A less costly fix and one that might work out better

#1
K

KYSkipper

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#1
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
 
#2
#2
Cutcliff was the key, neither Phil or Chief would discipline the players. Look how they dropped while Cutcliff was at ole miss and then popped back up when he returned.

Chiefs roof is as a coordinator and not head coach.
 
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#3
#3
Butch has had 5 years to upgrade his staff and gone from bad to worse especially on the offensive side. what makes you think he can ever put a winning staff together?
 
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#4
#4
KYSkipper said:
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
Click to expand...

The buyouts won't be anywhere close to $20,000,000. It's off set by their earnings in their next jobs. However paying off a new coach's buyout to his current employee could be substantial.
 
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#5
#5
KYSkipper said:
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
Click to expand...


Too late. Butch got who he wanted when we were hot. He could have got a good OC instead, he promoted from within, a guy that had no business cutting his teeth at this level. Besides that, it's Butchs offense. No one wants to work with him now, recruits don't want to play for him. Chavis ain't that great either. It's time to move on, regardless of cost.
 
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#7
#7
Any staff that includes Butch just solidifies that Tennessee is dead. If Butch is back next year, it will be the first year that I don't watch Tennessee football. I started in 1988 at 12 and would hate to stop watching.

It's not a look at me let's boycott, it's just that I don't think I have it in me anymore to watch if the University doesn't even care enough to try to improve.
 
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#9
#9
I still think they should give Butch an office for the remainder of the year (March 2018?), and give Hoke the job as interim and maybe a year contract if he can effect change in the last games. Stabilize the bleeding and them look for a new head coach if Hoke doesn't cut it.
 
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#10
#10
KYSkipper said:
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
Click to expand...

Just when I thought I hadn’t seen another dumb “Keep Butch Scenario”
 
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#11
#11
I am not saying I would go with the OP but that is pretty much the premise I would be at... trying to haul a big fish is not an easy task in today's football.

I would be calling Pelini for DC like yesterday, work from there. And a situation I would consider, even though I don't think Les is a solution - Les Miles as head coach/recruiter, Bo Pelini as associate hc/dc... hire a decent OC and move from there. See, if Bo can get it done.

The understanding is that within a few years Les would be demoted to head recruiter or similar. Way under pay Les, overpay for Pelini as DC, overpay for an OC.
 
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#12
#12
KYSkipper said:
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
Click to expand...

Money is not an issue, you only live once, bust the bank and take care of business.
 
#13
#13
A day late and a dollar short. Florida fired today and Tennessee has to follow quickly. They get a jump up on hiring the best out there would look real bad for Curry
 
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#15
#15
KYSkipper said:
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
Click to expand...

What OC in their right mind would leave a great, stable gig so they can join this sh-tshow and run Butch's F'ed up system?
 
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#16
#16
TennesseeTarheel said:
I still think they should give Butch an office for the remainder of the year (March 2018?), and give Hoke the job as interim and maybe a year contract if he can effect change in the last games. Stabilize the bleeding and them look for a new head coach if Hoke doesn't cut it.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's possible. Contractually he's either the HFC or he's not.
 
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#17
#17
KYSkipper said:
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
Click to expand...

Shoop... has had success elsewhere. Scott has had success elsewhere but not as an OC.

The problems ARE NOT THE ASSISTANTS. Scott probably would have begun to transform the O this year into a more "multiple" system with 30% or so of plays from under center. Jones disallowed it. Jones even handcuffed Scott after the UF game when his more aggressive (and risky) playcalling didn't work.

HC's aren't just recruiters. If they don't provide some kind of expertise either on O or D... they usually don't do well. Jones' "expertise" is on O.... and except when Dobbs was around to bail him out... his O has failed magnificently.

Again, Jones isn't part of the problem or a problem to be worked around. He IS the problem.
 
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#18
#18
KYSkipper said:
Firing Butch Jones is a 20 Million dollar deal. You have to buy him out, buy out his assistants, hire new at market rates to get what you want. 20 Million might not even cover it.

Phillip Fulmer's problems started when Coach Cutcliff left. The key is good coordinators and assistants. Butch hasn't had that since he's been here. It's been a constant revolving door and it's evident that Shoop can't teach them how to tackle and the Offensive guy has a major problem with the offensive line.

