A Post on Jordan Walker's Improvement

#1

37620VOL

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#1
I've leveled some tough criticism on JW in the past. So now I feel it is time to give her her due. Since we began SEC play JW has stepped up her game remarkably. I've noticed toughness, leadership, good passing, less shooting, and almost no "boneheaded" turnovers. She still takes uncontested 3s (good) but she now seems to have embraced being a pass-first PG. The role suits her.

Looking at her stats on a per 40-minute basis during conference games, JW is shooting 4 fewer field goals per game than she did last year but the same amount of 3-pointers. That means 4 more shots are being taken by someone like JH, RJ, or TD. She is also up one assist per 40 minutes and down almost 2 turnovers. There's 2 more shots for JH, RJ, or TD. Her steals, rebounds, and free throws are roughly the same.

Player Efficiency Rating (PER) is the best quick measure of a player's value to their team. Of course, it leaves some intangibles out but it's a nice stat to see if someone is improving. This year JW's in-conference PER is 13.7. Last season it was 11.8 and for this year's full-season it is 12.3.

Unfortunately, JP is headed in the opposite direction. For the season JP's PER is a respectable 13.6 but focus on conference play and it dives to 5.6.

2023 in-conference PER of other SEC PGs for comparison:
Myah Taylor 11.9
Zia Cooke 26.8!!! (She was 12.1 and 15.0 in the prior 2 seasons)
Annie Hayes 10.9 (for @Darth_Vol )
Alexis Morris 23.0
Samara Spencer 14.1

To get the 20+ PERs you have to put up a lot of shots, so doing her job I don't think JW can achieve that. Her job is mostly to give our other players high PERs (JH is 31.4 and RJ is 35.5, both well above their career averages). Lately, I think JW has been giving us exactly what we need at PG. What yall think?
 
#2

youcancallmeAl

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#2
I've noticd a marked improvement in defense, specifically staying in front of her man. She's improved on offense too, but I still see some silly passes and silly drives to the bucket with no chance of scoring. But her toughness and grit are up a notch or two, and that is saying something, because she's always been a warrior.
 
#5

lvocd

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#5
I do wish she was better at scoring, but like everyone else, I’m grateful for everything else she’s bringing.

One concern she’s going to need to work on is keeping her cool when she is face-guarded. If I were coaching against her I’d have my guards get as close to her as possible because she has shown more than just against UGA that she has low tolerance for anyone getting too close to her. Walker is lucky she only got a technical yesterday after swatting at the neck of Audrey Warren just because Warren was too close. I don’t think Warren did anything but pester the crap out of her and Walker way overreacted.

I laughed at somebody else’s comment about Warren touching her eyelashes, but it might actually BE that she’s that hyper-sensitive about her eyes. She sure as hell is willing to smack a b who gets near her eyes! 😂
 
#6

madtownvol

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#6
I do wish she was better at scoring, but like everyone else, I’m grateful for everything else she’s bringing.

One concern she’s going to need to work on is keeping her cool when she is face-guarded. If I were coaching against her I’d have my guards get as close to her as possible because she has shown more than just against UGA that she has low tolerance for anyone getting too close to her. Walker is lucky she only got a technical yesterday after swatting at the neck of Audrey Warren just because Warren was too close. I don’t think Warren did anything but pester the crap out of her and Walker way overreacted.

I laughed at somebody else’s comment about Warren touching her eyelashes, but it might actually BE that she’s that hyper-sensitive about her eyes. She sure as hell is willing to smack a b who gets near her eyes! 😂
I think Jordan has a bit of a Draymond Green personality. She is not taking nuthin' from no one and plays, on her good games, on the emotional edge. She is probably gonna tee'd up a few more times this season.

But she is delivering what the team needs. My take on Jordan was that it always two seasons for a player to fully recover from an ACL (and Jordan had 2 on the same knee). This season is really the first we have seen her where she is as close to 100% as she is ever going to get. Her explosiveness and lateral quickness, and somewhat related to confidence in her knee, is way up and she is getting steals and charges. She probably feels like she can score in the lane because she is beating defenders off the dribble but she just can't shoot over the rim defenders.

