4th Down Spot

#1
JRich

JRich

Coach Bronn
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#1
After an eventful Saturday night, it appears Vol Nation is split on a couple of topics. Surprisingly the spot on 4th down is one of them. Many feel he was short others think he made it. I don’t believe that being short of the line to gain was the issue that caused the fans to express their frustration, it was the way it was done. Upon review, it is clear that Warren dove and was parallel to the ground when he went down. His knee hitting at the 41 and the ball held in his left hand around the numbers. There is a lot of space between the knee and the numbers. The ball was spotted at the 41 where his knee touched by a side judge nearly 20 yards away. The ball should have been closer to the 40. If the ball is spotted correctly, and they measure and are still short, the fans don’t lose it.
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This spot was the straw that broke the camels back after the TD being taken away, the many ignored holding calls on Ole Miss (especially the center hugging up the LB on Corral’s runs), the weak holding call on UT that made it 4th and long, and the many generous spots given to Ole Miss and first downs given on close spots without measuring.

This could just be my view as a fan and I can’t support it, but it seemed that the refs would get confused and allow Kiffin to “discuss” events only when UT was on offense, slowing the game down.

I don’t feel like it is fair as just a fan to speculate on players faking injuries, as UT had several players go down as well. I hope that doesn’t happen, but I am not too naive to think that it couldn’t.

Go Vols!!!
 
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#3
#3
dcibrando said:
Unfortunately he was a tick short because the ball was in his left hand not the right shown across the line in the photo. Spot was still big but I dont think we got the first.

If we didn’t get 2 penalties to back us up before that it wouldn’t be an issue
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We got those 2 penalties after we gashed them for 20+ yds and they got their 30th free timeout off an "injury"
 
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#4
#4
JRich said:
After an eventful Saturday night, it appears Vol Nation is split on a couple of topics. Surprisingly the spot on 4th down is one of them. Many feel he was short others think he made it. I don’t believe that being short of the line to gain was the issue that caused the fans to express their frustration, it was the way it was done. Upon review, it is clear that Warren dove and was parallel to the ground when he went down. His knee hitting at the 41 and the ball held in his left hand around the numbers. There is a lot of space between the knee and the numbers. The ball was spotted at the 41 where his knee touched by a side judge nearly 20 yards away. The ball should have been closer to the 40. If the ball is spotted correctly, and they measure and are still short, the fans don’t lose it.
View attachment 403842
This spot was the straw that broke the camels back after the TD being taken away, the many ignored holding calls on Ole Miss (especially the center hugging up the LB on Corral’s runs), the weak holding call on UT that made it 4th and long, and the many generous spots given to Ole Miss and first downs given on close spots without measuring.

This could just be my view as a fan and I can’t support it, but it seemed that the refs would get confused and allow Kiffin to “discuss” events only when UT was on offense, slowing the game down.

I don’t feel like it is fair as just a fan to speculate on players faking injuries, as UT had several players go down as well. I hope that doesn’t happen, but I am not too naive to think that it couldn’t.

Go Vols!!!
Click to expand...
I had more issues with the Strip sack fumble for a TD that got called back more than I did with the spot.
 
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#5
#5
dcibrando said:
Unfortunately he was a tick short because the ball was in his left hand not the right shown across the line in the photo. Spot was still big but I dont think we got the first.

If we didn’t get 2 penalties to back us up before that it wouldn’t be an issue
Click to expand...
Agreed, but a tick short doesn’t make the fans lose it, but a full yard even after review is laughable.
 
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#9
#9
JRich said:
Ridiculous call to bring that back.
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I haven't seen this discussed much, but I think one thing that created such an outrage was the decision NOT to even respot the ball. Now, I believe almost everyone surely recognizes that whether he made the "line to gain" or not, the damned spot was clearly wrong. Had they attempted to actually respot the ball closer to a representative point, and then measure with the stick to display that it was short, I honestly think there may not have been the eruption. The choice to simply say "looks good where we initially placed it" was so not correct that it angered folks. Those that chose to throw things were completely wrong, but I can see why there was frustration.
 
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#10
#10
VolMarine1371 said:
I had more issues with the Strip sack fumble for a TD that got called back more than I did with the spot.
Click to expand...
Exactly. We got the ball back after "the spot" and had the ball in a receiver's hands in the endzone

Heads should roll over the strip/sack fiasco
 
#12
#12
JRich said:
After an eventful Saturday night, it appears Vol Nation is split on a couple of topics. Surprisingly the spot on 4th down is one of them. Many feel he was short others think he made it. I don’t believe that being short of the line to gain was the issue that caused the fans to express their frustration, it was the way it was done. Upon review, it is clear that Warren dove and was parallel to the ground when he went down. His knee hitting at the 41 and the ball held in his left hand around the numbers. There is a lot of space between the knee and the numbers. The ball was spotted at the 41 where his knee touched by a side judge nearly 20 yards away. The ball should have been closer to the 40. If the ball is spotted correctly, and they measure and are still short, the fans don’t lose it.
View attachment 403842
This spot was the straw that broke the camels back after the TD being taken away, the many ignored holding calls on Ole Miss (especially the center hugging up the LB on Corral’s runs), the weak holding call on UT that made it 4th and long, and the many generous spots given to Ole Miss and first downs given on close spots without measuring.

