'24 AL EDGE Jordan Ross (Tennessee)

[LittleVol]

I get so much second-hand embarrassment from reading your posts, it hurts sometimes.

Better than 2nd hand smoke! haha

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

Better than 2nd hand smoke! haha

Or Sloppy Seconds.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Heupel and his staff just took two commitments that are 3 stars.

The recruiting services know more than Heupel, right?

Nope. Didn’t say that. But stars matter and there is data to prove it. You know it’s funny. Let’s take Nico. When he committed, this board was excited as all get out. Why? Was it solely because hex was a great player? No and you know it. A big reason why everyone got really excited was because of his ranking. You can try and say that doesn’t matter all you want but it’s factually incorrect.

Stars matter.

 

[Batman1948]

Nope. Didn’t say that. But stars matter and there is data to prove it. You know it’s funny. Let’s take Nico. When he committed, this board was excited as all get out. Why? Was it solely because hex was a great player? No and you know it. A big reason why everyone got really excited was because of his ranking. You can try and say that doesn’t matter all you want but it’s factually incorrect.

Stars matter.

Cam Sutton

 

[bigl3327]

@bigl3327 , This is the type of prospect we need. Not some kid that still calls soccer "football"

I've been hyping Ross since he first came on the board. I like Okoye as a potential TE candidate. We're in on too many top end EDGE recruits to take a project at that position. Okoye is a long term developmental guy at any position, but that caliber of athlete at TE is beyond rare.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Cam Sutton

Alvin Kamara

 

[sjt18]

Why did they take Nico over Kenny Minchey?

Because Heupel thought Nico was more talented. Period. That's all. It wasn't because he had 5* or any of that. Heupel saw a very talented guy who he thought would be great in his system and pursued him with a vengeance.

Does rating only matter in that instance?

That instance doesn't prove that ratings "matter". Talent matters. Ratings are an attempt (sort of) by journalists to identify talented players. As I posted elsewhere, those ratings have more value on "average" than for any particular player. You and a few others act as if those ratings define the talent of the player. They don't.

Unless something changed, UT uses a true recruiting consultant. They profile and evaluate players and deliver a list of possibilities to the staff. The staff evaluates and ranks those potential signees. On more than one occasion, that process yielded the taking of an early commit from a lowly 3* that no one else seemed very interested in.

Whether you like it or not... what Heupel gets out of THOSE players will have a lot more to do with his eventual success than getting loads of "5* players".

I bet if they had landed Kam Pringle and had Brandon Baker already on board they wouldn’t have taken both of those 3 stars

Who knows? Maybe not. OTOH, Baker is still uncommitted, right? Yet they took those two commits. So either they're satisfied with them or they have room for him regardless.

 

[terrypedigo]

YES STARS matter look at the past National Championship, look who is at the top, its plain and simple stars and ratings matter wish it didn't but it does.

 

[SweetasSoda]

YES STARS matter look at the past National Championship, look who is at the top, its plain and simple stars and ratings matter wish it didn't but it does.

Repeat….

Getting a team with a lot of stars matters.

2 and 3 star players develop into very successful NFL players.

Some players do not develop no matter their star rating.

We have coaches that get the most out of the players they get and recognize talent better than the recruiting sites. So no need to panic.

 

[jakez4ut]

gawd this debate is dumb.

In a vacuum, if you sign 5+ 5*'s... And a bunch of 4*'s after that... Consider your bet hedged. But not every blue chip Bama, UGA, OSU sign turns into the greatest thing ever. All it does is make the next guy up more likely to be able to play.

This applies to about 4-5 programs currently, including those mentioned above.

Err'body else better get what they can from the top and have good evaluators on staff for the rest.

This isn't hard.

 

[SweetasSoda]

gawd this debate is dumb.

In a vacuum, if you sign 5+ 5*'s... And a bunch of 4*'s after that... Consider your bet hedged. But not every blue chip Bama, UGA, OSU sign turns into the greatest thing ever. All it does is make the next guy up more likely to be able to play.

This applies to about 4-5 programs currently, including those mentioned above.

Err'body else better get what they can from the top and have good evaluators on staff for the rest.

