Bigger underachievement: Tennessee or...

#1
goldvol

goldvol

VolNation's Lesser Poobah
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#1
USC. Most preseason opinions were around 8-4 for Tennessee. USC was expected to compete for a national title. Who has underachieved more, Dooley or Kiffin? I'm asking this because there are many vols fans who wish Kiffin would have stayed. USC is obviously loaded with talent, but were also short on the number of scholarships. IMO USC is the bigger disappointment for the season. Obviously, if Tennessee loses to Kentucky or Vandy, they could end up being a bigger disappointment. What do you think?
 
#3
#3
Interesting to note: Kiff lost two games this year against teams that he had vastly superior talent to. The four year trailing average of recruiting for USC is 4th, they lost to Arizona that averages 46th and a Stanford team that averages 18th. To put that in perspective, UT averages 13th and lost to UF (7th), UGA (9th), Bama (2nd), SCAR (18th) and MSU (34th). So when Dooley gets fired, like many suspect he will, he ultimately lost 2 games against teams he should have beaten based on talent, Kiff did the same thing.
 
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#4
#4
if we win out to finish 8-5 i think usc is going to end at 10-3 or 9-4 with a loss to oregon...id say them...were slightly improved, and they havent fulfilled expectations or even close. and they have a cupcake schedule except for oregon
 
#5
#5
I think its USC.. realistic vol fans knew wed be around 7, 8 wins this year ( which is what we are on pace for) but USC was supposed to win a Naty Title and have a Heisman winner.. they could realisticly end up with 4 losses. (Already have 2, then oregon twice)
 
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#6
#6
daj2576 said:
Interesting to note: Kiff lost two games this year against teams that he had vastly superior talent to. The four year trailing average of recruiting for USC is 4th, they lost to Arizona that averages 46th and a Stanford team that averages 18th. To put that in perspective, UT averages 13th and lost to UF (7th), UGA (9th), Bama (2nd), SCAR (18th) and MSU (34th). So when Dooley gets fired, like many suspect he will, he ultimately lost 2 games against teams he should have beaten based on talent, Kiff did the same thing.
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Dooley's loss to UK is far worse than any bad loss Kiffin has. BTW, Dooley probably isn't done losing games this season, but he is done playing teams who recruit better than UT.
 
#8
#8
daj2576 said:
Last years Kentucky loss doesn't count this year, you recognize that, right?
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True, but it's as much a part of the story of why he will be fired as any of his other bad losses. If the powers that be had known what they were doing, they would have put Dooley out of his misery in Lexington last year and not put the fans through this abomination of a season.
 
#9
#9
bleedorange0037 said:
True, but it's as much a part of the story of why he will be fired as any of his other bad losses. If the powers that be had known what they were doing, they would have put Dooley out of his misery in Lexington last year and not put the fans through this abomination of a season.
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You recognize that this thread is not about Dooley being retained or not, right?
 
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#10
#10
CTVolsfan14 said:
I think its USC.. realistic vol fans knew wed be around 7, 8 wins this year ( which is what we are on pace for) but USC was supposed to win a Naty Title and have a Heisman winner.. they could realisticly end up with 4 losses. (Already have 2, then oregon twice)
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The most over used phrase on the internet.

Im confused, one poster thinks we would be NC contenders if we had a different DC, and then this "realistic fan" tells me we should have only expected to win 7-8 wins.

Here are the facts as I see them..

We will probably still win 7-8 games. There is no way anyone could have predicted our defense would be this bad. Knowing what we know now and after watching the games weve played, it seems to me that anyone who predicted 9 wins should have been right on the money. We could have easily won at least one of the games between USC, UGA, and UF, take your pick. And we all know we had the talent to beat MSU.

So this "realistic Vol fan" has come to the realization that this staff simply isnt getting it done.
 
