4+ years of Fulmer or 1 year of Kiffin w/possible violations?

#1
Rasputin_Vol

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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Aug 14, 2007
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#1
If Fulmer would have left on his own terms, what year would that have been? 2012? When he passed General Neyland with 174 wins? At the rate that our program was going, would it have been better to let Fulmer drag out 5-6 wins a year until he got there or are we better off right now, even with the Kiffin stuff lingering?

:popcorn:
 
#2
#2
Fulmer screwed this program badly. He took over a solid program and turned around and crashed it into the ground because he got fat, content, and lazy.
 
#4
#4
IMO We are far and away better off now... Fulmer's teams got worse each year. Attribute it to his lack of recruiting or the coaching... either way it was WAY past time for him to leave. I appreciate what he did for the program but his time was up and he couldnt see the writing on the wall. Im so sick of Fulmer, Kiffin, NCAA, etc. Im just ready to play football!!!!
Go Vols!!
 
#5
#5
Fulmer would of been gone after the 09 season if he didn't deliver. A little more patience from the Vol faithful might of got us a better coaching staff for this upcoming season, albeit donations would prolly be significantly down.
 
#6
#6
I'll take Phil all day. He gave his all to Tennessee, but got complacent and the program took a turn downward. It really drives me nuts that people can't appreciate what he did for the program and just let it be that he's no longer here. Kiffin, who did nothing good for TN, shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Fulmer.
 
#7
#7
another question .. no NC in '98 and fulmer is gone after '05 . . . or a NC in '98 and 15 years in the SEC desert w/o an SECC ....

i would still take the NC, but that may be a tougher question in a couple of years ..
 
#9
#9
Daddy Gee said:
another question .. no NC in '98 and fulmer is gone after '05 . . . or a NC in '98 and 15 years in the SEC desert w/o an SECC ....

i would still take the NC, but that may be a tougher question in a couple of years ..
Click to expand...

No NC in 98 and he might be gone after 02.
 
#10
#10
i agree that it was time to let Fulmer go because he did not have the passion anymore but it is unfair to say he took a solid program and ran it in the ground. He spent 10 years raising the program to elite status year after year. He was, at the end of the day, a very good hire for the University of Tennessee and did a great job but he stayed 3 years too long and made a critical mistake with the hire of Clawson (orhowever you spell it). JMO
 
#11
#11
I don't think most on this board can remember how bad vol fans wanted a NC before Fulmer. UT was not even in the hunt for thirty years before Fulmer. The 98 NC gave Vols a lot of credibility. I hate to see UT fans criticise one of their most successful coaches. It is ironic. It is like if you didn't like that era what era did you like.
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#12
#12
this is like asking if yoh would rather be kicked in the nuts or have them subjected to papercuts.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#13
#13
Rasputin_Vol said:
If Fulmer would have left on his own terms, what year would that have been? 2012? When he passed General Neyland with 174 wins? At the rate that our program was going, would it have been better to let Fulmer drag out 5-6 wins a year until he got there or are we better off right now, even with the Kiffin stuff lingering?

:popcorn:
Click to expand...

Fulmer would have had to win 9-10 games in 2009 with top-10 recruiting classes in 2009 & expected in 2010 to keep his position. He wouldn't have kept his job with "5-6 wins a year" though that is now our new expectation, apparently.

Possibility 1: According to Fulmer's critics, he stunk and would have done worse than Kiffin in 2009. If so, he would have retired/been fired after the '09 season.
Advantages: Far less divisiveness in fan base if Fulmer failed after a one-or-done mandate following 2008 season; no Kiffin (he'd be at USC or someplace else); less perception of UT as a pariah program for undue expectations than precipitated by the mid-season firing of Fulmer following an SEC title game appearance the season before; and likely more recruits on the roster than Kiffin's brutal and bloody attrition both from his arrival and his departure.
Disadvantages: What, we don't get Kiffin for 2009?!? How would that be a bad thing? Dooley would have been as available for 2010 as he was when Kiffin bolted, and our options for HC would have been better, not worse, than they turned out to be.

Possibility 2: Fulmer bounced back with a 9-10 win season, two top-10 recruiting classes, and is looking to 2012 as his retirement.
Advantages: A good season in 2009, and well situated for good seasons in the near future, with minimal bad blood and a coming transition.
Disadvantages: How would this be a bad situation?

There's no realistic scenario in which the Kiffin debacle was a good thing or better for us, regardless of one's beliefs about Fulmer's future prospects.
 
#14
#14
....and I am no insider so I truly do not know what the behind the scenes decision was but I think it was a huge mistake also to let Trooper Taylor go. He had passion and he connects with top notch high school recruits.....
 
#15
#15
FortMyersVol said:
i agree that it was time to let Fulmer go because he did not have the passion anymore but it is unfair to say he took a solid program and ran it in the ground. He spent 10 years raising the program to elite status year after year. He was, at the end of the day, a very good hire for the University of Tennessee and did a great job but he stayed 3 years too long and made a critical mistake with the hire of Clawson (orhowever you spell it). JMO
Click to expand...

He made a critical mistake elevating Sanders to OC, then bringing back Cutcliffe for a short term solution, and then made one final critical error bringing in Clawson.
 
#16
#16
VegasVol said:
Fulmer would have had to win 9-10 games in 2009 with top-10 recruiting classes in 2009 & expected in 2010 to keep his position. He wouldn't have kept his job with "5-6 wins a year" though that is now our new expectation, apparently.

