Alvin Kamara fastest ever

[Gandalf]

How in the world Botch Jones didn't just line up Dobbs ,Kamara, and Hurd all in the same backfield is mind boggling. 95 Nebraska wishbone style. Would of been nasty beyond belief.

I could never understand this. Basically a triple threat run with a serviceable throw downfield, our Offense should have been setting permanent records for UT. Butch so wasted the talent that was here.

 

[Delmar]

Sure, he does now. Compare Kamara’s usage in year 1 in both systems to compare apples to apples

That just tells me that Payton is adaptable to his talent and why he is one of the top coaches in the NFL. Jones on the other hand is anything but adaptable and that is why he is at Arkansas State. He never used Kamara to full capability.

 

[lukeneyland]

How in the world Botch Jones didn't just line up Dobbs ,Kamara, and Hurd all in the same backfield is mind boggling. 95 Nebraska wishbone style. Would of been nasty beyond belief.

It’s because our O line was bad. The problem was that we didn’t work hard enough to get Dobbs and Kamara in space. We never got the most out of any of our main offensive players

 

[goldvol]

The problem is that isn't apples to apples either. Mark Ingram was a 7yr veteran coming off the #11 rushing season in the league and 3rd highest YPC among 1K rushers when Kamara arrived in NO. Hurd was a SO with 190 collegiate carries and 899y to his name when Kamara came in at the top of the JUCO pile having just rushed for 1200+ yards in only 9 games. Then this happened. (from a prior post of mine on the subject)

In the opening game of the '15 season Kamara had 15c for 144y. He wouldn't see more than 7c 'til game 10. Meanwhile Hurd went on to the 3rd most carries by a Vol back ever in a season.

In games both played in '15/'16 Hurd averaged 21cpg vs Kamara's 8. That's 391c vs 153 or 72% vs 28%. If you think Kamara's making that up in receptions it's just a tick of the needle; 68% vs 32% touches.

The all or nothing route many take in this discussion is silly. There's no reason for anyone to insist Kamara should have relegated Hurd to pine rider. Having said that the disparity between those numbers above considering Kamara's talent is (and was) absurd.

Long story short: Kamara played second fiddle to the established successful rb’s in the system while still having an immediate impact in both systems.

 

[2GeeZ4VolZ]

Running backs have a finite number of carries/touches (college included) before they experience significant and sometimes catastrophic skill degradation. Butch’s incompetence may have unwittingly contributed to AK’s career longevity. Not a Butch fan, just thought it was worth a take.

 

[vader]

How in the world Botch Jones didn't just line up Dobbs ,Kamara, and Hurd all in the same backfield is mind boggling. 95 Nebraska wishbone style. Would of been nasty beyond belief.

Hot take alert: I'm not sure Butch is a very good coach.

 

[hndog609]

Long story short: Kamara played second fiddle to the established successful rb’s in the system while still having an immediate impact in both systems.

Short story short Ingram was far, far more an "established" back in comparison to Kamara in the NFL than Hurd was a collegiate one. (Kamara actually being older, RS season at AL and top ranked JUCO season to Hurd's Fr season)

From my post.

There's no reason for anyone to insist Kamara should have relegated Hurd to pine rider. Having said that the disparity between those numbers above considering Kamara's talent is (and was) absurd.

There isn't anything else.

 

[goldvol]

Short story short Ingram was far, far more an "established" back in comparison to Kamara in the NFL than Hurd was a collegiate one. (Kamara actually being older, RS season at AL and top ranked JUCO season to Hurd's Fr season)

From my post.

There's no reason for anyone to insist Kamara should have relegated Hurd to pine rider. Having said that the disparity between those numbers above considering Kamara's talent is (and was) absurd.

There isn't anything else.

well, yeah there is more. Obviously more was known about Kamaras talent after he had success at Tennessee. So Payton had much information to evaluate Kamara’s talent based on his work against SEC caliber players, as did every other NFL team who passed on him in the draft, than Butch had watching him against JUCO talent. It’s also likely that Kamara took big leaps in Butch Jones system and Payton’s system as he developed over the years, clearly, into one of the best NFL backs

 

[Vol Farmer]

CBJ was such an idiot

Ya think ???

 

[overseasorange2]

CBJ was such an idiot

He still is

 

[Cartervol]

Hot take alert: I'm not sure Butch is a very good coach.

That was kind of obvious early on. His used car salesman pitch lasted til about late 2016 when he blew the East when it was his to lose..

 

[cobbwebb0710]

I screamed this at the tv more than 50 times in '16.

