are fans pulling against UT so Holly is fired?

#51

glv98

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#51
No. Holly needs to be fired the morning after their season ends, but I am not rooting against them. I am rooting for an AD with the sense and stones to fairly evaluate the state and direction of the program, therefore dismissing Holly whether they win in the postseason or not.
Problem is we have multiple seasons of lack of sense and stones, including last year, only slightly better than this year, after which she was rewarded with a new contract! With dismissal at least two seasons overdue, you can see why we suspect the AD may be looking for any tiny victory as reason to keep digging the hole deeper.

I don't like feeling this way, never thought I would. Been saying for a few years I wish everything surrounding LV basketball would hurry up and get fun again.
 
#54

GUNTERSVOL

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#54
#56
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#56
Probably right. Question-Is the decision solely up to Fulmer? Given the realatively low buyout as compared to football, hopefully money will not be the only factor in the decision. Stop the bleeding and start fresh.
She’s causing the brand to lose $$ so hopefully they can send her off with cause rather than the Tennessee way and pay money they don’t have. There needs to be new blood with passion and intensity. The brand is still a magnet for anyone with top talent so it shouldn’t be a drawn out turnaround
 
#58
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#58
Absolutely not, real fans cannot pull for a loss on the players record for any reason. Also, Adams ceased being a real journalist many years ago.... anybody that buys into his stuff needs to review their mental health insurance for sure.... Pretty simple really..
The fans don’t have to do much when the HC sets her own standards which were not very high to begin with. Real fan or not they (the AD) need to know that the fans are the life blood. If they don’t get good product it wouldn’t matter if you had 5 Parkers trot out on the court they won’t spend the money. Fulmer needs to understand that yes it fell on him to fix football and so far he hasn’t held back the money to do so the same needs to be done with the Lady Vols. Open up the books fix this and get them back where the fans wants them to be in the FF.
 
#59

glv98

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#59
OK maybe it sounds better if we put it this way - I don't actively root for them to lose but I sure don't care as much as I used to because (I hope) every loss and every nega-first brings us closer to the action I feel is necessary to stop the demise of the program.

Can you be for something (changing coaches) but be against the thing (losses) most likey to make thing 1 happen?

Agree to disagree about Adams. The one so-called journalist in this town who does not live in fear of not being on the Vol Network in some capacity. Always willing to call out their sh#t. I'm just amazed it took him this long to state the painfully obvious.

To say Holly has been handled with the kiddiest of gloves by all involved (cept us I guess) would also be painfully obvious.
 
#60

dunkingdan

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#60
I will never root for any of our teams to lose but I will root for her to be fired. Should’ve been done at least 3 years ago.
Many started having questions well before then. However the trigger should have been pulled 3-4 years ago. I hope if they replace her it is a quality hire. I have never stopped pulling for the ladies, but I cannot watch the poor product on the floor that begins from the staff.
 
#62

jamesthesame

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#62
Phillip Fulmer is very resistant to change. Not sure he’ll replace her at all.
I'm sure Fulmer won't be AD forever. He is probably hoping he can get out of the role without firing anyone.

This is just speculation though.

He may fire Holly after the SEC Tourny loss.

12000 fewer tickets sold per home game has to hurt the bottom line.
 
#63
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#63
I would sincerely hope that no real UT fan would ever root for any of our teams to lose for any reason. But, looking through some of these comments, it appears that some might be doing that or leaning that way.
 
#64

glv98

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#64
Yeah Brainless Dave Hart was responsible for that:rolleyes:
Speaking of Mad Dave Hart, this has been on my mind since it was posted a couple of weeks ago. Is this true? Does anyone know? Sounds authentic and well-sourced but you never know. If true, it makes the current nightmare SO much worse. LOL so naturally I had to share it. Could have, should have all been avoided and begins with a horrible insult to Pat:
First time poster here. I got booted off another message board because the posters did not like what I was posting. But I want to be clear: Pat did not choose Holly. Dave Hart chose Holly. In a meeting with Hart, he fired Pat, pure and simple. Pat was devastated because she requested one more year so that she could have one year with Tyler by her side as a grad assistant. It had always been their dream to one day coach together. The plan was for him to be the grad assistant and then go on to another university as an assistant and learn the craft. Hart denied her request and told her that Holly would be the new coach.

