A UGA Loss=Majors interim coach immediately.

#76
#76
Daddyof4 said:
If you can't Fulmer give credit for the good years you can't blame him for the bad years. :no:

I personally think he is a good coach who has lost his edge...burned out so to speak.
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Ive only been on this board since July, but after reading countless posts by countless members...evidently you can.

It doesnt make sense to me either.
 
#77
#77
GregAmsler said:
A. Alabama was NOT the only team to beat in the SEC. In fact in the 1980's the best program was Auburn, which won SEC titles in 83, 87, 88, and 89. Auburn was our Florida in the 80's. LSU also had 2 SEC titles and Georgia had 3. Alabama had ONE. Yet, they were the team to beat in the SEC huh? The SEC in the 80's was much more balanced than it was in the 90's, with Florida, Auburn, LSU, Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee all fielding national powers. You think Georgia was better under Goff and Donnan than they were under Dooley? You think Auburn was better under Bowden than they were under Pat Dye? LSU was WAY better in the 80's. Florida was also awesome even though they were usually on probation...that didn't make playing them any easier. Even Kentucky, under Jerry Claiborne fielded some tough bowl teams..whereas they sucked up the 90's. Man, saying the 3rd Saturday determined the SEC title was just an ignorant, idiotic statement.

B. Who cares that Majors didn't recruit any of the 1998 players. Do you honestly think Fulmer gets those players to come to UT without the groundwork Majors laid? What if Fulmer took over UT in 1992 and the program was in the same shape in which Majors found it in 1977? You think Fulmer wins a National Title 6 years later? Or EVER? Hell no! He cannot even maintain the elite program he inherited, why should we expect him to be able to actually BUILD one?!

C. The drinking accusations or talk of Majors' personal problems/behavior has nothing to do with the job he did at UT. It's a desperate argument.

D. I agree that Majors had a hard time with Bama. And Fulmer has had success against them. But Bama was much better in the 80's than they are now. When Bama has had a good team (05, 02, 94) they beat Fulmer. In fact, the ONLY time Fulmer beat a decent Bama team was in 96. He should've been able to do it in 93, but he wasn't able to determine what the rest of the stadium knew...that David Palmer would run around the end for the 2 pt. conversion. So if you're gonna knock Majors' Bama failure, you have to acknowldge Fulmer's Florida failure along with it, since they've replaced Bama as our toughest rival.
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UT was 4-5-1 against Auburn in the 80s...where do you get off saying they were our florida???

UT and AUBURN TIED for the SEC championship in 89. I still havent figured out why UT didnt go to NO instead of AU (since UT won the head to head that year). If JM beats Bama that year, UT goes undefeated and plays as SEC champs OUTRIGHT in the Sugar.
 
#78
#78
blamie said:
I agree...but that's where this whole argument about Fulmer being nothing without Majors is beyond me...

At what point does a coach stop benefiting from his predecessor and start deserving his own credit

Florida wasn't a huge player in college football before Spurrier but does that mean that he deserves credit for Meyer's recent NC? In UF's case...according to the logic laid down in this thread...Zook is the reason for that title.

And as far as that's concerned...Fulmer won his title 6 years after Majors...I don't think it's a stretch to say that the players on that team did NOT come here because of Majors...

But you are right that Majors influence on those players making the decision to come here cannot be proven or disproven and therfore the outright proof of a fallacy doesn't exist
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I do give Majors credit for bringing us back from the battle years...but there is no way, IMO, he would have ever taken us where Fulmer has.

I liken it to a relay race...battle got us behind, Majors gained on the leaders and Fulmer put us in the lead(for a while anyways). Now he seems to be falling back.

Point is PFs job was much easier thanks to Majors...but there was no way in heck JM was ever going to win us a MNC. As far as PF, sooner or later, the baton is going to have to be handed off to someone else.
 
#79
#79
orangeblooded_2 said:
UT was 4-5-1 against Auburn in the 80s...where do you get off saying they were our florida???

UT and AUBURN TIED for the SEC championship in 89. I still havent figured out why UT didnt go to NO instead of AU (since UT won the head to head that year). If JM beats Bama that year, UT goes undefeated and plays as SEC champs OUTRIGHT in the Sugar.
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A. I was pointing out that Auburn in the 80's, like Florida in the 90's, was the biggest team UT had to beat to win the SEC. It was also our first SEC game every year, just as Florida is now. I wasn't correlating our success against Auburn in the 80's with our success against UF in the 90's.

B. Auburn didn't go to New Orleans that year. Alabama did. Tennessee, Alabama, and Auburn all tied for the SEC title that season, with Tennessee beating Auburn, Auburn beating Alabama, and Alabama beating Tennessee. So the tiebreaker (as far as the Sugar Bowl) was the highest ranked team. That was Bama. Tennessee finished ranked the highest, though, after beating Arkansas in the Cotton. Auburn beat Ohio State in the HOF Bowl and Bama lost to Miami.
 
#80
#80
GregAmsler said:
A. I was pointing out that Auburn in the 80's, like Florida in the 90's, was the biggest team UT had to beat to win the SEC. It was also our first SEC game every year, just as Florida is now. I wasn't correlating our success against Auburn in the 80's with our success against UF in the 90's.

B. Auburn didn't go to New Orleans that year. Alabama did. Tennessee, Alabama, and Auburn all tied for the SEC title that season, with Tennessee beating Auburn, Auburn beating Alabama, and Alabama beating Tennessee. So the tiebreaker (as far as the Sugar Bowl) was the highest ranked team. That was Bama. Tennessee finished ranked the highest, though, after beating Arkansas in the Cotton. Auburn beat Ohio State in the HOF Bowl and Bama lost to Miami.
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Gotcha...on both parts
 
#81
#81
utfantilidie said:
Just for the remainder of the season.This can partially make up to him the way he was royally screwed over and even it up with Phil.I know Majors should have been let go just not while he was recovering from major heart by-pass surgery.That said . phil is no better than Johnny.
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Checked out of rehab a little early?
 
#82
#82
blamie said:
I absolutely believe that he would have. Fulmer is nothing if not a great recruiter...ask anyone in college football.

You're whole logic behind this is absurd...if you think Majors is the reason for the '98 NC then by that logic it's also his fault that we couldn't beat Florida from 94-97...therefore preventing us from getting probably one or more NC's during that period

In literary terms you're using a post hoc fallacy to try to prove your point. It's like saying my parents should get all of the credit for my college degree because they concieved me.

It's a major stretch...no pun intended...and it holds absolutely no weight in a logical debate
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Sure he's a great recruiter. Recruiting is a lot easier when you're recruiting to some of the best facilities in America and a prestigious and nationally acclaimed program that has a history of producing NFL talent. Those facilities were there in large part because of the efforts of John Majors, as was the prestige and NFL production. As I said, if Fulmer inherited a program like the one Majors inherited in 1977, there is no amount of recruiting in the world that would've landed that type of talent in Knoxville. Facilities were terrible at that time and recent history was mediocrity.

How you fail to see the correlation is beyond me. Of course there's a correlation between what Majors did to improve UT's program...in terms of talent, prestige, and facilities...and the National Title. Am I saying he deserves all the credit for it? Of course not. And Fulmer deserves credit for it, I'm not saying he doesn't. But it would not have been possible without the work that Majors put in, just as we owe much of our success to the work Neyland put in. That's nowhere near a stretch. That's plain as day.

Despite my disagreement on its relevance, I must, as an English major at UT, give you credit for using the term, "post hoc fallacy."
:thumbsup:
 
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