With those 3 in the backfield - pick your poison. Who ya gonna cover?

Also idiotic was Botch running Kamara up the middle and Hurd to the outside. It should have been exactly reversed. Botch was an imbecile.

I still scream this in my sleep sometimes.
GBO!!

 

[UTblood4life]

Imagine Kamara in this offense

 

[UTblood4life]

Hurd knew Kamara was better and bitched and whined, hey Hurd how bout the td against Georgia u didn't get and Dobbs tossed the hail Mary to make everything good

 

[UTblood4life]

Wasn't he a Roll Tide before coming to UT? Maybe Saban was the bigger idiot.

Yes transferred to the ever famous Hutchinson Kansas then to us

 

[peaygolf]

Roger Craig is pretty good company to be in

One of the most underrated players ever. Imagine him in todays game. Wow!

 

[Kngsport VFL]

Three former Vols are starters for the Saints. Nice to see the Tennessee connection.

Saints are my second favorite team, After Titans, of course.

 

[Carl Pickens]

How in the world Botch Jones didn't just line up Dobbs ,Kamara, and Hurd all in the same backfield is mind boggling. 95 Nebraska wishbone style. Would of been nasty beyond belief.

I still wonder why Evan Berry only returned kicks. He looked to be a great athlete

 

[Carl Pickens]

One of the most underrated players ever. Imagine him in todays game. Wow!

 

[1world1love]

Imagine Kamara in this offense

Better yet, imagine Heupel with the roster from 2016. That would have been something to see.

 

[UTblood4life]

Better yet, imagine Heupel with the roster from 2016. That would have been something to see.

with Tim banks no way we would lose the east

 

[hndog609]

well, yeah there is more. Obviously more was known about Kamaras talent after he had success at Tennessee. So Payton had much information to evaluate Kamara’s talent based on his work against SEC caliber players, as did every other NFL team who passed on him in the draft, than Butch had watching him against JUCO talent. It’s also likely that Kamara took big leaps in Butch Jones system and Payton’s system as he developed over the years, clearly, into one of the best NFL backs

No. The entire draft angle is a red herring. (nevermind who he was "passed on" for at the position.

This is really simple. I don't know why you think it's such a shiny thing to try and compare NO to here in the first place but even when you do it's not good for your argument. (as discussed) I can only assume you weren't aware that while there was little need to sit down Ingram (You do know he made the Pro Bowl in '17, right?) for Kamara regarding the majority of the carries Payton made great use of him anyway. Were you aware Alvin was #13 in the league in receptions in '17? Note I didn't say "among RBs", I mean for all positions. In fact Alvin had more scrimmage yards than Ingram. (yeah, you read that right)

Look, if you want to sit there and say that it makes sense to you a talent like Kamara should have had a disparity to Hurd in touches in games both played to the tune of 68% to 32% then carry on but don't expect much company.

 

[goldvol]

No. The entire draft angle is a red herring. (nevermind who he was "passed on" for at the position.

This is really simple. I don't know why you think it's such a shiny thing to try and compare NO to here in the first place but even when you do it's not good for your argument. (as discussed) I can only assume you weren't aware that while there was little need to sit down Ingram (You do know he made the Pro Bowl in '17, right?) for Kamara regarding the majority of the carries Payton made great use of him anyway. Were you aware Alvin was #13 in the league in receptions in '17? Note I didn't say "among RBs", I mean for all positions. In fact Alvin had more scrimmage yards than Ingram. (yeah, you read that right)

Look, if you want to sit there and say that it makes sense to you a talent like Kamara should have had a disparity to Hurd in touches in games both played to the tune of 68% to 32% then carry on but don't expect much company.

Funny how you keep giving NO stats but not highlighting how Kamara was utilized by Jones.
Kamara had more receptions than Hurd in both 2015 and 2016, their snap count and rushing attempts were pretty similar in 2016 (albeit Hurd didnt play the full season). it's not like Kamara was riding the pine with 2000 yards and 23 TDs. Not to mention that Hurd would have easily set the ALL-time Tennessee rushing record if he hadnt quit, still finishing as #6 in all of Tennessee rushing history over Hardesty, Graham, Houston.
Hurd then went to Baylor and still put up good numbers, and would be playing in the NFL if not for injuries. Lordy, what would you have done? Put Hurd on the bench so our offense was predictable?

And, they were both drafted in the third round of the NFL draft. So that means every NFL level evaluator had them at about the same talent level when they finished college....
so yeah, i stand by the fact the Jones utilized Kamara well at Tennessee, given that we had two really good running backs (one that was a quitter tho).

