6 schools to be notified of serious NCAA violations

#51

BowlBrother85

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#51
I don't know. The fact that LSU reinstated Wade tells me they aren't expecting much. I suppose anything is possible.
...and Ole Miss would have kept Freeze around if he hadn't been exposed for calling escorts. I don't think they know what to expect... and will stick with him as long as they can. Whether they fire him or not, LSU will be placed on probation. It's just a question of whether or not there will be a post-season ban. I think there will be.
 
#52

bamawriter

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#52
...and Ole Miss would have kept Freeze around if he hadn't been exposed for calling escorts. I don't think they know what to expect... and will stick with him as long as they can. Whether they fire him or not, LSU will be placed on probation. It's just a question of whether or not there will be a post-season ban. I think there will be.
They didn't can Freeze because he was calling escorts. That was a convenient excuse that also allowed them to throw a scapegoat in front of the NCAA. You may be right, and Wade may wind up getting tossed later, but the fact that they suspended him and brought him back suggests otherwise.
 
#53

BowlBrother85

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#53
They didn't can Freeze because he was calling escorts. That was a convenient excuse that also allowed them to throw a scapegoat in front of the NCAA. You may be right, and Wade may wind up getting tossed later, but the fact that they suspended him and brought him back suggests otherwise.
You are off base on this. It doesn't matter if LSU fires Will Wade or not. The NCAA Committee on Infractions only cares whether or not that is Will Wade's voice on an FBI wiretap discussing a "strong-a$$ offer" for Jevonte Smart and "rookie minimums".
 
#54

bamawriter

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#54
You are off base on this. It doesn't matter if LSU fires Will Wade or not. The NCAA Committee on Infractions only cares whether or not that is Will Wade's voice on an FBI wiretap discussing a "strong-a$$ offer" for Jevonte Smart and "rookie minimums".
Will Wade's reinstatement matters to the extent that it clearly displays LSU's belief that very little is going to come of the NCAA's investigation. I'm not suggesting that they are correct in this belief.

They suspended him, dug into the matter, and chose to reinstate him when they could have fired him for cause. There's risk in make that decision. But they obviously think the risk isn't too great.
 
#55

BowlBrother85

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#55
Will Wade's reinstatement matters to the extent that it clearly displays LSU's belief that very little is going to come of the NCAA's investigation. I'm not suggesting that they are correct in this belief.

They suspended him, dug into the matter, and chose to reinstate him when they could have fired him for cause. There's risk in make that decision. But they obviously think the risk isn't too great.
LSU had nothing to lose by reinstating him. The season was over. LSU can still fire him for cause after the NCAA's ruling is handed down. This is a rare case where a 3rd party has performed the NCAA's legwork for them. This is a very simple case... it's either Will Wade's voice on the wiretap, discussing an offer for Jevonte Smart, or it's not. There is no room on that transcript for misinterpretation. LSU's only defense is to say that it's not his voice, which would be to accuse the FBI of tampering with evidence...it won't fly. LSU can try to claim that no money actually changed hands, but Wade's offer itself, is still an NCAA violation and he is the face of the program. I understand the cynicism of the NCAA's Committee on Infractions, but this is a unique situation. There is no way that LSU is skating on this.
 
#57

BowlBrother85

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#57
you think he didnt get paid to go there ? take off the horse blinders
Are we talking about the same thing? I'm saying that has nothing to do with how the NCAA's Committee on Infractions is going to sanction LSU over the content of the FBI wiretap. Those of you who think they are going to skate with nothing, are misreading this situation. This involves an illegal inducement made by a head coach on an FBI wiretap. This isn't academic fraud or a situation where you have to find a paper trail... the evidence is on a law enforcement recording and it's damning.
 
#58

bamawriter

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#58
LSU had nothing to lose by reinstating him.
While I'm on the fence about most of this, I have to completely disagree with you there. Reinstating Wade could be interpreted by the NCAA as a lack of institutional control. It's one thing if they'd fired him on the spot, or at the very least kept him suspended until the NCAA gave some kind of final word. But they suspended him because they had reason to believe that something had happened. And by not only reinstating Wade, but then firing the guy (Alleva) that suspended him in the first place, they've made it clear that they don't think there's a problem. If the NCAA disagrees with that conclusion, LSU just dug in to the point that they dug their own grave.
 
