Brexit: Article 50 Invoked

#1
Burhead

Burhead

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#1
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWNH3_Wk5Jg[/youtube]

Surprised no one's mentioned this historical day. Today is a victory for the people of Britain and for countries who wish to keep their sovereignty and the idea that the nation-state still rules supreme. Two years from today Britain will stand as an independent country again. Though I do expect this is the end of the United Kingdom. I see Scotland going independent in hopes of rejoining the EU.
 
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#2
#2
Burhead said:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWNH3_Wk5Jg[/youtube]

Surprised no one's mentioned this historical day. Today is a victory for the people of Britain and for countries who wish to keep their sovereignty and the idea that the nation-state still rules supreme. Two years from today Britain will stand as an independent country again. Though I do expect this is the end of the United Kingdom. I see Scotland going independent in hopes of rejoining the EU.
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this is a big deal. I had been keeping track but had lost track.

I doubt the EU actually lets Scotland back in. they might get left in a bad spot and become the next Greece.
 
#3
#3
LouderVol said:
this is a big deal. I had been keeping track but had lost track.

I doubt the EU actually lets Scotland back in. they might get left in a bad spot and become the next Greece.
Click to expand...

True. It could also give new rise to the prospects of Irish reunification, though that would be a bloody fight for sure.
 
#4
#4
Burhead said:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWNH3_Wk5Jg[/youtube]

Surprised no one's mentioned this historical day. Today is a victory for the people of Britain and for countries who wish to keep their sovereignty and the idea that the nation-state still rules supreme. Two years from today Britain will stand as an independent country again. Though I do expect this is the end of the United Kingdom. I see Scotland going independent in hopes of rejoining the EU.
Click to expand...

It's funny, with the Scotland vote recently I saw lots of my FB friends who were anti-Brexit cheering Scotland's move to be free of a larger governing body and seeking independence to form it's own alliances.

Everyone seems so controlled by political ideology rather than principle. I supported the notion of Brexit and I support the notion of Scottish independence if both of those are what the citizens choose. Likewise, if Puerto Rico wants it's independence I'm all for it.
 
#5
#5
volinbham said:
It's funny, with the Scotland vote recently I saw lots of my FB friends who were anti-Brexit cheering Scotland's move to be free of a larger governing body and seeking independence to form it's own alliances.

Everyone seems so controlled by political ideology rather than principle. I supported the notion of Brexit and I support the notion of Scottish independence if both of those are what the citizens choose. Likewise, if Puerto Rico wants it's independence I'm all for it.
Click to expand...

I don't care one way or the other but I'm not sure they are seeing the long-term impact of Scottish independence. If they fail to join the EU (which I don't see the Union taking on another small, dependent economy) they are going to be screwed economically.
 
#6
#6
volinbham said:
It's funny, with the Scotland vote recently I saw lots of my FB friends who were anti-Brexit cheering Scotland's move to be free of a larger governing body and seeking independence to form it's own alliances.

Everyone seems so controlled by political ideology rather than principle. I supported the notion of Brexit and I support the notion of Scottish independence if both of those are what the citizens choose. Likewise, if Puerto Rico wants it's independence I'm all for it.
Click to expand...

The other side of the conversation is that by leaving you are making the whole lesser, so the whole gets some input.

and at what level does independence stop being an option? Ok for a state to leave a nation, a city to leave a state, a neighborhood to leave the city, a house to leave a neighborhood? at some point that independence becomes non-enforceable and not sustaining.
 
#7
#7
LouderVol said:
The other side of the conversation is that by leaving you are making the whole lesser, so the whole gets some input.

and at what level does independence stop being an option? Ok for a state to leave a nation, a city to leave a state, a neighborhood to leave the city, a house to leave a neighborhood? at some point that independence becomes non-enforceable and not sustaining.
Click to expand...

Clearly the UK was an independent country that joined a confederation of independent countries so them leaving is not quite the same as a state leaving the union.

I'm not an expert on the dividing lines of governance between the countries that make up the UK but I'd imagine there too it is not the same as a state leaving the union. Given they can vote on it and make it occur tells me it's different than a state (or city) voting to leave the union (prohibited by law). I assume Scotland is exercising the rights they have by law.

In both the case of Brexit and Scotland there appear to be provisions and rules for deciding to leave and provided those are followed the whole has no additional say unless it is written into the agreement.

Puerto Rico is a territory and was never really part of the "whole" of the US - it is a holdover of colonialism.

So in order of does the whole have a say I'd suggest in Brexit the whole (EU) has the least say. For Scotland it depends on the governing structures between countries that make up the UK. For PR, the whole does have a say I guess since we technically own them but I would support their independence if they sought it.
 
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#8
#8
Burhead said:
I don't care one way or the other but I'm not sure they are seeing the long-term impact of Scottish independence. If they fail to join the EU (which I don't see the Union taking on another small, dependent economy) they are going to be screwed economically.
Click to expand...

I hear you - my view is it's their call and they'll own the consequences. My earlier point was that people who were anti-Brexit thinking the EU must be preserved were now suddenly pro Scottish independence because it was an FU to Britain.
 
#12
#12
The UK government is in total disarray. May's cabinet ministers resigning, including Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson.

May has turned her back on the people who voted for Brexit. She wants to Remain in the EU.

Theresa May is facing fresh turmoil today after two of her party vice chairs quit in protest at her Brexit plans - warning they will lead to 'Prime Minister Corbyn'.

Brexiteers Ben Bradley and Maria Caulfield handed in their resignations just a day after Boris Johnson's dramatic departure.

Their coordinated departures are designed to inflict maximum damage on the PM who is battling for her political survival.

Two Tory party vice chairs quit in protest at May’s Brexit plans | Daily Mail Online
 
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#14
#14
Franklin Pierce said:
The UK government is in total disarray. May's cabinet ministers resigning, including Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson.

May has turned her back on the people who voted for Brexit. She wants to Remain in the EU.

Theresa May is facing fresh turmoil today after two of her party vice chairs quit in protest at her Brexit plans - warning they will lead to 'Prime Minister Corbyn'.

Brexiteers Ben Bradley and Maria Caulfield handed in their resignations just a day after Boris Johnson's dramatic departure.

Their coordinated departures are designed to inflict maximum damage on the PM who is battling for her political survival.

Two Tory party vice chairs quit in protest at May’s Brexit plans | Daily Mail Online
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Who knows, but when the next G-7 (more or less) convenes, Trump may be among the most senior. One big scandal with European illegal immigration and socialized medicine, and the whole European socialist fantasy land might itself crumble. Probably unlikely - Germany did manage to absorb the wreckage previously known as East Germany.
 
#17
#17
LouderVol said:
yeah the issue for this is where does it end. after the second vote, one side still doesn't like how it went so do they hold a third?
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Wars have been fought over less. It’s not something we have an easy time imagining in the modern era, but political instability and a lack of trust in the validity of a vote can cause one.
 
#18
#18
Burhead said:
[youtube]

Surprised no one's mentioned this historical day. Today is a victory for the people of Britain and for countries who wish to keep their sovereignty and the idea that the nation-state still rules supreme. Two years from today Britain will stand as an independent country again. Though I do expect this is the end of the United Kingdom. I see Scotland going independent in hopes of rejoining the EU.
Click to expand...


I want to go back to when City States ruled supreme.
 
#19
#19
Britain's first sanctions target Russians, Saudis

Britain’s first sanctions will target 25 Russian nationals it says were involved in the mistreatement and death of lawyer Sergei Magnitsky and 20 Saudi nationals held to be involved in the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, the foreign ministry said on Monday.
 
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