Bill Nye versus Ken Ham

#1

Septic

ヽ༼ ಠ益ಠ ༽ノ ( ఠ ͟ʖ ఠ)
Lab Rat
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
32,739
Likes
39,384
#1
#3
#3
Oh look

Another religion debate.

Smh

tumblr_md6pv4bkqk1rhnyg2o1_500.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#6
#6
Anyone catch this "debate" last night? It was a goodun' - good in that it was 2+ hours of actual wtf's. Watching Ken Ham of the creation *cough* museum, put forth his young earth creationism argument against Bill Nye "The Science Guy" was like watching a toddler in a street fight with Mike Tyson.

In case you missed it: Full Debate

Pat Robertson implores creationist Ken Ham to shut up: ‘Let’s not make a joke of ourselves’




Hope you showered and cleaned off your monitor after all that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#8
#8
It was a debate? It was pretty lopsided. It was an advertising campaign for the creation museum and and educational event in Nye's eyes.
 
#9
#9
He said something about disease being punishment for sin and Nye asked him if fish sin because fish get diseases, LOL.

Some may be in it to bash religion. I am in it to bash bad ideas. You can have faith that is reasoned. I know Christians who are very reasoned. Some, not all, Christians say that Dinosaurs were killed in the flood. When I say that's stupid, I am not bashing Christianity, I am saying that individual's interpretation of the Bible makes no sense.
 
#10
#10
He said something about disease being punishment for sin and Nye asked him if fish sin because fish get diseases, LOL.

Some may be in it to bash religion. I am in it to bash bad ideas. You can have faith that is reasoned. I know Christians who are very reasoned. Some, not all, Christians say that Dinosaurs were killed in the flood. When I say that's stupid, I am not bashing Christianity, I am saying that individual's interpretation of the Bible makes no sense.

The inability or unwillingness to grasp the concepts of allegory and parable is mindblowing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#11
#11
He said something about disease being punishment for sin and Nye asked him if fish sin because fish get diseases, LOL.

Some may be in it to bash religion. I am in it to bash bad ideas. You can have faith that is reasoned. I know Christians who are very reasoned. Some, not all, Christians say that Dinosaurs were killed in the flood. When I say that's stupid, I am not bashing Christianity, I am saying that individual's interpretation of the Bible makes no sense.

Hell, even the Vatican accepts evolution and the big bang.
 
#14
#14
I think science and religion can mix to an extent. But the one question that continues to elude scientists is the creation of life. The answer of "why" is never really gotten around to. Meaning of life stuff if you will. How did those atomic particles bond together and eventually become alive? What caused the great jump from elemental objects to a living organism? What gave them the desire to multiply? Why the evolution? Many single celled organisms are quite content to continue being single celled organisms, bacteria for example. They adapt to changing environments such as resistance to medicines, evolve if you will, but do not grow past the cellular level.

So why the jump to eventual mankind as the theory of evolution states? What created the conscience? Why did it feel the desire to grow past the level it happened to be at? And when did bacteria have feelings? Desires? The intelligence to evolve past the stage of being a cellular organism to grow larger and more complex? Why was it necessary to start using DNA as compared to the RNA?

And more to the point, are we the pinnacle of evolution? Is there a next great evolutionary step for mankind? What is the next evolutionary cycle for life?

Answers that science cannot really provide very well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#15
#15
I think saying this debate was "lopsided" or "Mike Tyson vs a toddler" is all about perspective. If you are on the evolutionist side you probably feel Bill Nye was the victor, if you are a Creationist you probably feel Ham had the more valid points.

What I saw is exactly what happens in all these debates; both sides presented arguments the other side can't answer.

The problem is you would have to have 2 people who literally know EVERYTHING for there to be a debate on this subject that will swing anyone's opinion. At any given time, one side can go "Ok well how do you explain this?" and the other side goes "I can't, but how can you explain this?" and the other side goes "I can't, but how can you explain this?" Is a vicious cycle.

I am a bit of a Christian apologist. I'm no pro, but I can hold my own. I am far from any form of a scientist, but it's not hard for me to stump your typical scientist/evolutionist. On the flip side, at any given time a scientist can pull some random fact out of left field that I'm not aware of, or a topic in which I have zero clue what he/she is talking about, and we end up in a dumb-off.

Anyways there's my rant but the bottom line is I didn't see any one side dominating the other personally, but I definitely didn't see either party looking like "Mike Tyson vs. a toddler".
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
#16
#16
I think science and religion can mix to an extent. But the one question that continues to elude scientists is the creation of life. The answer of "why" is never really gotten around to. Meaning of life stuff if you will. How did those atomic particles bond together and eventually become alive? What caused the great jump from elemental objects to a living organism? What gave them the desire to multiply? Why the evolution? Many single celled organisms are quite content to continue being single celled organisms, bacteria for example. They adapt to changing environments such as resistance to medicines, evolve if you will, but do not grow past the cellular level.

