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#1

SolidRockGolf

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#1
This seems like a really good assessment and one to file under patience, something that seems to be lost in today’s world of “right now”.

Actually, what happened with Rick Barnes was he went away from what made him successful and he started chasing one and done type players. The 2012-13 team was talented, but did not work with his system. It was basically a giant recruiting misfire.

Barnes actually quickly recovered and started rebuilding a “Rick Barnes style” team.

The 2013-14 team tied for third in the Big 12 with an 11-7 conference record winning 24 games overall. They won their first round tournament game. Barnes had built a team that could make the sweet 16 or better the next two seasons.

The problem was impatient Texas fans were demanding he win big now and giving him no leeway.

Between his 1963 national title and 1969 and 70 national titles, DKR had a dry run of three consecutive 4 loss seasons from 1965-67. DKR didnt need a fresh start. He made some mistakes, adjusted, Texas was patient and he won two more titles.

Barnes had already adjusted and learned. Two bad things happended in 2014-15. The major issue was Isaiah Taylor got hurt and derailed the team. Even without Taylor, that team played Kentucky pretty close so the talent and team was there. However, losing Taylor really killed it. Taylor’s injury was not Rick Barnes’s fault or due to Rick needing energy or something.

The other was Barnes picked up one and done Miles Turner hoping he would provide a Kevin Durant type boost and put us over the top. Turner, however, was not developed enough to be a year one major contributor and he was really only interested in the NBA. Unfortunately, Barnes picked up the wrong “one and done”. To the people that complain Barnes misused or did not develop Turner, that is nonsense. Rick Barnes entire career is filled with fantastic player development. Look at the recruiting rankings of his classes at Tennessee. Like many of the 2012-13 players, Turner was not a good fit. As with Garret Gilbert, I am not sure there was any way to know he would not fit. He seemed like a one and done that would fit Barnes’ style. Turner was probably the last lesson Barnes needed to learn.

Barnes had learned and had his act together. He left Shaka Smart with a veteran team that should have EASILY made the Sweet 16. With Barnes at the helm, Ridley injury or not, I have no doubt that team makes the Sweet 16. If we leave Barnes in place one more year, that team makes the Sweet 16, Barnes rebuilds in 2016-17 and we are near or at where Tennessee is now.

Instead, our impatient and arrogant fanbase in the dumbest move in Texas sports history forced him out. Everything Barnes learned, he applied at Tennessee and they reaped the benefits. We fired him on the cusp of what could be his best coaching years.

Everyone has started this “he needed to get re-energized and stop being lazy” which is a bs excuse narrative that somehow is transitive from football with Mack Brown and honestly never made sense with Barnes. I think partially if fooftball never goes downhill, Barnes may still be our coach. Part of the problem was everyone kept attributing what was going on with football to everything.

Anyway, the only part of the “fresh start” narrative that is true is that at Tennesse, Barnes did not have a fanbase that had gone full retard on his back demanding he get to the final four now or be fired. He actually had the leeway to build for two years. He did not have to take risks on one and dones and could build a 2000s style Rick Barnes team. Anyway, Barnes benefited from a “fresh start” in that he got away from an idiotic fanbase and was able to build. If you put our dumb fanbase aside, I guarantee he would have rather stayed at Texas as he had a great team that could win and he had better recruiting. It would have been easier to rebuild in 2016-17 at Texas than take over a complete dumpster fire at Tennessee and start from scratch. However, I guess our impaitent and unwise fanbase made Tennessee the better opportunity for him.

Anyway, if you do not want to admit getting rid of him was stupid, keep telling yourself he was tired and needed to be re-energized to justify supporting an epically bad decision.

Rick Barnes and the Tennessee Basketball Uprising
 
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#2
#2
The poster is spot on IMO. It helps that Barnes doesn't settle or so set in his ways that he won't adjust his coaching philosophy. With as much success as he's had, he still studies the game and tweaks his defense and offense with trying new things. I love his passion. Thank you for screwing up Texas!!
 
#4
#4
Barnes isn't who I thought he was, that's for sure. Probably says more about me than him.

I thought he was going to be another Jerry Green. Recruit big, hands off, program semi-out of control. Get back in the Top 25 on talent alone, etc. Of course, from where we were with Cuonzo and Tyndall, I thought that that was ok and (mildly) supported the hire.

But he has been almost the complete opposite of all of that. Disciplinarian. Extraordinary player developer. Leader. Etc.
 
