A bit of sympathy from a UK fan.

#51
#51
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Imagine this. As a UK fan, with my first post... I am criticizing another UK fan.


Yes, I am an admitted UK basketball fanatic and historian. However, I also lay a claim to something known as common sense. I love Kentucky, and I so happen to love the game of college basketball. Why am I here? Because I also like and enjoy the tradition of UT sports as well. We have several UT fans that post on one of our UK boards, and I thought it a good idea to return the favor. HOWEVER, I do not come to this board to talk about UK basketball or make a "SYMPATHETIC" post which is really nothing more than a smack in the face. I come to this board to discuss UT basketball from a UT point of view, and never bring UK into the discussion. If asked, thats a different story. Knowing ones place is always important. To be respected, ( if thats what you want) the last thing you do is come and engage in arguments like this one, because it alienates you... and also affects OTHERS like myself who wish to have an intelligent conversation.

To jump onto this board (a board of one of our biggest rivals) and make a post like the OP did is quite, well... stupid. Take the last 3 years into play, and we are on the bottom of that arguement. Sure, the last game made somewhat of a statement.. but there is still such a long way to go. The OP basically could have said the same thing by saying the following:

" I'm sorry that your so Mediocre compared to us UT. We kinda/sorta know what it feels like to lose, but not really. I feel so sorry for you."


As for all of the UT fans reading this, I hope in the future not so many from the short bus finds the way to the internet. As expected, I welcome your insults... and your comments. Happy Posting.


P.S. thank you for beating Darrin Horn and the Gamecocks. I hate that guy. :hi:
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Welcome aboard. It's always good to get another perspective on things. Opposing fans with something to contribute are always welcome.
 
#52
#52
Thanks for all of your welcome guys. Appreciate the mutual respect. And I know Brian McCat from the WCN Kentucky Board. He is a knowledgeable and respectable guy, always insightful posts. I look forward to other discussions with you folks. Here's to future battles against each other, and both teams going deep in the tourney.
 
#53
#53
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Imagine this. As a UK fan, with my first post... I am criticizing another UK fan.


Yes, I am an admitted UK basketball fanatic and historian. However, I also lay a claim to something known as common sense. I love Kentucky, and I so happen to love the game of college basketball. Why am I here? Because I also like and enjoy the tradition of UT sports as well. We have several UT fans that post on one of our UK boards, and I thought it a good idea to return the favor. HOWEVER, I do not come to this board to talk about UK basketball or make a "SYMPATHETIC" post which is really nothing more than a smack in the face. I come to this board to discuss UT basketball from a UT point of view, and never bring UK into the discussion. If asked, thats a different story. Knowing ones place is always important. To be respected, ( if thats what you want) the last thing you do is come and engage in arguments like this one, because it alienates you... and also affects OTHERS like myself who wish to have an intelligent conversation.

To jump onto this board (a board of one of our biggest rivals) and make a post like the OP did is quite, well... stupid. Take the last 3 years into play, and we are on the bottom of that arguement. Sure, the last game made somewhat of a statement.. but there is still such a long way to go. The OP basically could have said the same thing by saying the following:

" I'm sorry that your so Mediocre compared to us UT. We kinda/sorta know what it feels like to lose, but not really. I feel so sorry for you."


As for all of the UT fans reading this, I hope in the future not so many from the short bus finds the way to the internet. As expected, I welcome your insults... and your comments. Happy Posting.


P.S. thank you for beating Darrin Horn and the Gamecocks. I hate that guy. :hi:
Click to expand...


:good!:
 
#56
#56
I went to school with Darin Horn as well. Knew him then...knew him at Marquette and have known him his entire coaching career.

He is nice to those who are useful. I've heard lots of stories of him being an ass, but he is nice to me.