So why the jump to eventual mankind as the theory of evolution states? What created the conscience? Why did it feel the desire to grow past the level it happened to be at? And when did bacteria have feelings? Desires? The intelligence to evolve past the stage of being a cellular organism to grow larger and more complex? Why was it necessary to start using DNA as compared to the RNA?

And more to the point, are we the pinnacle of evolution? Is there a next great evolutionary step for mankind? What is the next evolutionary cycle for life?

Answers that science cannot really provide very well.

Very lucid post. I am a Christian and a scientist and I believe they mix very well together. In my opinion the more science progresses, the more I see God's hand at work. I highly doubt science will ever be able to properly answer the questions you have asked. Everyone will have to use a little faith to understand these things.

As far as this debate all I have to say is anyone who still believes in the young earth theory is a little :crazy::crazy:.
 
#17
#17
The problem arises when scientists say "there is no God and you are foolish for believing in such a thing." And the creationists say "you're a fool for not!"

And the battle ensues.

So to get into the debate, the first thing that has to happen is God, in whatever form one chooses to believe, has to be defined. So what is God?

Is God merely a higher form of intelligence that has a way better grasp on the technology of life than we do? Does God have the power to give life as I mentioned in the previous post? So in order to have the debate, one has to set parameters on the idea of God. Scientists will say "there is no God!" However, will also admit that humans are continually evolving. And if we are evolving, what are we evolving to? Does ego not permit them to believe there could be a higher form of existence out there somewhere? That perhaps in the (supposedly) 13.8 billion years the universe has been around life had already reached levels we hadn't seen before and surpassed us? So will scientists that believe only in things they can prove deny the possibility that life could have evolved somewhere else and created life here? Because it defeats the whole purpose of science to dismiss a theory out of hand especially when they cannot explain the how and why of life as it is.

So this gets a little crazy when the idea of a creator of life (God) just so happens to coincide with the views of evolution since, again, people are evolving and eventually we should take that next step to a higher form of life. So if creationists believe God is a higher form of existence and evolutionists believe we will eventually evolve to a higher form of existence...

Is God that higher form of existence? Does the Bible not speak of God creating man in his own image? Does God not have a pretty firm grasp on the ability to create life according to religious views? Especially since we are unable to do so? So are the theories of evolution and creation so different really? Life was created from no life in the basic building blocks of matter. And then given the will to live. Scientists cannot explain how it happened, just that they believe it did. Evolution says the basic building blocks of life came together and eventually multiplied and continued to evolve. Creationists also say life was breathed into the basic building blocks. Of course, creationists also believe humans were fully developed so there is that factor. But creationists are also getting into the understanding that the Bible has a lot of metaphors and some things are not to be taken literally such as Noah carrying all the species of the world on the Ark.

Did a higher form of life, God if you will, create life as we know it and even influence our early history? Is there more in common between evolutionists and creationists than they care to admit? As stated, most people don't accept the 6000 year old Earth theory anymore. Science has proved that pretty well to be false. But scientists cannot tell you exactly how life started or rather what gave the basic elements of life the initial will to live. The "why" of it all. Creationists give the account of God, a higher form of being than humans, giving life on this planet.

So is there a middle ground to be achieved from science and religion?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#18
#18
Very lucid post. I am a Christian and a scientist and I believe they mix very well together. In my opinion the more science progresses, the more I see God's hand at work. I highly doubt science will ever be able to properly answer the questions you have asked. Everyone will have to use a little faith to understand these things.

As far as this debate all I have to say is anyone who still believes in the young earth theory is a little :crazy::crazy:.

Everything you just said explains my take on it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#19
#19
I am a Christian and a scientist and I believe they mix very well together.

As far as this debate all I have to say is anyone who still believes in the young earth theory is a little :crazy::crazy:.

What kind of scientist are you?
 
#20
#20
The problem arises when scientists say "there is no God and you are foolish for believing in such a thing." And the creationists say "you're a fool for not!"

Scientist's don't say that, people say that - some of whom happen to be scientists.

In this debate - religion was only used by one side. Bill Nye spoke about science and the scientific process while Ken Ham literally backed up his answers, not with evidence but with the "because the bible says so" argument. Which is no argument at all.

Looks like the criticisms of Nye were spot on. This clown used Nye's celebrity and the publicity of this 'debate' as a platform to promote his creation facility.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#23
#23
Wow. Magic camel bones that make suggestions. Can they pick Lotto numbers as well?

Some claimed the Bible was false because there was no evidence of the Hittites. Then they discovered ruins and now the existence of the Hittite nation is a historical fact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#25
#25
Looks like the criticisms of Nye were spot on. This clown used Nye's celebrity and the publicity of this 'debate' as a platform to promote his creation facility.

Looks like he made a pretty good business decision if it increases his bottom line.
 
Advertisement

Back
Top