Bob Shoop learned how to coach again

#26
#26
Yet, the best defensive coordinator in the land is getting similar results from the Vols D this year that Shoop got when he was here. Might not be Butch holding Shoop back. Might be we have soft players who were way overrated.
 
#27
#27
give_him 6 said:
Yet, the best defensive coordinator in the land is getting similar results from the Vols D this year that Shoop got when he was here. Might not be Butch holding Shoop back. Might be we have soft players who were way overrated.
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A lot of them are soft and overrated because of the previous coaching staff, IMO.
 
#30
#30
BigOrangeTrain said:
I wouldnt say that Butch was a poor recruiter. He was just average. He didnt recruit many SEC level guys. His mindset was stuck in the AAC.
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He recruited all kinds of SEC-level guys, at least according to the recruiting services. That means he just got unlucky and happened to recruit all the busts (highly unlikely) or didn't do a good job developing them (likely). There were also a lot of guys, particularly from that 2015 class, that ended up leaving the program for one reason or another.
 
#31
#31
Based on Hail State's performance this year, Bob Shoop must have some coaching ability. My question is what did Lyle make Shoop do differently or what did he do in general to make it appear that competent coaches were incompetent?
 
#32
#32
lonelawyer said:
Based on Hail State's performance this year, Bob Shoop must have some coaching ability. My question is what did Lyle make Shoop do differently or what did he do in general to make it appear that competent coaches were incompetent?
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That's a complicated question. Butch clearly limited the potential of the entire team, but I think he had his most negative impact on the offense because he's an offensive guy.

When Butch hired Shoop, there were reports that Shoop wanted to bring some of his assistants with him but they did not come. Whether or not that was because he couldn't convince them to come or Butch didn't allow it is unclear. At Miss St, I wonder how many assistants Shoop was able to hand pick.

Shoop's biggest issue at Tennessee was the amount of injuries he had to deal with. I've been watching football closely for basically my entire life and don't recall a single team, college or pro, that had the volume of injuries Tennessee did in 2016 and 2017. Because of the injuries, the existing personnel he had, and not having "his guys" coaching the defense, I don't think Shoop was ever able to truly run what he considered his defense. If memory serves he ran a 4-2-5 a lot of the time, which isn't necessarily the best formation for stopping the run. That's what a lot of those soft Big 12 defenses run to stop the pass. The 4-2-5 also allowed him to have Gaulden on the field as the nickel most of the time, who was a great player for us but also kind of a tweener (not quick/fast enough to be a corner, not big enough to be a safety).
 
#33
#33
Shoop never forgot how to coach. I have been saying that the last 2 years. The guy was successful at Vandy and Penn St. He didn’t just wake up one morning with amnesia.

In college football it is more about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s then the X’s and O’s. He didn’t have the players and the team was soft. This was the result of Butch roster mismanagement, getting out recruited, and poor player evaluations. Also does anyone else find it odd how many fewer injuries we have had this year then the last 2 years. That is the result of the head coach not knowing what he was doing or how to run a program. Offseason strength and conditioning amongst other things. Taking players who were already injury prone in high school.
 
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#34
#34
UpstateVol613 said:
Shoop never forgot how to coach. I have been saying that the last 2 years. The guy was successful at Vandy and Penn St. He didn’t just wake up one morning with amnesia.

In college football it is more about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s then the X’s and O’s. He didn’t have the players and the team was soft. This was the result of Butch roster mismanagement, getting out recruited, and poor player evaluations. Also does anyone else find it odd how many fewer injuries we have had this year then the last 2 years. That is the result of the head coach not knowing what he was doing or how to run a program. Offseason strength and conditioning amongst other things. Taking players who were already injury prone in high school.
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We still have those injury prone players on the roster. And this year hasn't been a clean year. Fewer sure, but that could just be the bell curve as much as coaching
 
#35
#35
LouderVol said:
We still have those injury prone players on the roster. And this year hasn't been a clean year. Fewer sure, but that could just be the bell curve as much as coaching
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It normally takes a couple of years to get a new strength and conditioning program implemented. Think about it, we are on our 3rd S&C coach since 2015.
 
#36
#36
05_never_again said:
Shoop's biggest issue at Tennessee was the amount of injuries he had to deal with. I've been watching football closely for basically my entire life and don't recall a single team, college or pro, that had the volume of injuries Tennessee did in 2016 and 2017. Because of the injuries, the existing personnel he had, and not having "his guys" coaching the defense, I don't think Shoop was ever able to truly run what he considered his defense
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Exactly. He was filling in pieces everywhere. Those dbs getting moved to nickel. Then safeties to db then ends moved to tackles. Outside lbs to mike. All those injuries gave our defense no continuity or depth. That being said i blame Butch. All the strength coach swapping was a stupid decision. Using Saban as an example as we do for almost everything since he is the bar. For all the assistants he allows to come and go. His strength coach he wont let go anywhere. Some of those players have great physiques when they get there but when you look at his tenure there. The legs size of those guys on defense are huge compared to opponents. That protects their bodies in a physical league like the SEC. Butch firing strength coaches left and right made us start from almost ground zero everytime as strength coaches all have different philosophies.
 
#37
#37
DeepSpringsVol said:
Exactly. He was filling in pieces everywhere. Those dbs getting moved to nickel. Then safeties to db then ends moved to tackles. Outside lbs to mike. All those injuries gave our defense no continuity or depth. That being said i blame Butch. All the strength coach swapping was a stupid decision. Using Saban as an example as we do for almost everything since he is the bar. For all the assistants he allows to come and go. His strength coach he wont let go anywhere. Some of those players have great physiques when they get there but when you look at his tenure there. The legs size of those guys on defense are huge compared to opponents. That protects their bodies in a physical league like the SEC. Butch firing strength coaches left and right made us start from almost ground zero everytime as strength coaches all have different philosophies.
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Not only did he let a S&C coach go the April before the 2016 season started, he didn't permanently fill the position until he hired Rock Gullickson in early 2017. The team went an entire summer and fall camp without a bonafide S&C coach. That's huge because in the summer the S&C coach is the guy who is with the team all the time.
 
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#38
#38
Shoop was limited by Lyle on schemes and game planning. Shoop was very vocal internally. He and Lyle also didn’t get along.

Several member of the defensive staff saw the “Cluster F” that was coming before last season and were vocal as well.

Lyle WAS and IS the problem, every place he goes.
 
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