This could just be my view as a fan and I can’t support it, but it seemed that the refs would get confused and allow Kiffin to “discuss” events only when UT was on offense, slowing the game down.

I don’t feel like it is fair as just a fan to speculate on players faking injuries, as UT had several players go down as well. I hope that doesn’t happen, but I am not too naive to think that it couldn’t.

Go Vols!!!
Click to expand...

I still shot does not tell the story. The spot has to come with where the ball was when is leg/arm/ whatever FIRST came in contact with the ground. As bad as I wanted it to be a first down, the ball did not cross the line to gain til he was down.
 
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#13
#13
dcibrando said:
Unfortunately he was a tick short because the ball was in his left hand not the right shown across the line in the photo. Spot was still big but I dont think we got the first.

If we didn’t get 2 penalties to back us up before that it wouldn’t be an issue
Click to expand...
Yes, I haven't seen discussion concerning the set of downs that led up to the 4th and long predicament that led to the play. I think I remember a sack of Hooker and a couple of plays that netted little of nothing. Does anyone remember? I know that we inexplicably ran Small several times when there just weren't any holes for him to run through and Small can't make anything without a substantial opening to get him started. It almost seemed like they didn't want to throw on OM, which I found baffling.
 
#14
#14
Screw the spot, that fumble touchdown called back is what makes me angry. Oh well...the could be's and should be's. Beat Bama!
 
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#15
#15
savannahfan said:
I still shot does not tell the story. The spot has to come with where the ball was when is leg/arm/ whatever FIRST came in contact with the ground. As bad as I wanted it to be a first down, the ball did not cross the line to gain til he was down.
Click to expand...
Sure, but I don’t think you read my post. It wasn’t that he was short, it was the spot. The ball was closer to the 40 than the 41 and a proper spot, even if short of the first, the fans don’t lose their minds. The point of the still is that the ref who’s spot they went with was 20 yards away when he went down and had no view of the ball.
 
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#16
#16
savannahfan said:
I still shot does not tell the story. The spot has to come with where the ball was when is leg/arm/ whatever FIRST came in contact with the ground. As bad as I wanted it to be a first down, the ball did not cross the line to gain til he was down.
Click to expand...
Missing the point here I fear. Posters point is the WAY it was summarily done without a legit respot. No way was the original spot correct. On that I believe nearly all agree. Still does not justify what a tiny number of students/fans did. But it explains frustration.
 
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#17
#17
dcibrando said:
Unfortunately he was a tick short because the ball was in his left hand not the right shown across the line in the photo. Spot was still big but I dont think we got the first.

If we didn’t get 2 penalties to back us up before that it wouldn’t be an issue
Click to expand...

Nm
 
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#18
#18
He’s short. He’s not short.
Either way you have a ref 20 yards behind the play marking the spot. Think about that. 20 Yards behind saying yep-ball goes here.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Bama, Georgia, Florida would all have gotten the spot. Full stop. As bad as that crew was last night, if Tillman had caught that pass in the end zone, there’s a greater than 50% chance a flag gets thrown and I truly do believe that
 
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#19
#19
The crooked ass refs took that win from us plain and simple we got some Sankey apologists on here for sure and it’s sickening. What kind of Tennessee fans are you guys? Your like a dog that’s been beaten so long you just take your next beating or in this case screwing without any resistance at all. Weak as shat fans
 
#20
#20
dcibrando said:
Unfortunately he was a tick short because the ball was in his left hand not the right shown across the line in the photo. Spot was still big but I dont think we got the first.

If we didn’t get 2 penalties to back us up before that it wouldn’t be an issue
Click to expand...
Inexact science is inexact - human error factors in especially when an official is that far away and basically guessing what transpired before he got there. I can't say that he got there just as you can't say that he was a little short. The best measure may be the one produced on tv with the artificial first down drawn in yellow and that appeared to show that he had crossed the line. The op was correct - that sideline judge seems to provide spots favorable to Ole Miss throughout the game. The touchdown that wasn't a touchdown I still have no answer for.
 
#21
#21
It’s a guarantee we will get screwed on a few calls Saturday night too. And we will be told to shut up and take it.
 
#22
#22
I didn't like the ref that was all chummy and smiling with the Ole Miss lineman during the safety. The other refs were discussing the play while one was all friendly with the lineman.
 
#23
#23
savannahfan said:
I still shot does not tell the story. The spot has to come with where the ball was when is leg/arm/ whatever FIRST came in contact with the ground. As bad as I wanted it to be a first down, the ball did not cross the line to gain til he was down.
Click to expand...
He careened off of the defender after the catch - and then dove - unless someone has blown it up and run it in slow mo - don't think you can tell. I think an argument can be made that he did make the first down and I agree that the ball was in his left arm. Still think it was a bad spot. I believe it was also first spotted as a first down. Then moved back considerably.
 
#24
#24
In addition to Danny White admonishing the fans, I'd like to see him toss the scoop and score call into the SEC office's lap and request a clarification statement. Unless they can validate that unicorn call, he should request that officiating team doesn't appear at Neyland again.
 
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