Are the Unions Killing the American Car Industry?

[coffeevol]

With all of this talk of a Bailout of the big three American made automobiles the question I ask you is.... Is it the unions fault. Intially the unions were really good groups that really protected the workers but now it seems the have these businesses in a stranglehold and demand compensation that just does not make sense for the company. I know the imports are down too but the difference is that they can hang on better and one of the main reason is cheaper labor. In my area there are 2 nissan plants within about 40 miles and I must ell you that the workers work very hard but they are paid well. I just think that the abuse of union power is killing the American brand. Thoughts?

 

[TennTradition]

Yes....to a large extent, the packages have gotten so outrageous that the companies can't make a quality product and keep up....

 

[joevol320]

i had read that many workers can get up to 4 years with 95% pay after they've been laid off. how crazy is that. the unions are 75-80% of the problem.

 

[DC Vol]

Yep. It will have gotten to the point that no matter how much they sold, none of them could have turned a profit.

 

[DC Vol]

i had read that many workers can get up to 4 years with 95% pay after they've been laid off. how crazy is that. the unions are 75-80% of the problem.

Yep. The Big 3 has to pay an average $25/hour more for the same assembly that their competitors do... on American soil.

That's not even counting how much they're losing a year in pensions and health coverage.

 

[KB5252]

From what I have heard the average employee makes about $75.00 per hour when you include benefits. That is outrageous.

 

[DC Vol]

From what I have heard the average employee makes about $75.00 per hour when you include benefits. That is outrageous.

Absolutely. I think the quote for the average American worker at a Toyota/Honda/etc plant was in the $40s/hour.

They're only hastening their demise. Soon this will be all automated.

 

[UT IE 95]

Yes. The media is all over the big 3 presidents showing up in Washington using private jets. They actually have companies that manufacture and sell.

Where the real problem lies is when Edwin Hill, James Hoffa, and Ron Gettlefinger show up using their private jets funded through paycheck docking of American workers.

 

[rjd970]

It's a two-way street, but the unions shoulder the majority of the blame. Toyota, Nissan, and Honda all do just fine without the unions and their employees are well compensated and taken care of. I read somewhere that Toyota hasn't laid off an employee in 20 years. It just doesn't seem like unions are needed much anymore and has turned into a racket of sorts.

 

[coffeevol]

Yep that is crazy when you really think about what they are doing, the work is not easy I know, but is does not require to much thought. I just think before the Govt spend the money on a bail out they should request that the union to become a thing of the past and with out union dues the workers would get to keep at least a lil bit more each month. It is rare that i ever hear of a Nissan employee being mistreated and after all isn't that what the union is supposed to protect them from.

 

[DC Vol]

Yep that is crazy when you really think about what they are doing, the work is not easy I know, but is does not require to much thought. I just think before the Govt spend the money on a bail out they should request that the union to become a thing of the past and with out union dues the workers would get to keep at least a lil bit more each month. It is rare that i ever hear of a Nissan employee being mistreated and after all isn't that what the union is supposed to protect them from.

That was actually close to what Mitt Romney suggested. He said "no bailout". Instead let them go bankrupt then restructure without Unionized interference.


The entire US Auto industry needs to start from a clean slate.

 

[coffeevol]

I would buy into that, the entire purpose of the union was to protect the workers from being abused, over worked or fired without cause but that has changed to gouging the company to the point of the company almost being a welfare state, workers want health coverage for life, retirement, high pay, job security, seniority based benifits but they have to give nothing in return how is the company supposed to make a profit this way? I say do away with the union before you send any of my tax dollars their way.

 

[**ORANGEBLOOD**]

Yes. Without a doubt.

 

[DC Vol]

I would buy into that, the entire purpose of the union was to protect the workers from being abused, over worked or fired without cause but that has changed to gouging the company to the point of the company almost being a welfare state, workers want health coverage for life, retirement, high pay, job security, seniority based benifits but they have to give nothing in return how is the company supposed to make a profit this way? I say do away with the union before you send any of my tax dollars their way.

It's archaic. A good Youtube video will go much further than a labor union will... and it's free.

 

[jdsa]

The union contracts are ridiculous, but management has to shoulder its share of the blame as well for not developing better products.

 

[TennTradition]

The union contracts are ridiculous, but management has to shoulder its share of the blame as well for not developing better products.

I agree with that to an extent, but it makes you wonder how much the engineers' hands are tied by trying to skimp by on their products so that they can sell them for a competitive price, all in the attempt to make up for the very high cost of labor.

 

[joevol320]

From what I have heard the average employee makes about $75.00 per hour when you include benefits. That is outrageous.

i don't care if someone makes 75.00 if the company is doing well and that amount is warranted. but if it's killing the company, then they need to make some serious changes.

 

[UT IE 95]

I agree with that to an extent, but it makes you wonder how much the engineers' hands are tied by trying to skimp by on their products so that they can sell them for a competitive price, all in the attempt to make up for the very high cost of labor.

Being an engineer in a union shop is the worst job in the world. It's impossible for them to recruit the best talent because they can't pay enough to compensate for a miserable work environment.

 

[dan4vols]

In all these hearings about automotive companies coming forward with their hat in their hands asking for a taxpayer bailout, what I wanna hear is someone stand up and state ''You know, when I'm looking at a sticker price of a low end SUV thats 20k and it comes off the assmbly line costing less than half that, in addition to you gentlemen making some really bad business decisions over the past 25 years...other than telling me if you go we all go like some parasite you don't dare kill because it's so intergrated within the host, why should taxpayers come to your rescue morally? You offer a plan, I counter offer one....all salaried memebers in every auto company work for a 1$ a year salary and get a second job till the issue is resolved.

 

[rjd970]

Being an engineer in a union shop is the worst job in the world. It's impossible for them to recruit the best talent because they can't pay enough to compensate for a miserable work environment.

I agree 100%. One of my degrees is in Industrial Engineering. The only way I would work in industrial auto manufacturing is if it is with Toyota, Honda, or Nissan...or one of their suppliers in a right-to-work state. No way would I ever work for one of the big 3. Everybody I graduated with felt the same way and it is one of the reasons they can't bring in some of the elite engineering talent.

 

[MG1968]

Has it ever been brought up why Ford and GM's business operations around the world are actually profitable? The main reason is that they don't have the union contracts, and there are some really nice cars being sold overseas that can't come to the American market because of regulations put in place by asshats like Barney Frank.

take a look at the Ford Falcon being marketed in Australia or the FPV MkII GT-P,

The Australian Ford FPV MkII GT-P - Autoblog

 

[coffeevol]

The only ones getting use out of the union are the head of the union raking in their fat cat checks. Not to mention corruption within these unions

 

[BigPapaVol]

I agree with that to an extent, but it makes you wonder how much the engineers' hands are tied by trying to skimp by on their products so that they can sell them for a competitive price, all in the attempt to make up for the very high cost of labor.

exactly. What good does it do to develop unprofitable good products?

 

[MG1968]

exactly. What good does it do to develop unprofitable good products.

Reid, Pelosi and their ilk would tell you that the profit motive is evil and that any business should be in business simply for the philanthropic pursuit of benefiting the collective.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Reid, Pelosi and their ilk would tell you that the profit motive is evil and that any business should be in business simply for the philanthropic pursuit of benefiting the collective.

unfortunately, she is very likely to retain power for quite some time, as the economic cycle is very likely to favor her in the next two congressional elections.