2021 Class Rankings

#51

Amb3096

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#51
There is a cruelty in the phrase "drive them off" that is detestable to me. Every coach has the experience of a player who because of attitude, personality, or some other issue makes them a bad fit for the team. Typically the coach will sit down with the player and have a series of heart to heart discussions about the issues. Coaching is first of all relationship building. The coach demonstrates concern for the player and works to inform the player of the situation and tries to resolve any underlying issues. Eventually the player may have to be told that it is in the player's best interest to try another venue. To drive off a player leaves the player without understanding of the core issues causing the player further pain and hardship down the road.
Hell, you don't even have to say anything. Just recruit players at their position and let them settle it on the practice court. If they are happy at the end of the bench, so be it. If they want more PT but haven't earned it, they can make the decision to switch schools.
 
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#52
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#52
There is a cruelty in the phrase "drive them off" that is detestable to me. Every coach has the experience of a player who because of attitude, personality, or some other issue makes them a bad fit for the team. Typically the coach will sit down with the player and have a series of heart to heart discussions about the issues. Coaching is first of all relationship building. The coach demonstrates concern for the player and works to inform the player of the situation and tries to resolve any underlying issues. Eventually the player may have to be told that it is in the player's best interest to try another venue. To drive off a player leaves the player without understanding of the core issues causing the player further pain and hardship down the road.
There is a cruelty in every position of authority.
I have had to fire people I like. in my lifetime as a manager...People with bills, families, responsibilities.
I don't do it without sentiment, but sometimes I have to do it.
Same with players.

And I do not do it without valid attempts to correct the weakness. I learned long ago I can't cure everyone.
Some will fall no matter what because they are either in their wrong strength or not inspired to succeed.

Teams are made in the season and individual skills are furthered in the offseason.
When I give a skill to be worked on during a separation period (be it a week or a summer), the first thing I do when I get back in front of that player is see if they worked on it.
If they show progress or signs of their efforts, wonderful.
But if they are scared to show me bc they didn't even take the time to TRY to work on it...Guess what!

@NeedOrange I am a compassionate man. I feel sentiment for the weak or challenged..But i have NO sentiment for "lazy" or the ones that give up without trying....Sorry, not sorry!
 
#53

GameTime

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#53
Today's college basketball, men or women's, is a tough business....The competition to be a top program and have the chance to compete for the top prize, comes with a high cost....Feeling will be hurt, dreams will not materialize, potentials will sometimes not be reached, but the quest for perfection will always be pursued.....

For any coach and their assistance, the bottom line necessary for retaining their positions, is how many games did you win, not how well did the team like you....Winning is everything!
 
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#54

Bballnut1952

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#54
Krich,, I don't post as a fan, I post as a coach.

I want to see improvement in the off-season, Covid-19, notwithstanding....I saw posts from prospects and players showing the administration and the masses their personal workouts and dedications to growth. That was good. There was validation that they weren't sitting and watching tv,,,they were working on their game. . . Now I want to see if that translates into growth on the court.

And, no I would never name names!
And I have, before, said something like this, as a catalyst for ALL of my charges in a team setting, not just to a chosen two....If the team think their heads is on a chopping block, will they fight or give up? Maybe I say something like this just to see if anyone will not fight for their spot.

Grow, or, Go!
Just a few comments that you will probably hate.

Sometimes you post like a coach. But you have made it clear you bleed Orange, even to the point where you, in my opinion, overrated players.

I mentioned this to you before, but I would be shocked if ANY players on ANY teams sat around and watched TV during COVID. Just because they didn’t put it out on social media doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. After all, this is why they are on scholarship. And they all have a desire to succeed.

You have implied names in the past. Massengill is one for sure. How do you let players know they are on the chopping block? Imply it by recruiting over them? Are you saying that is what Harper is doing or is that how you would do it? Why not get the most out of them with a combination of respect and the loss of playing time? Is fear of being cut your only motivation? And again, how do you cut them?

Your friend, Rutgers.
 
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#55

GameTime

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#55
Just a few comments that you will probably hate.

Sometimes you post like a coach. But you have made it clear you bleed Orange, even to the point where you, in my opinion, overrated players.

I mentioned this to you before, but I would be shocked if ANY players on ANY teams sat around and watched TV during COVID. Just because they didn’t put it out on social media doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. After all, this is why they are on scholarship. And they all have a desire to succeed.

You have implied names in the past. Massengill is one for sure. How do you let players know they are on the chopping block? Imply it by recruiting over them? Are you saying that is what Harper is doing or is that how you would do it? Why not get the most out of them with a combination of respect and the loss of playing time? Is fear of being cut your only motivation? And again, how do you cut them?

Your friend, Rutgers.
Contact Freak and see if you can change your name to Rutgers....Great name!
 
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#56
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#56
Just a few comments that you will probably hate.

Sometimes you post like a coach. But you have made it clear you bleed Orange, even to the point where you, in my opinion, overrated players.

Blah

I mentioned this to you before, but I would be shocked if ANY players on ANY teams sat around and watched TV during COVID. Just because they didn’t put it out on social media doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. After all, this is why they are on scholarship. And they all have a desire to succeed.

Yawn


Now we're somewhere I will address:
....How do you let players know they are on the chopping block? Imply it by recruiting over them?