#5
#5
Good write up. If any Longhorn fan thinks it was the right decision to fire CRB then they are absolutely delusional. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a gentleman few days ago trying to convince me the crime in East Tennessee is just like it is in the Mid South, mostly Memphis. Utterly laughable and Texas can make excuses and deceive themselves all they want but that AD destroyed their football and basketball programs. Looks like maybe the football is recovering. As a Vol fan I'm excited because I'm not sure anyone else could have done what Rick has here in Knoxville. And I do know that Rick enjoys being close to home... Thanks a lot Texas because we benefitted from your, well, stupidity!!!
 
#6
#6
Barnes isn't who I thought he was, that's for sure. Probably says more about me than him.

I thought he was going to be another Jerry Green. Recruit big, hands off, program semi-out of control. Get back in the Top 25 on talent alone, etc. Of course, from where we were with Cuonzo and Tyndall, I thought that that was ok and (mildly) supported the hire.

But he has been almost the complete opposite of all of that. Disciplinarian. Extraordinary player developer. Leader. Etc.
I agree 100%. Those were my exact thoughts about Rick beforehand...but I was massively wrong...
 
#7
#7
Rick won’t admit it, but it took him being fired to change. And full kudos to him for doing it.

I would argue that, to the extent the firing did help reinvigorate him and give him a chance to start fresh, he doesn't have anything to admit. Not that I'm viewing your comment negatively, I'm just saying it makes complete sense and I think everyone can see that it was a net benefit. Though I imagine Texas feels a little differently.
 
#8
#8
I supported the Barnes hire. I felt that he was good for helping stabilize the program. I expected to become a consistent tournament program with Barnes and that we’d always be in the mix to make the tournament. Even I didn’t expect us to reach elite status, but thought we could catch a lightning rod season and land a 3-4 seed.

He’s absolutely reinvented himself and we get to reap the benefits.
 
#10
#10
Patients?
The doctor will have something to say about that.

Sometimes you miss what autocorrect changes when you reread..... but I digress, you did get me.

I think the mastermind Dr. here is CRB and the patients are Texas fans or the Tennessee CBB program. No?
 
#11
#11
I will be interested to see how the fans react next year, especially if Tennessee loses any of Williams, Bone, or Turner to early NBA draft declaration. In my mind Barnes has rapidly earned enough cachet to for fans to accept it won't always be 19-1 and #1 in the country with Tennessee, but sports fans can be fickle things and I hope they can think clearly about what Barnes brings to the table. Especially when we're (hopefully) seven years in on a successful basketball era, but starting to see articles about how "this is what it was like at Texas" or whatever else people who get paid by the clickthrough will write.
 
#12
#12
They sound almost exactly like UT Football fans who went nuts until Philip Fulmer was fired. Ten (almost all) utterly horrific years later, they still think it was "time for him to go". The funny part is after the past decade of complete humiliation, that the confidence level of "where Phil was going long term" is iron-clad. In 1,000 scenarios, Fulmer would not have collapsed our program to the point where it has went for an entire decade. Then the defense is "well Fulmer needed to go", but it was Hamilton, Kiffin, Dooley, Hart, or Jones that was the real mistake. Well Sherlock, that's what can and often DOES happen when you become entitled and fire your best coach in a generation. Those failures ALL fall under the scope of the original mistake of ... impatiently firing a legend due to a short term downturn in success. Those are inherent risks of the original decision.

I'm really talking about UTjr Basketball here. In 2026 when they are on their 3rd or 4th coach and sitting at the cellar of the Big??, there will still be a large contingent of fans saying "Barnes got complacent and needed to go". And of course, "the only reason he's got 5 national titles at TN since 2016 is because of us firing him and he got revitalized". LOL. Human pride often dies very hard.
 
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#13
#13
Texas gets big players every year. Since Barnes left texas has reeled in 3 #5 and 12 #4 stars. This was from 24/7 2016-2019. Shaka smart has had a mixed bag of results so far.
 
#14
#14
Honestly I think this season may be an outlier compared to other years but ya know what? I don’t care, I’m just glad our athletics has something to hang their hat on at the moment.

Even if we don’t win the NC, this year has gone better than I think anyone could have predicted. I say we just enjoy it for as long as it lasts.
 