Hart knew that Holly would come very cheap (and remember the financial woes at that time) and he knew that Pat could not object to her loyal long-time assistant and the fan base would embrace Holly, thinking that she was Pat's choice.

The reality is in 2008 I had a lengthy conversation with a relative of Pat's and one of her best friends while we were at the tournament. We were having dinner and the family member told me that Pat was not in good health. He was not referring to dementia--at that time no one had any idea that she would have that horrible disease--but he was referring to her horrible rheumatoid arthritis. He told me that she knew she had limited years left to coach because the pain was horrible and flying exacerbated the pain. She was therefore making plans for her future retirement. I was told that she wanted to coach at least until Tyler could be a grad assistant so that they could coach together. She had definite ideas about whom she wanted to succeed her and it was not Holly. She did want Holly to be able to continue to be an assistant if at all possible, but Holly was not her choice to succeed her--at least in 2008. I did not want at that time to even dare to think that Pat would retire any time soon, but her family member told me to accept the fact that Pat's health would dictate an earlier retirement than what she wanted. At that time she still felt she could win ten national championships and turn the program over to the next coach. Of course, at that time no one knew that she would get this horrible disease.

At the end of the season and after winning her last national championship, Pat encouraged Caldwell to take the head coaching position at UCLA and to get much needed experience as a head coach. Unfortunately for Pat, she then turned over recruiting to Holly entirely. Caldwell had been her chief recruiter and evaluator of talent, but Pat had also been involved. Now because of her illness and reluctance to fly more than she had done previously, Holly had the reigns. One of the knocks on Holly from former lady vols who have spoken to me is that Holly is terrible at evaluating talent. They told me that UT missed out on some great prospects because Holly did not think that they were good enough. Instead, I do not think that Holly chose wisely and we all know that Pat did not get to another final four. Some of this may have been her dementia that probably was in effect long before the diagnosis, but others have maintained that Pat did not have the right players in her latter years.

I have had the honor to know many former Lady Vols and to know Pat's good friends. I know that as a new poster I have little credibility here, but I think it is important to set the record straight about Holly. In 2008 Holly was not Pat's choice. She loved Holly, but if you ask any former player, she will tell you in crunch time, she did not turn to Holly for answers. In fact, several lady vols were aghast that Holly was going to be the coach who succeeded Pat. They loved her but they recognized her limitations. I honestly felt that she deserved the opportunity, but I was wrong. This program is on the decline for sure and Holly does not have a clue on how to right the ship.

And for the record, Holly was not a good recruiter. The reason she has recruited well now is her assistant who replaced Kyra Elzy. Even so, I question that Holly has chosen well.
If true, WTF was wrong with Dave Hart? Insane? Sadistic? What earthly reason would he have to over rule the dying legend's wish for her own exit and also choose a successor he knew or strongly suspected not to be capable of the job? All to save a bit of $ on a bargain basement coach? This is like a bad soap opera villain.

If so many who knew the program well, including Pat, doubted Holly, who was for her and eventually won the day? Maybe I'm naive for pooh poohing the influence of the mythical blue hair hoard. Maybe they really are waving their walkers and wearing Maria Cornelius tshirts and weilding mad influence over the AD.

If we knew all this, why the hell have we let the coach we suspected was ill-equipped wither on the vine for the better part of a decade?

This is all just super disturbing but if we're going to clean this house and shore it up before it completely collapses I think its important to understand what really happened. Also if we can exonerate Pat from the bad decision to hand off the baton to Holly, we should absolutely do so.
 
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#65

Tennesseefan2019

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#65
I'm sure Fulmer won't be AD forever. He is probably hoping he can get out of the role without firing anyone.

This is just speculation though.

He may fire Holly after the SEC Tourny loss.

12000 fewer tickets sold per home game has to hurt the bottom line.
I think Phil Fulmer will be retired again by 2021
 
#67

VolsGrad1989

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#67
We all know if that happens she’s gets a bump in $ and years. The last thing we need is Fulmer to be like Ham and give rewards for mediocrity
This program isn't even mediocrity should they win a couple of NCAA games compared to the dominant teams Pat had. Fulmer is more concerned about the sports cash cow football team. But, even he knows you can't have a coach embarrass the program that was built into a dominant one by Pat. I also think he adored Pat. Mediocrity doesn't get it done at UT in women's basketball, men's basketball, softball, baseball, and certainly not football. I would be happy with all those teams being very successful no matter what the other sports do. The three sports in bold are the ones that support the entire athletic department, especially football.
 