I'll not cast a vote but I can say Hardwood is not the only person to share those views.

mm
 
#57
#57
Hardwood_fanatic said:
I live in Bowling Green KY, where he coached at Western Kentucky University (of which I am an alumni). And as you recall, he just left Western for SC. I know the guy personally, and without elaborating with extensive detail and cursing... I cannot begin to paint the picture on what an A**hole this guy is. The AD and board of Regents had already determined that he was gone after this season. The sweet sixteen run saved him, and got him a new job.

The awards banquet for his former players, all of which he recruited (including NBA player courtney Lee).. he did not bother showing up for. He is a first class snob, and left a bad taste in this communities mouth. I can go on and on with personal stories and instances, should you be interested.

Not to mention he felt the need to take a stab at UK and BCG concerning coaches recruitment of High school Underclassmen at the SEC media days. Just a general dislike.
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I currently live in Bowling Green and am a Western grad, I have found that most people were upset that he left, but most are optimistic about the future of the program at WKU without the bitterness
 
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#58
#58
Bassmanbruno said:
:hi:

Atleast we have a non-troll UK fan on here now. (well Brian McCat is one but doesn't post often)
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not often? Only 2,200+ posts since 2005- about 2 posts a day. That ain't LawGator status, but you know... :)
 
#59
#59
The Horn conversation is interesting. I was a student at WKU same time as Horn, and I had occasion to see him several times. Never picked that up. Of course, people go sideways. It happens.
 
#60
#60
Marc Maggard said:
I went to school with Darin Horn as well. Knew him then...knew him at Marquette and have known him his entire coaching career.

He is nice to those who are useful. I've heard lots of stories of him being an ass, but he is nice to me.

I'll not cast a vote but I can say Hardwood is not the only person to share those views.

mm
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This I think also paints part of the picture on Horn. To those that ARE useful, he is apparently nice. But to Janitors, educators, students, even common retail clerks (example: Pro-shop employee's) the guy is unbelievably horrible!

Anyone seen the movie Tin Cup? lol Where they all say David hates young people and dogs OFF the camera? Sort of the same situation here. There are those on both sides of the fence, and I'm sure both sets are right to certain degrees. All I know is what I have witnessed personally, and that can't be disputed in my mind.
 
#61
#61
lujacha said:
I currently live in Bowling Green and am a Western grad, I have found that most people were upset that he left, but most are optimistic about the future of the program at WKU without the bitterness
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Definately. McDonald has a good past and seemingly a bright future. And his recruiting efforts at Western are pretty good, to say the least. As for the bitterness, there is still alot of it in the community unfortunately. Bowling Green is getting bigger, but its still has that small town community atmosphere.... and there will always be some of it around.
 
#62
#62
It's really hard to blame Horn for moving on to the SC job.
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#63
#63
BigPapaVol said:
It's really hard to blame Horn for moving on to the SC job.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Agreed. Its a power conference ( At least by association... if not literally). Bigger stage, bigger budget, bigger team. I think if things were peachy between him and the school (and community), then it would have been no big deal. Its a fact of life that WKU is only a pit stop on the road that is college coaching. You build yourself a name, and you move on. Haskins, Felton, ect.

FWIW, I did hear that Western matched the salary offer from SC. But weighing the two options, its not hard to see which is the more high profile.
 
#65
#65
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Agreed. Its a power conference ( At least by association... if not literally). Bigger stage, bigger budget, bigger team. I think if things were peachy between him and the school (and community), then it would have been no big deal. Its a fact of life that WKU is only a pit stop on the road that is college coaching. You build yourself a name, and you move on. Haskins, Felton, ect.

FWIW, I did hear that Western matched the salary offer from SC. But weighing the two options, its not hard to see which is the more high profile.
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Why would WKU match the high salary if they were planning on getting rid of him like you claimed?

mm
 
#66
#66
UK fan in MI said:
Nope, UT still would have lost, it would have only been by 2 though.
the problem is UT plays streetball, it's that simple.
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Streetball? Delusional UK fan!!
Tennessee has perhaps the best Team leader in the nation in Tyler Smith. They have a close-knot supporting cast with the remaining players, freshman or not. They are a very unselfish team. Tennessee's problem is lack of defense and a couple of lazy players.