But she is doing less and less of that and as 36720VOL notes, she is getting the ball to our playmakers with increasing frequency and precision. She is getting the job done and if she were on another team, I suspect a few of her (and CKH's) detractors would be complaining "why can't we find a PG like Jordan Walker?"
 
#10

alexvol

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#10
I've leveled some tough criticism on JW in the past. So now I feel it is time to give her her due. Since we began SEC play JW has stepped up her game remarkably. I've noticed toughness, leadership, good passing, less shooting, and almost no "boneheaded" turnovers. She still takes uncontested 3s (good) but she now seems to have embraced being a pass-first PG. The role suits her.

Looking at her stats on a per 40-minute basis during conference games, JW is shooting 4 fewer field goals per game than she did last year but the same amount of 3-pointers. That means 4 more shots are being taken by someone like JH, RJ, or TD. She is also up one assist per 40 minutes and down almost 2 turnovers. There's 2 more shots for JH, RJ, or TD. Her steals, rebounds, and free throws are roughly the same.

Player Efficiency Rating (PER) is the best quick measure of a player's value to their team. Of course, it leaves some intangibles out but it's a nice stat to see if someone is improving. This year JW's in-conference PER is 13.7. Last season it was 11.8 and for this year's full-season it is 12.3.

Unfortunately, JP is headed in the opposite direction. For the season JP's PER is a respectable 13.6 but focus on conference play and it dives to 5.6.

2023 in-conference PER of other SEC PGs for comparison:
Myah Taylor 11.9
Zia Cooke 26.8!!! (She was 12.1 and 15.0 in the prior 2 seasons)
Annie Hayes 10.9 (for @Darth_Vol )
Alexis Morris 23.0
Samara Spencer 14.1

To get the 20+ PERs you have to put up a lot of shots, so doing her job I don't think JW can achieve that. Her job is mostly to give our other players high PERs (JH is 31.4 and RJ is 35.5, both well above their career averages). Lately, I think JW has been giving us exactly what we need at PG. What yall think?
Agree and you articulated it perfectly.
 
#11

chuckiepoo

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#11
I've leveled some tough criticism on JW in the past. So now I feel it is time to give her her due. Since we began SEC play JW has stepped up her game remarkably. I've noticed toughness, leadership, good passing, less shooting, and almost no "boneheaded" turnovers. She still takes uncontested 3s (good) but she now seems to have embraced being a pass-first PG. The role suits her.

Looking at her stats on a per 40-minute basis during conference games, JW is shooting 4 fewer field goals per game than she did last year but the same amount of 3-pointers. That means 4 more shots are being taken by someone like JH, RJ, or TD. She is also up one assist per 40 minutes and down almost 2 turnovers. There's 2 more shots for JH, RJ, or TD. Her steals, rebounds, and free throws are roughly the same.

Player Efficiency Rating (PER) is the best quick measure of a player's value to their team. Of course, it leaves some intangibles out but it's a nice stat to see if someone is improving. This year JW's in-conference PER is 13.7. Last season it was 11.8 and for this year's full-season it is 12.3.

Unfortunately, JP is headed in the opposite direction. For the season JP's PER is a respectable 13.6 but focus on conference play and it dives to 5.6.

2023 in-conference PER of other SEC PGs for comparison:
Myah Taylor 11.9
Zia Cooke 26.8!!! (She was 12.1 and 15.0 in the prior 2 seasons)
Annie Hayes 10.9 (for @Darth_Vol )
Alexis Morris 23.0
Samara Spencer 14.1

To get the 20+ PERs you have to put up a lot of shots, so doing her job I don't think JW can achieve that. Her job is mostly to give our other players high PERs (JH is 31.4 and RJ is 35.5, both well above their career averages). Lately, I think JW has been giving us exactly what we need at PG. What yall think?
I love a good deep dive into stats to tell a story. Great context added.
 