#68

madtownvol

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#68
Speaking of Mad Dave Hart, this has been on my mind since it was posted a couple of weeks ago. Is this true? Does anyone know? Sounds authentic and well-sourced but you never know. If true, it makes the current nightmare SO much worse. LOL so naturally I had to share it. Could have, should have all been avoided and begins with a horrible insult to Pat:


If true, WTF was wrong with Dave Hart? Insane? Sadistic? What earthly reason would he have to over rule the dying legend's wish for her own exit and also choose a successor he knew or strongly suspected not to be capable of the job? All to save a bit of $ on a bargain basement coach? This is like a bad soap opera villain.

If so many who knew the program well, including Pat, doubted Holly, who was for her and eventually won the day? Maybe I'm naive for pooh poohing the influence of the mythical blue hair hoard. Maybe they really are waving their walkers and wearing Maria Cornelius tshirts and weilding mad influence over the AD.

If we knew all this, why the hell have we let the coach we suspected was ill-equipped wither on the vine for the better part of a decade?

This is all just super disturbing but if we're going to clean this house and shore it up before it completely collapses I think its important to understand what really happened. Also if we can exonerate Pat from the bad decision to hand off the baton to Holly, we should absolutely do so.
Another poster in an another thread, replicated this story almost verbatim, with the new poster now being the one who had the inside conversation with Pat's relative. I checked and got into an extended discussion that poster who kept revising the story, as I highlighted several places where the timeline did match up.
In effect, its largely BS; thought like any urban legend there may be some grain of truth buried in there but on the whole, it is just a hatchet job on Holly.
 
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#69

glv98

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#69
Another poster in an another, replicated this story almost verbatim, with the new poster now being the one who had the inside conversation with Pat's relative. I checked and got into an extended discussion that poster who kept revising the story, as I highlighted very places where the timeline did match up.
In effect, its largley BS; like any urban legend there may be some grain of truth buried in there but on the whole, it is just hatchet job on Holly.
Thanks, makes me feel better. Even if there was some kind of push to hire an known inept Holly, it makes zero sense to me why he would deny Pat her wish for a final year. Its just too unneccessarily cruel. I have heard this story crop up from time to time, but never in this detail. Holly's body of work is indictment enough, does not need embellishing.
 
#71

Undercovervol

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#71
I’m definitely rooting for them to lose. Based on Phil’s statements in the past, I think he’s looking for reasons to keep Warlick. If they compile losses so horrendous that he has no other choice, I think that’s what it will take to remove Warlick.
 
#72
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#72
This program isn't even mediocrity should they win a couple of NCAA games compared to the dominant teams Pat had. Fulmer is more concerned about the sports cash cow football team. But, even he knows you can't have a coach embarrass the program that was built into a dominant one by Pat. I also think he adored Pat. Mediocrity doesn't get it done at UT in women's basketball, men's basketball, softball, baseball, and certainly not football. I would be happy with all those teams being very successful no matter what the other sports do. The three sports in bold are the ones that support the entire athletic department, especially football.
But if they go on a run it’ll put Fulmer in a hard spot
 
#75

SN-A-C Orange

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#75
Okay ... I will own it. I have not looked at ANY on the Lady Vols games, box scores, or listened to them on radio. Oh and so there is no misunderstanding... I bleed ORANGE! I did take the girls AND 15 points against MsSt. Sad day when I need 15 points.

What I would like .. is for Phil to call Holly in and ask for her plan for the LV next year .. how she is going to get them in top 3 SEC and top 15 in womens basketball. If the plan is not significantly different than this year ... it would be insane to keep doing the same things and magically expect a different outcome.

Sometimes we have to save people from themselves ... we tell them ... it's not working out. They need a new start ... in a new direction. Sometimes they can see it ... for themselves and they offer their resignation. When they don't... we are doing them a disservice to leave them in a job they cannot succeed at ... give them a different job ... or give them a release.

Take Randy Sanders ... ill prepared to be OC at TN. After more training ... he did become a decent OC. Now, a head coach! But sometimes employees are in over their head. When that happens we have to help them find something else that works for them ... not leave them in a job they can't do.

Sorry for the length.
 

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