Streetball can be defined as a team with with no identity aside from its one (perhaps two) star players. A team that depends solely on the efforts of one or two players while the rest fill in space. Streetball is word reserved for players who want nothing more than to look spectacular whether their team wins or loses. Sound familiar???

Before you begin trolling, learn a thing or two about basketball. The vast majority of posters on here actually enjoy a decent conversation from classy fans of other teams.

You sir, do not fall into that category.
 
#67
#67
PandamoniumReigns said:
Streetball? Delusional UK fan!!
Tennessee has perhaps the best Team leader in the nation in Tyler Smith. They have a close-knot supporting cast with the remaining players, freshman or not. They are a very unselfish team. Tennessee's problem is lack of defense and a couple of lazy players.

Streetball can be defined as a team with with no identity aside from its one (perhaps two) star players. A team that depends solely on the efforts of one or two players while the rest fill in space. Streetball is word reserved for players who want nothing more than to look spectacular whether their team wins or loses. Sound familiar???

Before you begin trolling, learn a thing or two about basketball. The vast majority of posters on here actually enjoy a decent conversation from classy fans of other teams.

You sir, do not fall into that category.
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UT doesn't play "streetball" and any smart fan would not say that....

However, I don't think Tyler Smith is nearly the great leader you claim he is. Good leadership would not allow any player to be lazy at any point. Smith is a great player, but I don't think he's a great leader.....great players aren't always great leaders.

mm
 
#68
#68
Marc Maggard said:
UT doesn't play "streetball" and any smart fan would not say that....

However, I don't think Tyler Smith is nearly the great leader you claim he is. Good leadership would not allow any player to be lazy at any point. Smith is a great player, but I don't think he's a great leader.....great players aren't always great leaders.

mm
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Then let me rephrase - Tyler is perhaps the most valuable player to his team than any team in the nation. (previously stated by HatVol)

However, it has been noted that Tyler dragged Scotty Hopson into a one on one conversation and told him to start playing like the All American he should be and start living up to the hype, instead of being a waste of space. Next game - Hopson has career high in points and shows a more aggressive attitude. So, by your definition, Tyler may not be a great leader, But he is a damned good leader of a semi-young team!
 
#70
#70
PandamoniumReigns said:
Then let me rephrase - Tyler is perhaps the most valuable player to his team than any team in the nation.
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He's certainly a vital cog, but I think Harden fits that bill a bit more, and Curry. Cases could be made for Harangody, Brockman, Griffin, Teague, and Meeks as well.

Tyler's good, but most valuable to his team is an exaggeration.
 
#71
#71
lidderer said:
He's certainly a vital cog, but I think Harden fits that bill a bit more, and Curry. Cases could be made for Harangody, Brockman, Griffin, Teague, and Meeks as well.

Tyler's good, but most valuable to his team is an exaggeration.
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Meeks?

Curry has to top the list, but Tyler's close. He provides so many things to this team.
 
#72
#72
PandamoniumReigns said:
Streetball? Delusional UK fan!!
Tennessee has perhaps the best Team leader in the nation in Tyler Smith. They have a close-knot supporting cast with the remaining players, freshman or not. They are a very unselfish team. Tennessee's problem is lack of defense and a couple of lazy players.

Streetball can be defined as a team with with no identity aside from its one (perhaps two) star players. A team that depends solely on the efforts of one or two players while the rest fill in space. Streetball is word reserved for players who want nothing more than to look spectacular whether their team wins or loses. Sound familiar???

Before you begin trolling, learn a thing or two about basketball. The vast majority of posters on here actually enjoy a decent conversation from classy fans of other teams.