#12

Orange Maniac

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#12
I do wish she was better at scoring, but like everyone else, I’m grateful for everything else she’s bringing.

One concern she’s going to need to work on is keeping her cool when she is face-guarded. If I were coaching against her I’d have my guards get as close to her as possible because she has shown more than just against UGA that she has low tolerance for anyone getting too close to her. Walker is lucky she only got a technical yesterday after swatting at the neck of Audrey Warren just because Warren was too close. I don’t think Warren did anything but pester the crap out of her and Walker way overreacted.

I laughed at somebody else’s comment about Warren touching her eyelashes, but it might actually BE that she’s that hyper-sensitive about her eyes. She sure as hell is willing to smack a b who gets near her eyes! 😂
I thought she got raked across her face. She had a stunned look for a second then reacted. It was like she was sure they would call a foul but they didn't. It wasn't a reaction you see from someone just getting close.
 
#15

37620VOL

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#15
And "every bit as good as Annie Hayes" is -35.2... 👀
For Miles that is in 2 minutes of play. Her career SEC PER is like a 5, and I would agree that stinks, but so does Annie ... as a 17th year senior.

Go ahead stan for Annie with that 10.9. All I was inferring when I said "Hayes is no better than Miles" (if you're going to quote me at least do it accurately) was that neither are good SEC-caliber basketball players at this point. Only difference is that Miles has a few more years to prove me wrong. With Hayes "this is what she is as a player".
 
#16

Darth_Vol

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#16
For Miles that is in 2 minutes of play. Her career SEC PER is like a 5, and I would agree that stinks, but so does Annie ... as a 17th year senior.
Not according to Hayes' career PER, which you've been trumpeting as the measure for player value. I know math is hard, but her numbers are significantly higher than Miles' even this season.

Go ahead stan for Annie with that 10.9. All I was inferring when I said "Hayes is no better than Miles" (if you're going to quote me at least do it accurately) was that neither are good SEC-caliber basketball players at this point. Only difference is that Miles has a few more years to prove me wrong. With Hayes "this is what she is as a player".
No, the difference is that Hayes has actually proven she can play at an All-SEC level, and your stat cherry picking doesn't change that fact. But hey, 2 minutes in six SEC games, Miles is coming right along. Who knows... ?
 
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#17

PRG

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#17
Not according to Hayes' career PER, which you've been trumpeting as the measure for player value. I know math is hard, but her numbers are significantly higher than Miles' even this season.



No, the difference is that Hayes has actually proven she can play at an All-SEC level, and your stat cherry picking doesn't change that fact. But hey, 2 minutes in six SEC games, Miles is coming right along. Who knows... ?
I believe Annie looked at turning pro ….. but for some reason?????🤷‍♂️. Decided to play another year ! Requiring minds want to know ? 🤔
 
#18

Volfan2012

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#18
I like what Walker is doing right now. This is finally it for her this season. From here I think if we don't go out and find an elite point guard were in big trouble next season. I think Miles is a good change of pace not going to ever score much and her size limits her. Edie Darby hasn't been able to show it yet but I think she is a better shooter than Miles. I think he handle is also just as effective. I wouldn't want to go into next season with Powell, Miles, and Darby as my choices. I am not even sure that Powell will stay here next season. As a Grad she can transfer somewhere and play immediately. She hasn't fit in very well to our system thus far.
 
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#19

glv98

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#19
I am not even sure that Powell will stay here next season. As a Grad she can transfer somewhere and play immediately. She hasn't fit in very well to our system thus far.
Isn't JP a jr? Played 2 yrs at Minn? She always said 2 yrs here.

I think we're walking the plank way too early on JP. We all want to forget the first part of the season, but JP started off about where we thought she would. At least for those of us who weren't delusional about her level coming in. She stayed top 5 SEC in total assists and a/t.o. ratio until her funk the last few games, is still top 10. Not sure why the dropoff, but if anyone can fix a PG it should be KJH. I think she stays and ends up a good solid PG.