#15
#15
I would argue that, to the extent the firing did help reinvigorate him and give him a chance to start fresh, he doesn't have anything to admit. Not that I'm viewing your comment negatively, I'm just saying it makes complete sense and I think everyone can see that it was a net benefit. Though I imagine Texas feels a little differently.

My main point is Barnes would never say that for obvious reason. Not that he needs too.
 
#16
#16
Good write up. If any Longhorn fan thinks it was the right decision to fire CRB then they are absolutely delusional. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a gentleman few days ago trying to convince me the crime in East Tennessee is just like it is in the Mid South, mostly Memphis. Utterly laughable and Texas can make excuses and deceive themselves all they want but that AD destroyed their football and basketball programs. Looks like maybe the football is recovering. As a Vol fan I'm excited because I'm not sure anyone else could have done what Rick has here in Knoxville. And I do know that Rick enjoys being close to home... Thanks a lot Texas because we benefitted from your, well, stupidity!!!

If you asked Vol fans who they would rather in March 2015, Rick Barnes or Shake Smart, 80% minimum would have said Smart

Hindsight is 20/20. I don’t blame Texas for firing Barnes and hiring Smart. Luckily Tennessee got the better end of it.
 
#17
#17
It's just like friends you see get divorced in a miserable marriage, even though their partner was a good person, then they remarry and are totally happy. Relationships can just run their course and the only good choice is to move on.
 
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#18
#18
Barnes was a legend at texas. Its hard to follow this. Smart’s record at texas 20-13/11-22/19-15 and 12-9 this year hardly stellar
 
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#19
#19
If you asked Vol fans who they would rather in March 2015, Rick Barnes or Shake Smart, 80% minimum would have said Smart

Hindsight is 20/20. I don’t blame Texas for firing Barnes and hiring Smart. Luckily Tennessee got the better end of it.
I'd be in that 80%. I'm glad it worked out for us and him.

I think he's more than a good coach, he's a good human being trying to make our young men better human beings.
 
#20
#20
If you asked Vol fans who they would rather in March 2015, Rick Barnes or Shake Smart, 80% minimum would have said Smart

Hindsight is 20/20. I don’t blame Texas for firing Barnes and hiring Smart. Luckily Tennessee got the better end of it.
Yep. I was one of those for sure, although I considered Barnes a nice consolation prize.

I actually don't fault Texas fans who think firing Barnes was still the right move. Barnes had hit a wall there, and it's not far-fetched to think he might never have returned to his original philosophy had he not been forced to start over and rebuild a program with 3 stars.
 
#21
#21
If you asked Vol fans who they would rather in March 2015, Rick Barnes or Shake Smart, 80% minimum would have said Smart

Hindsight is 20/20. I don’t blame Texas for firing Barnes and hiring Smart. Luckily Tennessee got the better end of it.
Obviously it was a mistake for Texas.
 
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#22
#22
I supported the Barnes hire. I felt that he was good for helping stabilize the program. I expected to become a consistent tournament program with Barnes and that we’d always be in the mix to make the tournament. Even I didn’t expect us to reach elite status, but thought we could catch a lightning rod season and land a 3-4 seed.

He’s absolutely reinvented himself and we get to reap the benefits.

Exactly what I thought. We'd be in the tournament nearly every year, have 2 - 3 years we were a 5 seed or better, maybe get to 1 elite 8 and he'd retire with our program on solid footing. NEVER did I dream we'd have the number 1 team in the country. That's why I make sure to watch every game I can and cherish this because it doesn't happen often. Love what he's done for this university and our program.
 
#23
#23
I agree 100%. Those were my exact thoughts about Rick beforehand...but I was massively wrong...

I am glad someone on here admits they was wrong. If the football fan would do the same thing they would not start their annual we are going to be great and then are disappointed when it just takes time to reverse a program.
 
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#24
#24
Good write up. If any Longhorn fan thinks it was the right decision to fire CRB then they are absolutely delusional. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a gentleman few days ago trying to convince me the crime in East Tennessee is just like it is in the Mid South, mostly Memphis. Utterly laughable and Texas can make excuses and deceive themselves all they want but that AD destroyed their football and basketball programs. Looks like maybe the football is recovering. As a Vol fan I'm excited because I'm not sure anyone else could have done what Rick has here in Knoxville. And I do know that Rick enjoys being close to home... Thanks a lot Texas because we benefitted from your, well, stupidity!!!
You're Welcome!

(a TN boy transplanted in Texas...)
 
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