#59

BowlBrother85

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#59
While I'm on the fence about most of this, I have to completely disagree with you there. Reinstating Wade could be interpreted by the NCAA as a lack of institutional control. It's one thing if they'd fired him on the spot, or at the very least kept him suspended until the NCAA gave some kind of final word. But they suspended him because they had reason to believe that something had happened. And by not only reinstating Wade, but then firing the guy (Alleva) that suspended him in the first place, they've made it clear that they don't think there's a problem. If the NCAA disagrees with that conclusion, LSU just dug in to the point that they dug their own grave.
Wade did not cooperate with the LSU investigation. He refused to answer questions from internal investigators. The reality is, the LSU administration doesn't know what happened. You are reading way too much into that. There was not a good way for LSU to play this. Firing Wade immediately, could have been interpreted as an admission of guilt... they have determined that their best course of action is to pretend that Wade did nothing wrong... even if that means pretending an audio recording by a law enforcement agency doesn't exist.... but it does. There is no way that LSU is getting off with nothing here... and I expect a show-cause penalty for Wade.
 
#60

bamawriter

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#60
There was not a good way for LSU to play this. Firing Wade immediately, could have been interpreted as an admission of guilt...
Again, I disagree. Firing him gives them an out. This is not a Hugh Freeze situation where they ignored obvious warning signs, and even kept up the dirty tactics while the NCAA was actively investigating. The wiretap was the first serious claim against Wade. If they'd fired him then they'd skate by relatively unscathed. It may be seen as an admission of guilt, but it would be Wade's guilt and not LSU's.

they have determined that their best course of action is to pretend that Wade did nothing wrong... even if that means pretending an audio recording by a law enforcement agency doesn't exist.... but it does. There is no way that LSU is getting off with nothing here... and I expect a show-cause penalty for Wade.
I don't think LSU is that stupid, though I've been wrong before. The NCAA has shown time and time again that the only thing worse than committing an infraction is stonewalling an investigation. By reinstating Wade after he'd actively refused to talk to anyone LSU would be setting themselves up for disaster.

You may be right about all of this. But I've seen this movie many times. I'll believe that LSU is getting slammed if and when it actually happens.
 
#61

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#61
LSU had nothing to lose by reinstating him.
They have a ton to lose if the 'AA can determine that they knew of something he was doing and reinstated him anyway. I'm with BW on this, LSU reinstating him makes any reasonable person believe that LSU is very confident that the 'AA isnt looking at them.
 
#62

BowlBrother85

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#62
They have a ton to lose if the 'AA can determine that they knew of something he was doing and reinstated him anyway. I'm with BW on this, LSU reinstating him makes any reasonable person believe that LSU is very confident that the 'AA isnt looking at them.
That is just wrong. Like I said, they didn't have a good play here. Their coach wasn't cooperating with their internal investigation and firing him immediately could have been interpreted as an admission of guilt... and give me a break with that "AA isn't looking at them" nonsense. That FBI wiretap with the words of their coach "strong-a$$ offer" hasn't disappeared. Any reasonable person isn't dumb enough to actually believe that LSU is going to skate. They are definitely one of the 6 schools about to receive notice of serious allegations from the NCAA.
 
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#63

BearCat204

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#63
That is just wrong. Like I said, they didn't have a good play here. Their coach wasn't cooperating with their internal investigation and firing him immediately could have been interpreted as an admission of guilt... and give me a break with that "AA isn't looking at them" nonsense. That FBI wiretap with the words of their coach "strong-a$$ offer" hasn't disappeared. Any reasonable person isn't dumb enough to actually believe that LSU is going to skate. They are definitely one of the 6 schools about to receive notice of serious allegations from the NCAA.
Nothing about it is wrong scooter.
 
#64

bamawriter

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#64
That is just wrong. Like I said, they didn't have a good play here. Their coach wasn't cooperating with their internal investigation and firing him immediately could have been interpreted as an admission of guilt... and give me a break with that "AA isn't looking at them" nonsense. That FBI wiretap with the words of their coach "strong-a$$ offer" hasn't disappeared. Any reasonable person isn't dumb enough to actually believe that LSU is going to skate.
Your position doesn't make much sense to me. If LSU is going to get popped because of what Wade did, then it's counterituitive to say "they didn't have a good play." Reinstating Wade makes the situation exponentially worse.

Let's assume the worst case scenarios:

LSU never reinstates Wade = Smart is declared ineligible, they vacate the games he played in, Wade is given a show-cause (which doesn't affect LSU anymore, since they'll have already hired a new coach), LSU gets hit with some recruiting restrictions and possibly lose 2-4 schollies, along with brief probation

LSU reinstates Wade = Smart is declared ineligible, they vacate the games he played in, Wade is given a show-cause (which does affect LSU, as they now have to hire a new coach while under the weight of massive sanctions), LSU gets hit with LOIC, resulting in massive recruiting restrictions and undoubtedly lose 5+ scholarships, long probation, multi-year postseason ban
 
#66

bamawriter

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#66
You just said that the "AA isn't looking at them".... If you honestly believe they aren't one of the schools that is about to receive a notice of serious allegations from the NCAA then you are dead wrong.... and I would put money on it.
There isn't any question the NCAA is looking. LSU knows they are. The question is whether or not LSU thinks they'll do anything.
 