I think the University would be dollars ahead going to Chief and offering what's necessary to bring him back as Defensive Coordinator. Hire the best OC that can be bought and do some serious work with the position coaches. Specifically the Offensive line coach and the QB coach.

We would have Butch the Recruiter with qualified coaches to develop the talent and coach the game. We wouldn't be out 7 or 8 million trying to match Alabama for a head coach and then out of money to hire the assistants he needs.
Click to expand...


Why do people not see that the major issue IS Butch Jones? The only way forward is a change at HC.
 
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#21
#21
FWIW... what demonstrates that Jones is an exceptional recruiter? NSD rankings?

In year 5, UT does not have quality depth at LB. Does not have depth on the DL. Has yet to produce an OL that matched the talent supposedly present on the roster. Has no experience and questionable talent at WR. And apparently does not have a QB that can run the system or be trusted to run it.

Fulmer recruited with a strategy. In alternating years, he would go after the best players he could get at whatever position then in the following year he would focus on filling the gaps in that class with the best players he could get at particular positions. That's why you would see him with a top 5 class one year then somewhere between 10th and 25th the next year.

Jones has done a very poor job of filling in those "gaps".
 
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#22
#22
sjt18 said:
FWIW... what demonstrates that Jones is an exceptional recruiter? NSD rankings?

In year 5, UT does not have quality depth at LB. Does not have depth on the DL. Has yet to produce an OL that matched the talent supposedly present on the roster. Has no experience and questionable talent at WR. And apparently does not have a QB that can run the system or be trusted to run it.

Fulmer recruited with a strategy. In alternating years, he would go after the best players he could get at whatever position then in the following year he would focus on filling the gaps in that class with the best players he could get at particular positions. That's why you would see him with a top 5 class one year then somewhere between 10th and 25th the next year.

Jones has done a very poor job of filling in those "gaps".
Click to expand...

Butch recruits exceptionally well. He's bad at coaching them up and retaining his signees.
 
#23
#23
I take it most people are not happy with the staff as well. Most are going to have to be gone, this is drastically different than say what LSU did or the position they were in, a good portion of the LSU staff is still with the team. I doubt they bring in more to support him, that seems kind of silly.

If Butch is the problem, than it would seem like Butch needs to be gone. Just my take. If you are happy with some of the staff, you can retain the ones you think fit.
 
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#24
#24
sjt18 said:
FWIW... what demonstrates that Jones is an exceptional recruiter? NSD rankings?

In year 5, UT does not have quality depth at LB. Does not have depth on the DL. Has yet to produce an OL that matched the talent supposedly present on the roster. Has no experience and questionable talent at WR. And apparently does not have a QB that can run the system or be trusted to run it.

Fulmer recruited with a strategy. In alternating years, he would go after the best players he could get at whatever position then in the following year he would focus on filling the gaps in that class with the best players he could get at particular positions. That's why you would see him with a top 5 class one year then somewhere between 10th and 25th the next year.

Jones has done a very poor job of filling in those "gaps".
Click to expand...


I second this. The constant lauding of his recruiting abilities always annoyed me.
 
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#25
#25
sjt18 said:
FWIW... what demonstrates that Jones is an exceptional recruiter? NSD rankings?

In year 5, UT does not have quality depth at LB. Does not have depth on the DL. Has yet to produce an OL that matched the talent supposedly present on the roster. Has no experience and questionable talent at WR. And apparently does not have a QB that can run the system or be trusted to run it.

Fulmer recruited with a strategy. In alternating years, he would go after the best players he could get at whatever position then in the following year he would focus on filling the gaps in that class with the best players he could get at particular positions. That's why you would see him with a top 5 class one year then somewhere between 10th and 25th the next year.

Jones has done a very poor job of filling in those "gaps".
Click to expand...

In Year 5, Colton Jumper and Josh Smith have big roles. That's all you need to know about recruiting.

Butch had a lot of recruiting tailwinds (legacies, UGA/UF HC switches, increase in TN talent, # of available schollys, promise of immediate playing time). You saw last Feb. what happens when those tailwinds are removed.
 
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