That said, those end of quarter plays/non plays are just painful. Ultimate Homer Maria asked KJH about it in no uncertain terms in last presser, said how can it keep happening? KJH looked super annoyed, made a face and in her best Holly voice said "Don't know". Said it twice. Maybe we prioritize finding out?

It's unusually lucky for this team that JW is looking like she's going to round out her career with her best stretch of play. Good for her; her guts and effort have never been questioned. She loves this program and lord knows they love her. Jordan Walker, MBA, LVFL.

P.S. Please don't shoot much. Just enough to keep the defense honest.
.
 
#20

travis929

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#20
Isn't JP a jr? Played 2 yrs at Minn? She always said 2 yrs here.

I think we're walking the plank way too early on JP. We all want to forget the first part of the season, but JP started off about where we thought she would. At least for those of us who weren't delusional about her level coming in. She stayed top 5 SEC in total assists and a/t.o. ratio until her funk the last few games, is still top 10. Not sure why the dropoff, but if anyone can fix a PG it should be KJH. I think she stays and ends up a good solid PG.
I agree. I also think it's easy to forget how big of a role Miles played on last year's team (almost 20mpg) that started out 18-1. I'm not sure if she's regressed this year or just gotten a little buried on the depth chart with Powell's arrival, but I imagine she'll have opportunities again next year. Even this year, she's 64th in the entire NCAA at free throw rate...!

While there are a lot of questions about next year's roster and how competitive they'll be, I think there are huge opportunities for Powell, Miles, and Wynn to be successful. Without taking into account any transfers (in or out), they'd primarily be surrounded by shooters (Darby, Pissott, Striplin, or even Hollingshead has a nice face-up game), so there should be more space than ever for them to create, score at the rim, draw contact and get to the free throw line, or kick out to open shooters. Whereas this year, they're usually on the floor with other players who are best when creating or taking up space in the paint.
 
#21

Volfan2012

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#21
Isn't JP a jr? Played 2 yrs at Minn? She always said 2 yrs here.

I think we're walking the plank way too early on JP. We all want to forget the first part of the season, but JP started off about where we thought she would. At least for those of us who weren't delusional about her level coming in. She stayed top 5 SEC in total assists and a/t.o. ratio until her funk the last few games, is still top 10. Not sure why the dropoff, but if anyone can fix a PG it should be KJH. I think she stays and ends up a good solid PG.

That said, those end of quarter plays/non plays are just painful. Ultimate Homer Maria asked KJH about it in no uncertain terms in last presser, said how can it keep happening? KJH looked super annoyed, made a face and in her best Holly voice said "Don't know". Said it twice. Maybe we prioritize finding out?

It's unusually lucky for this team that JW is looking like she's going to round out her career with her best stretch of play. Good for her; her guts and effort have never been questioned. She loves this program and lord knows they love her. Jordan Walker, MBA, LVFL.

P.S. Please don't shoot much. Just enough to keep the defense honest.
.
JP is a senior but because of covid had two years.
 
#22

37620VOL

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#22
Not according to Hayes' career PER, which you've been trumpeting as the measure for player value. I know math is hard, but her numbers are significantly higher than Miles' even this season.



No, the difference is that Hayes has actually proven she can play at an All-SEC level, and your stat cherry picking doesn't change that fact. But hey, 2 minutes in six SEC games, Miles is coming right along. Who knows... ?
You keep acting like I'm some sort of Miles apologist. Nothing is further from the truth.
 
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#24

djtee

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#24
How would we rate our guard play, overall, at a program (ours) that is aiming to get back to the top? I wouid rate it as average, maybe a notch
above average--but not where it needs to be for a national contender.
Tennessee guard play of Horston, Powell, Walker has been pretty good i think. True test coming up against UConn if at full strength, LSU, Ark, SC
 

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