3rd & Long/4th Down D....How to Improve?

#1

madbamahater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
7,078
Likes
8,001
#1
.....by a mile? With all the chatter and complaining (it is justified), it's no secret the Vols absolutely suck in these situations.

But, how do they get much better? What needs to improve to get off of the field at least some of the time?

If the Vols get off the field in half of these situations, we were looking at a 3 score (minimum) blow out.

Let me give credit where due......the forced fumble and recovery was an absolutely HUGE game changing moment. They did muster up a few huge plays that helped lead to victory. In the future, though, when you play with this tight of a margin of error, it will come back to haunt you more times than not.

My wishes won't come true, because there will just be lots of arguing and name calling in this thread. But, I hope knowledgeable folks can offer what can be done (real football talk, not I'm a better fan than you talk) to vastly improve....
 
#2

VOLfrombama

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
4,480
Likes
9,101
#2
Get consistent pressure from the front 4. We get closer to this every game. We saw glipses yesterday but really only landed pressure when we blitzed.

Be more physical in the secondary.

Stop losing your man in coverage. If it straight man, wear him like a blanket and make a play on the ball. If its zone man then make your switches better. That’s a communication issue.

Stop letting people find the open hole in your zone.
 
Likes: OrangeTsar
#3

MeanOrange

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
1,145
Likes
1,141
#3
Recorded the game yesterday and watched this morning. We have zero pass rush unless we blitz. The UF QB had way to much time to throw the ball. Hard for a DB to defend a WR that long. We get no push upfront.
Banks & JH should have seen this. When we did blitz, the UF QB could not hit the side of a barn. We should have blitzed him all day. On the onside kick, the kid looked like a deer in headlights. Instead of trying to go after the ball, he was waiting for it to come to him, by that time, the UF kid was running with the ball. We won anyway thank goodness.
 
#4

madbamahater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
7,078
Likes
8,001
#4
Recorded the game yesterday and watched this morning. We have zero pass rush unless we blitz. The UF QB had way to much time to throw the ball. Hard for a DB to defend a WR that long. We get no push upfront.
Banks & JH should have seen this. When we did blitz, the UF QB could not hit the side of a barn. We should have blitzed him all day. On the onside kick, the kid looked like a deer in headlights. Instead of trying to go after the ball, he was waiting for it to come to him, by that time, the UF kid was running with the ball. We won anyway thank goodness.
yes, a flushed out qb is less likely to hit a target while moving....
 
Likes: MeanOrange
#12

VolSummitt44

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
1,564
Likes
1,836
#12
Nearly every 3rd and 4th down they attacked our linebackers because they know they can't cover. Banks makes some plays but he he is atrocious when forced to cover anyone running a route. And it's not just him Beasley didn't do any better Mitchell either.
 
#13

imw8n4u

RT -WAB-HSHTM--G-O-R-T--RT-TN
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
2,471
Likes
6,881
#13
Napier also knew his team couldn’t stop our offense, so he needed to score on as many drives as possible.
Agree. And with our offense does it really matter if you punt us back 40 yards when we will pretty much be back where you punted from within a few plays anyway. Might as well take the chance to keep your offense on the field. I expect us to face a ton of 4th down attempts.
 
#17

utvols74

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
2,432
Likes
2,376
#17
If it is 3rd and 5+ yards, we should blitz a LB or DB from a different position on nearly every similar situation. Our front 4 is getting better, but we can maintain pressure consistently.

I also think different stunts with the front 4 could be helpful. Bull-rushing or swim-move every time can become predictable - especially to a talented OL whose has been playing OL since the 5th grade.
 
#19

VolinMichigan

Lifelong member of the Good Guys Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
4,506
Likes
2,554
#19
If you look at the Pitt game, we were much more aggressive. We got tons of pressure on their QBs and put them on their back a lot. Banks clearly was concerned with AR running and wanted to keep everything in front of the defense but our LBs can’t cover, which gives too many options for a QB that had all kinds of time all night. Not sure what you can do about that other than recruit guys who can cover.

Our open field tackling was terrible. How many times did we see a guy take a bad angle on AR in the backfield? He’s a big, athletic guy, but solid tackling could have, and should have, produced at least a couple more sacks. Same against some of the flats and out routes they ran. Defender Would over-pursue and WR makes a cut and they pick up 5-8 extra yards. Need to clean that up.

Pass defense was awful. Again AR had too much time. Hadden had that terrible play where he missed the tackle then went for the strip instead of just getting the guy on the ground. That’s just bad decision making. Lack of communication was obvious. Too many times the FL receivers were behind the defenders because they were keeping an eye on the QB run. Gotta know what your assignment is.
 
#20

BigOrangeTrain

Morior Invictus
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
62,715
Likes
65,725
#20
Our LBs and DBs are somehow going to have improve big tine. BJM and Martinez are going to have to start earning their paychecks. Other than that, I see no immediate solution.
 
#21

walkenvol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
10,790
Likes
15,768
#21
.....by a mile? With all the chatter and complaining (it is justified), it's no secret the Vols absolutely suck in these situations.

But, how do they get much better? What needs to improve to get off of the field at least some of the time?

If the Vols get off the field in half of these situations, we were looking at a 3 score (minimum) blow out.

Let me give credit where due......the forced fumble and recovery was an absolutely HUGE game changing moment. They did muster up a few huge plays that helped lead to victory. In the future, though, when you play with this tight of a margin of error, it will come back to haunt you more times than not.

My wishes won't come true, because there will just be lots of arguing and name calling in this thread. But, I hope knowledgeable folks can offer what can be done (real football talk, not I'm a better fan than you talk) to vastly improve....
I’m not a football coach, but it appears to me we’re trending in the right direction as the D looks improved from last season after losing 3 drafted players. Depth is better. D line isn’t dominant but they’re not getting pushed back and are being tough against the run. I was encouraged with Joseph’s play! Still need better play from the secondary but I understand the strategy to play a lot of zone against a running qb. Maybe the answer to your question is simply they need to keep working hard to improve and recruit hard?
 
#22

Firebirdparts

Best tackle for his weight the old school ever had
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
3,055
Likes
4,634
#22
Against AR you would blitz on third and long. That’s the right gamble there. On 4th and short, you can’t easily guess what to do. sorta have to play goal line defense.
 
Likes: HalfullVol
#23

volfan_28

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
8,631
Likes
11,480
#23
We did what gave us the best chance to win the game - prevent quick scores. They had to convert five 4th down conversations and recover an onside kick just to keep it close. We played to win and it worked.

There’s no reason to make major changes.
 
Likes: Coach_Z
#25

Woodlawn VOL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
3,706
Likes
7,015
#25
The main thing has been well documented when we bring 5-6 we cause the Qb to make a quick decision which causes things to be off. We can’t afford not to get pressure on any good quarterback. Here’s hoping as the year goes some of our young edge rushers will continue to make strides. Better communication in the secondary. We should be able to recruit secondary help, the playing time is there for a major talent. I do think our secondary will improve as the year goes on. It is gonna need too. GBO!
 

VN Store




Top