage is evident.

100_anniversary_titanic_sinking_by_esai8mellows-d4xbme8.jpg
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Whether I agree with you or not, that's some pretty good dark humor there. I assume Butch is at the helm or is he playing one of the violins? Sorry guys. Not trying to offend anyone.
 
#230
#230
UT-Rex said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by allvol123 View Post
No one above Jones was limiting this team against 2 perennial bottom feeders.



The "circular reasoning" is that CBJ was hired based on having won 4 championships in 6 years -- while here in his 4th year with the most-talented-returning-team in the sece + expectations to win the East he was instead without a qb coach or S&C coach but with 15+/- key injuries when he suddenly just lost (for some reason) his OC of only 2 years AFTER-which that OC led UT to 2 of the most-productive offensive seasons in UT history, and he/CBJ lost to vandy + sce, all with a new $1+mil DC -- which all leads back to a perception that recruiting rank is falling backwards for 2017/tbd while starting a new qb.

I guess it's just all perception for the next few months, but I'm with hope for him.
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Rex, it was slightly hard to follow your message, but all in all, I think the analysis is pretty sound. Why Butch Jones was without a solid S&C coach and an assistant level QB coach is somewhat baffling. The other puzzler for me was why hire DeBord, coming out of retirement, when you knew he might be (to borrow a basketball term) a "one and done"? Losing to Vandy is inexcusable. I know it's been beat to death on this forum, but I can't think of a single argument that holds water. They are one of our main rivals that we are expected to beat each year. As a lot of people have said, despite the injuries, we still were more talented on both sides of the ball. I think one could argue the USCe loss was a game that simply got away from us. Still, if our coaches are monitoring the chemistry of the team, we should have still won that one too. That said, it's history now, and Butch will either put that away like Fulmer did the 1996 Memphis loss, or these two losses will be used as part of the justification to cut ties after next year (possibly).
 
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#232
#232
MiramarVol said:
To the Uneducated:

The staff will turnover if there will be any turnover AFTER NSD and the coaches meeting. Not until then. You don't see any movement any where in college football right now, unless there has been a previous firing and there is an immediate need for hire such as a HC position. With no new AD in place and the subsequent hiring of Blackburn, no one would come here not knowing the future of the HC and direction of the AD.
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If by "coaches meeting" you mean the annual AFCA coaching convention, that began yesterday and goes through Wednesday. I would expect (hope) some moves at UT will happen this week. You may be right that one or two may be held up until after NSD due to recruiting concerns. Doesn't sound right to do that but I understand why one would.
 
#233
#233
VolRoger said:
Whether I agree with you or not, that's some pretty good dark humor there. I assume Butch is at the helm or is he playing one of the violins? Sorry guys. Not trying to offend anyone.
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Seriously.. No AD, No Chancellor...No OC in their right mind, who is worth their salt would chose to come here...

Butch has no administrative support..he is literally on his own...

Everyone knows that 2016 was suppose to be our swan song year..the coming out party of UT...

Now that it's the off-season, we finally see the reality of our situation..
 
#235
#235
VolRoger said:
Rex, it was slightly hard to follow your message, but all in all, I think the analysis is pretty sound. Why Butch Jones was without a solid S&C coach and an assistant level QB coach is somewhat baffling. The other puzzler for me was why hire DeBord, coming out of retirement, when you knew he might be (to borrow a basketball term) a "one and done"? Losing to Vandy is inexcusable. I know it's been beat to death on this forum, but I can't think of a single argument that holds water. They are one of our main rivals that we are expected to beat each year. As a lot of people have said, despite the injuries, we still were more talented on both sides of the ball. I think one could argue the USCe loss was a game that simply got away from us. Still, if our coaches are monitoring the chemistry of the team, we should have still won that one too. That said, it's history now, and Butch will either put that away like Fulmer did the 1996 Memphis loss, or these two losses will be used as part of the justification to cut ties after next year (possibly).
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Just a thought but I hope you hear me out. As important as talent and coaching are and I agree that they are, so is experience. For example as talented as Warrior is, he made mistakes because of his lack of experience. You know all the guys we played on that side of the ball. Even a walk on. I see the problems mainly as a lack of experienced depth because when we were more healthy we shut down teams at times (V Tech,Florida and others). Do you get what I'm saying? I hate those 2 losses because I hate those school's. But there were times throughout the season where we played very good on defense.
 
#236
#236
ReaderVol said:
Because it involves Jones. And they HATE him. Makes no sense but they hate the man.
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This is ridiculous.
I like Jones and hope he succeeds. I desperately hope he proves all doubters, myself included, wrong. Not having confidence in Jones does not translate to hatred of the man.
 
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#238
#238
First and foremost, it's not the end of the world. It's not even the end of Tennessee football.

Yes, I can see how the transition at AD could dissuade some currently employed outside candidates from accepting the OC job at UT. That's the breaks. CBJ will do what he has to do to staff up for Team 121 and beyond (CBJ has four years on his current contract, and there's no indication that he's looking to do anything else but succeed at Tennessee).

When the new AD is on board and has had the chance to evaluate each and every program at UTK, s/he may make some changes (i.e. hire someone to replace an existing coach rather than to fill a vacancy). IMHO, football doesn't top the list of concerns for the new AD.

So, for those of you capable of taking the long view, continue to discuss what changes to CBJ's coaching staff may optimally wring the best from team 121 (and most likely, team 122). For those of you intent upon pulling your eye teeth because CBJ's first four Volunteer teams weren't toe-to-toe with Bama, well, seemingly nothing will dissuade you. Take heart in the advances made in dental implants.
 