This isn't hard.

I don’t understand why some want to make it so difficult to understand!!! (@Glitch has got me evaluating everything I type!)

 

[jbr82]

Cam Sutton

Eric Berry

 

[sjt18]

Talent matters. Just talent. Only talent.

Stars are incidental to talent.

 

[bigl3327]

Repeat….

Getting a team with a lot of stars matters.

2 and 3 star players develop into very successful NFL players.

Some players do not develop no matter their star rating.

We have coaches that get the most out of the players they get and recognize talent better than the recruiting sites. So no need to panic.

People act like he's getting the same type of recruits he was getting at UCF (where he was still beating more talented teams). This whole thought that we are supposed to be recruiting at the same level as Georgia and Bama right now is absurd. We're in litigation with the NCAA as we speak, but some believe that somehow that's not being used against by Georgia and Bama. With all factors being considered, our staff is doing an amazing job with this team and on the recruiting trail. If you want more evidence.... Spring practice is over, but how many guys have we had hit the portal with the new open window? I'm not saying we won't have any, but nobody jumped out there immediately. That speaks volumes about the culture they have established and minimizing turnover. If you don't have turnover, you get to develop guys in YOUR system.

 

[sjt18]

gawd this debate is dumb.

In a vacuum, if you sign 5+ 5*'s... And a bunch of 4*'s after that... Consider your bet hedged. But not every blue chip Bama, UGA, OSU sign turns into the greatest thing ever. All it does is make the next guy up more likely to be able to play.

This applies to about 4-5 programs currently, including those mentioned above.

Err'body else better get what they can from the top and have good evaluators on staff for the rest.

This isn't hard.

Those 4 or 5 programs have proven evaluators and coaching success. Their targets get higher ratings because 1) they're safer bets since those recruiters know how to find and evaluate talent, 2) they're going to be coached up and look good even if their actual talent isn't as good as someone else, and 3) those programs tend to have hyper-active fanbases the "buy" a lot of what the recruiting sites sell.

 

[sjt18]

People act like he's getting the same type of recruits he was getting at UCF (where he was still beating more talented teams). This whole thought that we are supposed to be recruiting at the same level as Georgia and Bama right now is absurd. We're in litigation with the NCAA as we speak, but some believe that somehow that's not being used against by Georgia and Bama. With all factors being considered, our staff is doing an amazing job with this team and on the recruiting trail. If you want more evidence.... Spring practice is over, but how many guys have we had hit the portal with the new open window? I'm not saying we won't have any, but nobody jumped out there immediately. That speaks volumes about the culture they have established and minimizing turnover. If you don't have turnover, you get to develop guys in YOUR system.

We do not know that they aren't. The players that UGA and Bama are getting are very likely to be talented. Their ratings reflect measurables... and the fact that they're priority targets for two of CFB's most successful programs. That simply does not mean that the guys UT is getting do not have as much or more potential. The recruiting sites are NOT that accurate.

There is one undeniable way that any thinking, rational person can KNOW the recruiting sites aren't even trying to be "accurate" in the sense many here think. They artificially limit how many 4* and 5* ratings they give out and hand out about the same number every year. If they were accurate like some think then one year there might be 50 5* players and 400 4* players and the next there might be 20 5* players and 150 4* players. Their purpose is NOT to accurately rate players. Their purpose is to make money off of fans interested in recruiting.

 

[LittleVol]

I've been hyping Ross since he first came on the board. I like Okoye as a potential TE candidate. We're in on too many top end EDGE recruits to take a project at that position. Okoye is a long term developmental guy at any position, but that caliber of athlete at TE is beyond rare.

So rare...it's practically non-existent!

 

[sjt18]

YES STARS matter look at the past National Championship, look who is at the top, its plain and simple stars and ratings matter wish it didn't but it does.

You think the recruiters follow the stars rather than the stars following the recruiters.

If you do what 247 does... and you know that Smart can identify, sign, and develop players... and win at a high level then you pay VERY close attention to who he targets. By and large, if two kids with similar measurables and HS success but one is recruited by UGA, Bama, and OSU while the other is recruited by Oklahoma St, Tulane, and Iowa... the first one is going to get the higher rating.