 

[hndog609]

Funny how you keep giving NO stats but not highlighting how Kamara was utilized by Jones.
Kamara had more receptions than Hurd in both 2015 and 2016, their snap count and rushing attempts were pretty similar in 2016 (albeit Hurd didnt play the full season). it's not like Kamara was riding the pine with 2000 yards and 23 TDs. Not to mention that Hurd would have easily set the ALL-time Tennessee rushing record if he hadnt quit, still finishing as #6 in all of Tennessee rushing history over Hardesty, Graham, Houston.
Hurd then went to Baylor and still put up good numbers, and would be playing in the NFL if not for injuries. Lordy, what would you have done? Put Hurd on the bench so our offense was predictable?

And, they were both drafted in the third round of the NFL draft. So that means every NFL level evaluator had them at about the same talent level when they finished college....
so yeah, i stand by the fact the Jones utilized Kamara well at Tennessee, given that we had two really good running backs (one that was a quitter tho).

No idea why you're so invested in this line of thought you would throw up straw men, misdirection and non sequitur. Why would you question citing NO stats when that comparison was brought by you? Who has equated Kamara's time here with "riding the pine"? Who has suggested to have "Put Hurd on the bench"? What does naming other RB's or Baylor or NFL drafts have to do with the topic at all? The basics of this are based on the same set of demonstrable facts that have been cited before, here now and likely in the future when the topic comes back around by any number of posters.

The Payton/Jones comparison was a lost cause from the outset. Payton made Kamara a superstar right our of the gate. Jones did nothing of the sort here. The approach of "but Butch did X with Kamara" doesn't hold up when literally the context of the discussion is what Butch didn't do with such an asset.

There's no unhappening that repeatedly cited 68% to 32% touch disparity in shared games. It's immutable. If you want to own it and say "looks fine to me" then so be it but lots (most?) people on here think that's wack.

Were you aware that in the 5 games a Hurdless Kamara played John Kelly came from previously 3rd string to jump to more carries than Alvin? Kamara makes up enough ground with receptions to take back the lead in total touches but obviously it's close. It's not all about Hurd when clearly Alvin couldn't obviously be "the man" after Hurd left.

Wherever ones opinion may fall on the "correct" dispersion of touches Alvin Kamara should have gotten a good deal more than he did while at UT.

 

[goldvol]

No idea why you're so invested in this line of thought you would throw up straw men, misdirection and non sequitur. Why would you question citing NO stats when that comparison was brought by you? Who has equated Kamara's time here with "riding the pine"? Who has suggested to have "Put Hurd on the bench"? What does naming other RB's or Baylor or NFL drafts have to do with the topic at all? The basics of this are based on the same set of demonstrable facts that have been cited before, here now and likely in the future when the topic comes back around by any number of posters.

The Payton/Jones comparison was a lost cause from the outset. Payton made Kamara a superstar right our of the gate. Jones did nothing of the sort here. The approach of "but Butch did X with Kamara" doesn't hold up when literally the context of the discussion is what Butch didn't do with such an asset.

There's no unhappening that repeatedly cited 68% to 32% touch disparity in shared games. It's immutable. If you want to own it and say "looks fine to me" then so be it but lots (most?) people on here think that's wack.

Were you aware that in the 5 games a Hurdless Kamara played John Kelly came from previously 3rd string to jump to more carries than Alvin? Kamara makes up enough ground with receptions to take back the lead in total touches but obviously it's close. It's not all about Hurd when clearly Alvin couldn't obviously be "the man" after Hurd left.

Wherever ones opinion may fall on the "correct" dispersion of touches Alvin Kamara should have gotten a good deal more than he did while at UT.

You make a lot of noise while providing little evidence. Yes, Kamara developed into a star that he is today. No, that is clearly not evidence that when he was 20 years old he should have been used more.
Your entire argument boils down to "because of Kamara's NFL success, Butch should have played him more". You're the guy who thinks that having the outcome means you should have made a different wager.
Hurd was well on his way to setting the rushing record. You present only evidence of his post facto success as being a reason he was under utilized, and no collegiate evidence of why he deserved a "higher touch disparity".
Besides that he was a third round NFL draft pick, had plenty of yards, and plenty of TDS at the collegiate level.
It's also funny that had he gotten say twice as many college touches as he did, it would have added wear and tear on his body, decreasing his NFL playing career.
production is much more valuable than "touches"