#11
#11
NeylandArmy said:
You recognize that this thread is not about Dooley being retained or not, right?
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I do. I was simply responding to the guy who said that Dooley was going to be fired for losing the same number of games to lesser competition as Kiffin has, which is simply not true.
 
#12
#12
SoCal has under achieved much more than our beloved Vols. we have lost some heartbreakers than on paper most thought we had a chance at. Our defense has been porous or we could have reclaimed our rightful place in the national spotlight

Trojans have not lived up to their hype at all. Lucky not to have a couple other upset losses already this year. Lane might find a way to beat Oregon or Notre Dame and keep the shine on his star. But I can see them dropping another game to a PAC powderpuff team just as easily
 
#14
#14
USC was over hyped period. They weren't top 5 much less number 1 preseason. If that same team (personnel) was at UCLA instead of USC they'd been ranked maybe 10 to start at best.
 
#15
#15
The only team I care about is Tennessee, so our performance is a bigger disappointment to me.

That being said, it doesn't take a great coach to win at places like Soutern Cal, Texas, or one of the big Florida schools. you can't take a step without tripping over a 5-star recruit.

I just don't think that USC is a tough job ... at least not as tough as other big schools, especially in the South. California sports fans just don't eat, breathe, and sleep college football. Kiffin took his "dream job" when he scampered out of here, but it was also a much easier path. West Coast competition is good, but it's not SEC caliber every week. all Kiffin has to be is adequate and he'll win 8 or 9 games a year at USC. He'd actually have to be great to win here in this league. Average won't get you anything in the SEC.
 
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#18
#18
USC. not even close. boatload of top talent, easier competition than SEC, picked to win the NC by many, and won't even win their conference.

USC at 10-2 would be about comparable to us at 2-10.
 
#19
#19
USC no doubt. The similarities between these 2 coaches are huge. Both are the sons of legendary coaches. Both were mentored by top college coaches. Both had very limited expierence as head coaches. Both are good recruiters. And both have proven not to be very good head coaches. The only difference is one at least has a degree of integrity
 
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#21
#21
Kiffin knew he could not succeed in the Sec. He choose the easy route. We would have been in serious NCAA trouble had he stayed. Smoke and mirrors... If he cannot compete in the PAC he wouldn't be able to here. He knew it he bolted. Smoke and mirrors all talk no walk
 
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#22
#22
KingtUT said:
The most over used phrase on the internet.

Im confused, one poster thinks we would be NC contenders if we had a different DC, and then this "realistic fan" tells me we should have only expected to win 7-8 wins.

Here are the facts as I see them..

We will probably still win 7-8 games. There is no way anyone could have predicted our defense would be this bad. Knowing what we know now and after watching the games weve played, it seems to me that anyone who predicted 9 wins should have been right on the money. We could have easily won at least one of the games between USC, UGA, and UF, take your pick. And we all know we had the talent to beat MSU.

So this "realistic Vol fan" has come to the realization that this staff simply isnt getting it done.
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Good post.

It's hard to say what "realistic" for UT was based on this forum because the target keeps getting moved.

The overwhelming vibe before the season, and especially after the NCSU game was that UT was a 10 win team that was going to possibly win the East, Bray was a darkhorse Heisman contender, and that Sunseri was a massive upgrade over Wilcox (well maybe not so much after the NCSU game on that one, but definitely before the season started).

Now the vibe from the ever growing smaller group that defends Dooley is that anyone that saw us as anything better than an 8 win team this year was stupid. I'm sure there were some that have stuck with 8 wins as the ceiling, but the majority said this was the year results would be seen, and by results it was meant wins.
 
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#23
#23
tm3 said:
USC. not even close. boatload of top talent, easier competition than SEC, picked to win the NC by many, and won't even win their conference.

USC at 10-2 would be about comparable to us at 2-10.
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That's overstating it a bit.
 
#25
#25
Easily USC considering how much they were hyped. They were expected to be a national championship team, while UT (outside of volnation) was not expected to do much.
 
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