 

[SweetasSoda]

People act like he's getting the same type of recruits he was getting at UCF (where he was still beating more talented teams). This whole thought that we are supposed to be recruiting at the same level as Georgia and Bama right now is absurd. We're in litigation with the NCAA as we speak, but some believe that somehow that's not being used against by Georgia and Bama. With all factors being considered, our staff is doing an amazing job with this team and on the recruiting trail. If you want more evidence.... Spring practice is over, but how many guys have we had hit the portal with the new open window? I'm not saying we won't have any, but nobody jumped out there immediately. That speaks volumes about the culture they have established and minimizing turnover. If you don't have turnover, you get to develop guys in YOUR system.

So so true!!!!

 

[Orange_Crush]

We do not know that they aren't. The players that UGA and Bama are getting are very likely to be talented. Their ratings reflect measurables... and the fact that they're priority targets for two of CFB's most successful programs. That simply does not mean that the guys UT is getting do not have as much or more potential. The recruiting sites are NOT that accurate.

There is one undeniable way that any thinking, rational person can KNOW the recruiting sites aren't even trying to be "accurate" in the sense many here think. They artificially limit how many 4* and 5* ratings they give out and hand out about the same number every year. If they were accurate like some think then one year there might be 50 5* players and 400 4* players and the next there might be 20 5* players and 150 4* players. Their purpose is NOT to accurately rate players. Their purpose is to make money off of fans interested in recruiting.

This stars argument is such faulty logic. It's stating that stars matter because highly rated (starred) players most often succeed, and there is a high correlation between stars and national championships.

That's like saying that only the chips in the pot at a poker table are worth anything because money won at poker tables can buy lots of things. However, if someone works hard and becomes a huge success at their job, they make money and that money can buy lots of things too. If someone gets really good at finding buried treasure, they will make alot of money that buys lots of things too.

There is a high correlation between poker winners and buying lots of things, so obviously poker matters.

Well duh. But it's stupid to argue that ONLY poker money spends.

For ease of reading, stars == poker chips. Talent equals money. The talent wins, not the stars. The talent is valuable no matter where/how it was found, or how/if it was rated.

To make the argument, "Then why did you star-haters cheer when we got Nico?" is pretty ignorant. It's like saying that we don't believe poker money will spend. Again... Duh. Of course poker money will generally spend. We're just not dense enough to believe that ONLY poker money will spend. We want a staff that can win poker hands, work hard to develop a stash, and also find buried treasure.

For the third time... Duh. This should be what every Vol fan wants.

 

[bigl3327]

We do not know that they aren't. The players that UGA and Bama are getting are very likely to be talented. Their ratings reflect measurables... and the fact that they're priority targets for two of CFB's most successful programs. That simply does not mean that the guys UT is getting do not have as much or more potential. The recruiting sites are NOT that accurate.

There is one undeniable way that any thinking, rational person can KNOW the recruiting sites aren't even trying to be "accurate" in the sense many here think. They artificially limit how many 4* and 5* ratings they give out and hand out about the same number every year. If they were accurate like some think then one year there might be 50 5* players and 400 4* players and the next there might be 20 5* players and 150 4* players. Their purpose is NOT to accurately rate players. Their purpose is to make money off of fans interested in recruiting.

When I say "on the same level", it's about the aesthetic put forth by recruiting services. So it's purely from a rankings standpoint. Whether the services are accurate or not is irrelevant when it comes to the majority of fans. It's all about appearances.

 

[Orange_Crush]

When I say "on the same level", it's about the aesthetic put forth by recruiting services. So it's purely from a rankings standpoint. Whether the services are accurate or not is irrelevant when it comes to the majority of fans. It's all about appearances.

The proverbial recruiting pennant.

 

[Clevegasvol]

So rare...it's practically non-existent!

 

[walkenvol]

How do you guys continue to argue over stars? Do you think you’re going to change the other guy’s position? Life’s too short to keep having to same discussion

 

[onevol74]

Would Cam Seldon be a 3 or 4 star if he had signed with Bama or Georgia? I rest my case.