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#239
#239
Doyle Hargraves said:
This is ridiculous.
I like Jones and hope he succeeds. I desperately hope he proves all doubters, myself included, wrong. Not having confidence in Jones does not translate to hatred of the man.
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It is ridiculous, that "some" hate him that bad.
 
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#240
#240
Behr said:
It is ridiculous, that "some" hate him that bad.
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I have seen one poster state that he/she didn't want Jones here even if he was successful. I called that blind hatred. I cannot for the life of me remember who it was that posted it, though.

Perhaps I have missed the others.
 
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#241
#241
QuickSmurf said:
Just a thought but I hope you hear me out. As important as talent and coaching are and I agree that they are, so is experience. For example as talented as Warrior is, he made mistakes because of his lack of experience. You know all the guys we played on that side of the ball. Even a walk on. I see the problems mainly as a lack of experienced depth because when we were more healthy we shut down teams at times (V Tech,Florida and others). Do you get what I'm saying? I hate those 2 losses because I hate those school's. But there were times throughout the season where we played very good on defense.
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No doubt that we had some good moments. Shutting down Florida in the 2nd half was fun to watch. I don't think the D was horrible against Georgia except for their hail Mary. The offense had some good moments as well. Losing to USCe didn't kill me. In fact, if we beat Vandy we finish the regular season on a 4 game win streak, 9-3, and a somewhat less disappointing trip to the Sugar Bowl, which we haven't been to in 26 years. That said, Butch must learn the expectations and culture of his team's fan base. You must admit .500 against Vandy won't cut it even for the most cordial fan. The fans won't except that nor should they. I only keep bringing the Dores up because the fans expect that game to be a win every year. One can argue whether that's realistic, but that's the perception. Moreover,most fans of this team expect to beat Bammer at least every other year. Why else are they so ardent in their defense of that scheduled game being protected? We probably aren't going to see those expectations met while Saban is there. Fans will be disappointed, even upset, but like the rest of the SEC currently, most get over it. Not with Vandy. In fact, if Jones is 7-5 next year and even one of those losses is to either Vandy, Kentucky, or USCe, then there should be a change at HC.
 
#242
#242
Doyle Hargraves said:
I have seen one poster state that he/she didn't want Jones here even if he was successful. I called that blind hatred. I cannot for the life of me remember who it was that posted it, though.

Perhaps I have missed the others.
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That is just emotional reaction. I highly doubt it would be as such if we were playing for a NC tonight.
 
#243
#243
VolRoger said:
No doubt that we had some good moments. Shutting down Florida in the 2nd half was fun to watch. I don't think the D was horrible against Georgia except for their hail Mary. The offense had some good moments as well. Losing to USCe didn't kill me. In fact, if we beat Vandy we finish the regular season on a 4 game win streak, 9-3, and a somewhat less disappointing trip to the Sugar Bowl, which we haven't been to in 26 years. That said, Butch must learn the expectations and culture of his team's fan base. You must admit .500 against Vandy won't cut it even for the most cordial fan. The fans won't except that nor should they. I only keep bringing the Dores up because the fans expect that game to be a win every year. One can argue whether that's realistic, but that's the perception. Moreover,most fans of this team expect to beat Bammer at least every other year. Why else are they so ardent in their defense of that scheduled game being protected? We probably aren't going to see those expectations met while Saban is there. Fans will be disappointed, even upset, but like the rest of the SEC currently, most get over it. Not with Vandy. In fact, if Jones is 7-5 next year and even one of those losses is to either Vandy, Kentucky, or USCe, then there should be a change at HC.
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It started with sleep walking coming off a bye.
That was bad.
Then Vandy happened. That's worse. Maybe fans expect to beat them yearly because we were spoiled by Fulmer against Vandy. Your right though .500 against them won't cut it and shouldn't be accepted.

If a loss to the above three happens then that means we've probably lost to Tech too.
 
#245
#245
Doyle Hargraves said:
I have seen one poster state that he/she didn't want Jones here even if he was successful. I called that blind hatred. I cannot for the life of me remember who it was that posted it, though.

Perhaps I have missed the others.
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The one you're talking about, I can quote if necessary, but we both know it's out there. After persistence and telling them I had no agenda and wasn't trying to get something to use against them, 3 posters said "if losing the final games after SC meant getting rid of Butch, yes, I hope to lose them.

The thoughts I have are, knowing there are four that feel that way and three of them I had to practically "drag it out of them", how many more feel that way but won't say it here? With some of the comments I read everyday in every thread, I'm convinced there is more than we both think there is and I believe there is a lot more than you do.

The other thought is, how many posters have said "I am fine with mediocrity "? Can you assume by some comments in all threads, that some feel that way but won't say it?

All I'm saying Slingblade is, if it's okay to call some "Butch worshippers, sheep, Nancies, pumpers " etc. Why is it such a big deal to call some "Butch haters, negavol "?

I think both are beyond stupid, but it is what it is. Everyday.
 
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#250
#250
EZE said:
Yeah, nobody would ever think to hire a coach who took over a dumpster fire of a program on and off the field, restored academics, and delivered back to back Top 25 rankings in Years 3 and 4. I just cannot imagine any AD being crazy enough to hire that coach.

Many of you are so deluded you are nuts.
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UGA fired Donnan after he went 9-3, 8-4, 8-4 overall in years 3,4, and 5....and finished 5-3 his last 2 yrs in the SEC.....

Hired Richt away from FSU--and that worked out pretty good....

I think 2017 will be put up or shut up for CBJ....must win the East.....especially with it being so weak.....
 
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