Possibility 1: According to Fulmer's critics, he stunk and would have done worse than Kiffin in 2009. If so, he would have retired/been fired after the '09 season.
Advantages: Far less divisiveness in fan base if Fulmer failed after a one-or-done mandate following 2008 season; no Kiffin (he'd be at USC or someplace else); less perception of UT as a pariah program for undue expectations than precipitated by the mid-season firing of Fulmer following an SEC title game appearance the season before; and likely more recruits on the roster than Kiffin's brutal and bloody attrition both from his arrival and his departure.
Disadvantages: What, we don't get Kiffin for 2009?!? How would that be a bad thing? Dooley would have been as available for 2010 as he was when Kiffin bolted, and our options for HC would have been better, not worse, than they turned out to be.

Possibility 2: Fulmer bounced back with a 9-10 win season, two top-10 recruiting classes, and is looking to 2012 as his retirement.
Advantages: A good season in 2009, and well situated for good seasons in the near future, with minimal bad blood and a coming transition.
Disadvantages: How would this be a bad situation?

There's no realistic scenario in which the Kiffin debacle was a good thing or better for us, regardless of one's beliefs about Fulmer's future prospects.
Click to expand...

That's actually a pretty decent response, except for the first paragraph which I believe is madness. However, the rest of the post is based pretty heavily on hindsight. It was tough to imagine Kiffin would get such a cushy offer so early in his UT career and therefore making a decision based on that possibility wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.
 
#18
#18
FortMyersVol said:
....and I am no insider so I truly do not know what the behind the scenes decision was but I think it was a huge mistake also to let Trooper Taylor go. He had passion and he connects with top notch high school recruits.....
Click to expand...

Fulmer couldn't afford to gamble on a guy that's never coordinated an offense. Clawson and his staff weren't all that bad of recruiters, either.
 
#19
#19
Fulmer was last decade and did not know how to compete anymore. Two losing seasons in his last four with the resources he had was unacceptable.

A half empty stadium last year would have killed the program and that was going to happen. Hamilton had no choice.
 
#20
#20
VegasVol said:
Fulmer would have had to win 9-10 games in 2009 with top-10 recruiting classes in 2009 & expected in 2010 to keep his position. He wouldn't have kept his job with "5-6 wins a year" though that is now our new expectation, apparently.

Possibility 1: According to Fulmer's critics, he stunk and would have done worse than Kiffin in 2009. If so, he would have retired/been fired after the '09 season.
Advantages: Far less divisiveness in fan base if Fulmer failed after a one-or-done mandate following 2008 season; no Kiffin (he'd be at USC or someplace else); less perception of UT as a pariah program for undue expectations than precipitated by the mid-season firing of Fulmer following an SEC title game appearance the season before; and likely more recruits on the roster than Kiffin's brutal and bloody attrition both from his arrival and his departure.
Disadvantages: What, we don't get Kiffin for 2009?!? How would that be a bad thing? Dooley would have been as available for 2010 as he was when Kiffin bolted, and our options for HC would have been better, not worse, than they turned out to be.

Possibility 2: Fulmer bounced back with a 9-10 win season, two top-10 recruiting classes, and is looking to 2012 as his retirement.
Advantages: A good season in 2009, and well situated for good seasons in the near future, with minimal bad blood and a coming transition.
Disadvantages: How would this be a bad situation?

There's no realistic scenario in which the Kiffin debacle was a good thing or better for us, regardless of one's beliefs about Fulmer's future prospects.
Click to expand...
Kiffiin's tenure ended in disaster, but there was essentially no possibility of ever winning an SEC title under Fulmer again. That's the disadvantage. We'd basically have to wait until 2012 to start building towards winning the conference. We wouldn't be as far in the whole in 2012 as we are now (assuming Fulmer kept it together as in possibility 2), but we have 3 seasons to build towards it and it could certainly turn out better unless Dooley is incompetent.
 
#21
#21
did not have to make him a coordinator but we needed to keep him....he is kicking some a*s recruiting at Auburn right now.......
 
#22
#22
The problem was not Clawson... It was Flumers handling of OC. Would have been same result no mater who was OC. If Fulmer wanted to save his *ss he should have taken over OC duties himself
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#23
#23
FortMyersVol said:
did not have to make him a coordinator but we needed to keep him....he is kicking some a*s recruiting at Auburn right now.......
Click to expand...
Trooper is wildly overrated. He hasn't been on a staff of anyone winning championships, and I doubt he will be. And I believe our choices were promote him or lose him.
 
#24
#24
kptvol said:
He made a critical mistake elevating Sanders to OC, then bringing back Cutcliffe for a short term solution, and then made one final critical error bringing in Clawson.
Click to expand...

Were you paying attention from 1999 to 2004? Sanders was offensive coordinator and did a decent job. They screwed around in 2005 with the shuffling of too many quarterback. Fulmer got a little complacent and did not feel the sense of urgency until he was fired. I'm not a Fulmerite and wanted him gone but to blame OC's as to why he is gone would be missing the complete story.
 
#25
#25
Come on people... It really doesn't matter how UT football got where it is or the infinite possible outcomes of reliving the past 5-10 years.

How long do you folks want to live in the past?

It's WAY past time to move on..
 
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