#67

BowlBrother85

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#67
You're position doesn't make much sense to me. If LSU is going to get popped because of what Wade did, then it's counterituitive to say "they didn't have a good play." Reinstating Wade makes the situation exponentially worse.

Let's assume the worst case scenarios:

LSU never reinstates Wade = Smart is declared ineligible, they vacate the games he played in, Wade is given a show-cause (which doesn't affect LSU anymore, since they'll have already hired a new coach), LSU gets hit with some recruiting restrictions and possibly lose 2-4 schollies, along with brief probation

LSU reinstates Wade = Smart is declared ineligible, they vacate the games he played in, Wade is given a show-cause (which does affect LSU, as they now have to hire a new coach while under the weight of massive sanctions), LSU gets hit with LOIC, resulting in massive recruiting restrictions and undoubtedly lose 5+ scholarships, long probation, multi-year postseason ban
An entity caught on tape committing a major violation does not have a good play.... there are only ways of mitigating the damage. They are making a calculation that a full and unqualified denial ... even in the face of a recording will outlast the NCAA's resolve. But the audio recording isn't going away. There just isn't much to investigate. Wade was caught cheating...
 
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#69

BowlBrother85

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#69
There isn't any question the NCAA is looking. LSU knows they are. The question is whether or not LSU thinks they'll do anything.
We will see what happens. I stand by what I have said. That recording isn't going away and there is not a positive way to spin what Wade said in that transcript. Even if it is LSU's contention that money never changed hands... Wade, by his own stupid words (strong ass offer), still made an offer of inducement, and that is a major violation. There is no paper trail to uncover... only a recording to listen to and it speaks for itself. I think the NCAA is weak and feckless as well, but they're not that weak and feckless.
 
#70

bamawriter

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#70
An entity caught on tape does not have a good play.... there are only ways of mitigating the damage. Their strategy is to deny, deny, deny... even in the face of a recording and insist that Wade did nothing wrong and see what happens.
Except that's not even attempting to mitigate damage. You don't "deny, deny, deny" and "see what happens" unless you anticipate nothing happening. There may be "no good play" but there are certainly plays that are worse than others. If you think there is anything more than a minuscule possibility that the NCAA is going to hit you with sanctions, digging in is the absolute worst of all possible plays.
 
#71

BowlBrother85

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#71
Except that's not even attempting to mitigate damage. You don't "deny, deny, deny" and "see what happens" unless you anticipate nothing happening. There may be "no good play" but there are certainly plays that are worse than others. If you think there is anything more than a minuscule possibility that the NCAA is going to hit you with sanctions, digging in is the absolute worst of all possible plays.
No, it's not... see Miami football with the Nevin Shapiro scandal. There are plenty of examples of how digging in, even when guilt seems obvious, has worked out for a school. The NCAA has been known to blow some layups. LSU is making a calculation... however, since Will Wade refused to answer any of their questions during an internal investigation, there is no reason to believe that the LSU administration has any special knowledge of his innocence. He wouldn't even deny his guilt to Alleva. As I keep saying, that recording isn't going away.
 
#72

bamawriter

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#72
No, it's not... see Miami football with the Nevin Shapiro scandal. There are plenty of examples of how digging in, even when guilt seems obvious, has worked out for a school.
Miami didn't pull a USC or Ole Miss in that situation. The NCAA simply f***ed up.

The NCAA has been known to blow some layups. LSU is making a calculation...
Yep.

however, since Will Wade refused to answer any of their questions during an internal investigation, there is no reason to believe that the LSU administration has any special knowledge of his innocence. He wouldn't even deny his guilt to Alleva. As I keep saying, that recording isn't going away.
Here's the issue: what does the recording prove? Wade said he made an offer. Great. Did he? Can the NCAA prove that he did? Do they want to do so?
 
#75

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#75
They have a ton to lose if the 'AA can determine that they knew of something he was doing and reinstated him anyway. I'm with BW on this, LSU reinstating him makes any reasonable person believe that LSU is very confident that the 'AA isnt looking at them.
You said this... and there is no way that LSU thinks that the NCAA is looking at them.
 

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