You sir, do not fall into that category.
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You are going to disagree with me no matter what I say but I'm going to say it anyway.
Just because Tyler is a good player doesn't make him a leader, and even if he was a leader, that doesn't mean your team doesn't play streetball. I see very few executed set plays, I see a ball getting tossed around the horn a couple times and guys launching threes that shouldn't be, there is absolutely zero patience with this team. You say they have a lack of defense??? That's Tennessee's signature, they have a great defense, it needs some refining but it's better than most in the country when they put forth the effort. They get lots of deflections and turnovers on inbounds plays. I'm saying their halfcourt offense is terrible, don't pay to much attention to last nights game, Vanderbilt is terrible, I thought they would be better than that on their home court. UT has some players that have not bought into they system, if there even is one, if they would stop launching threes and set some screens for a guy to take the ball inside good things will happen.
 
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#73
#73
BigPapaVol said:
Meeks?

Curry has to top the list, but Tyler's close. He provides so many things to this team.
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I think harden is number 1 by a mile, but you might be right: where would davidson be at all without curry? Although ASU with pendergraph and w/o harden was like 8-22 in 06', so maybe it's closer than I imagine.

I know it seems strange to think of Meeks as being high up on such a list, and perhaps it's too early to call him as on-par with those players in terms of value, but lately it seems like he has that kind of potential.

Perhaps I should have said he has the potential, rather than implying he already deserves that kind of acclaim.
 
#74
#74
PandamoniumReigns said:
Then let me rephrase - Tyler is perhaps the most valuable player to his team than any team in the nation. (previously stated by HatVol)

However, it has been noted that Tyler dragged Scotty Hopson into a one on one conversation and told him to start playing like the All American he should be and start living up to the hype, instead of being a waste of space. Next game - Hopson has career high in points and shows a more aggressive attitude. So, by your definition, Tyler may not be a great leader, But he is a damned good leader of a semi-young team!
Click to expand...


Tyler is valuable to his team yes, but to say that Tyler is more valuable to his team than any other player on any other team in the country is just ludicrous. Without Blake Griffin where would Oklahoma be? Without Harangody where would ND be? Without Stephon Curry, where would Davidson be? UT has good talent at every position, they have underachieved to this point, Hopson looks great when he takes the ball to the rack, why he is outside shooting rainbows is a mystery.
 
#75
#75
I think most people outside of UK or UT would absolutely say that Meeks is more valuable to his team than Smith is to UT.

It has little to do with Tyler's skill, but more to do with role.

In Meeks favor

Meeks takes 35% of UK's shots / Tyler is at 25%
Meeks plays 83% of game / Tyler plays 77.8%
29% of UK's plays end in a positive play by Meeks / Tyler end 26%
Meeks ranks 110th in nation in offensive efficiency / Tyler is 227th (how good team is when you are on court)
Meeks effective FG% is 59% (adjusted for 3's) / Tyler's is 49%
Meeks shoots 90% from the line / Tyler shoots 75%
Meeks shoots nearly 53% from 2 / Tyler is at 50%
Meeks shoots 44% from 3 / Tyler is at just under 27%
Meeks scores 1.56 points per shot / Tyler scores 1.42 per shot
Meeks averages nearly 26 ppg (4th in nation) / Tyler is nearly 18 (68th in nation)
Meeks averages 1.5 steals pg / Tyler is at .8 pg


In Tyler's favor

Tyler gets 6% of offensive boards and 13.5% of defensive boards / Meeks gets 2.5% and 9% (not bad for a 2g)
Tyler gets twice as many available assists as Meeks does
Tyler turns the ball over 15% of the time he's on the court / Meeks is at 17%
Tyler draws 6.7 fouls per 40min / Meeks draws 6.2 per 40


Both players are great players and important to their teams, but the numbers suggest that outsiders would say Meeks is more important to UK than Tyler is to UT.

I'm not sure I'd want to have a player be 'more important" to my team....is often an indicator of lesser talent around the player.

mm
 
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