I never publicly berate or embarrass a player, be it game or practice, unless they openly defy my efforts. If a player is "in my sights", I talk to them privately and let them know "it ain't personal" (unless they have made it so)... Just like in my management process, I give 3 warnings, verbal, written (2nd verbal for players) and then gloves off. At the end of last season, every player needed to be sat down with and told what they did right, what they did wrong and what they need to focus on improvement-wise...The first thing that should happen when re-convening is the same talk revisited. I don't recruit over someone without them knowing about it. That is underhanded. If I don't have the cochungas to face my charges,, then I shouldn't be in charge.

Are you saying that is what Harper is doing or is that how you would do it?

I cannot speak for Coach K.

Why not get the most out of them with a combination of respect and the loss of playing time? Is fear of being cut your only motivation? And again, how do you cut them?

If I get to the point where I want someone out of my way, it is because all proper channels and methods have been attempted. Fear of being cut is a whimpy-coach's way of dealing with a problem...You are correct, "respect" is the way to get the most out of your players...However, to get it you have to give it!

Fear is a not a good motivator, if anything it is a stumbling block for the one instilled and the one instilling. Leading by intimidation is a form of fear in itself!

Your friend, Rutgers.
Some people consider a "friend" anyone that wouldn't put a knife in their back...for me that tag is much higher. It is obtained by time, trust and honor. I would, without consideration, risk my life for one I call friend...on this forum @Smallvol#1 and @GameTime have proven to be friends and I have several budding friendships with people like @EarlVolFan @LadyVols_WBK , @tnvolfan65 and several others....You and I still have a ways to go....Just being honest
 
#57

NeedOrange

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#57
There is a cruelty in every position of authority.
I have had to fire people I like. in my lifetime as a manager...People with bills, families, responsibilities.
I don't do it without sentiment, but sometimes I have to do it.
Same with players.

And I do not do it without valid attempts to correct the weakness. I learned long ago I can't cure everyone.
Some will fall no matter what because they are either in their wrong strength or not inspired to succeed.

Teams are made in the season and individual skills are furthered in the offseason.
When I give a skill to be worked on during a separation period (be it a week or a summer), the first thing I do when I get back in front of that player is see if they worked on it.
If they show progress or signs of their efforts, wonderful.
But if they are scared to show me bc they didn't even take the time to TRY to work on it...Guess what!

@NeedOrange I am a compassionate man. I feel sentiment for the weak or challenged..But i have NO sentiment for "lazy" or the ones that give up without trying....Sorry, not sorry!
I too have had to terminate employees. There is never any excuse or need for cruelty and there is no justification of being cruel.
 
#58
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#58
I too have had to terminate employees. There is never any excuse or need for cruelty and there is no justification of being cruel.
The cruelty I speak of is having to fire someone in the first place....It is cruel to back me into a position where I have to do this in the first place...I'd rather be buying sausage biscuits or KK doughnuts and handing out accommodations, not firing people.

But if I am forced to do so for the betterment of the task, I am a coldblooded assassin.
 
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#60

Bballnut1952

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#60
Some people consider a "friend" anyone that wouldn't put a knife in their back...for me that tag is much higher. It is obtained by time, trust and honor. I would, without consideration, risk my life for one I call friend...on this forum @Smallvol#1 and @GameTime have proven to be friends and I have several budding friendships with people like @EarlVolFan @LadyVols_WBK , @tnvolfan65 and several others....You and I still have a ways to go....Just being honest
No offense, but if you would risk your life for anyone on. Message board, you are pretty much insane.

I‘m not looking to be your friend. So don’t worry about it. Friends to you pretty much mean those that don’t disagree with you.
 
#61
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#61
No offense, but if you would risk your life for anyone on. Message board, you are pretty much insane.

I‘m not looking to be your friend. So don’t worry about it. Friends to you pretty much mean those that don’t disagree with you.
I have known sv personally for several years now and GT is a kindred spirit.
....I know how things get with you, Major Burns, so if you don't mind lets get this thread back on track
 
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#62

Voldopia

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#62
I don’t think the number 7 class is anything to be ashamed of...we haven’t been a top-10 program in years. I think this class represents Kellie building the culture as much as anything. I think all four of these kids are four-year players and will put in the work to be successful.

I also agree it’s a well-rounded class and filled our needs. But to be realistic, I think this class is missing star power. Which of these players is going to be an All-SEC player or a first-round WNBA pick in four years? I think if that’s offensive, then I would question your objectivity. But I also realize the audience here.
You're right. The next step for KJH will be success on the court, including a deep tournament run and some high profile wins. Star power will then follow.

Excellent work, btw.
 
#64
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#64
you two belong together

A hint, nut,,,opening a post with "Just a few comments that you will probably hate." and then getting in a dig "....in my opinion, overrated players.",,,,Loses your credibility to the target (me) and thus your question.

Look back at your questions toward me and you will see a pattern,,,jab, jab, question,,,wonderment as to why I don't take you seriously,,,,insult example: (Now don’t you have some 12 year old girls to intimidate? )

nut, I have five posters on this whole sight who consistently look to "put me in my place" and then there are the rest who watch the fight and wonder why you guys are taking the effort to instigate me and often speak up in my behalf.

And it's not about agreeing with me...Gametime has several times not agreed with me, like below:

Coach, I don't agree with you my friend......The pg is often the straw that stirs the drink....As stated by others, if she is a liability shooting the ball, the other (smart) teams will back off of her and let her shoot her low percentage floor shots.........
And I still consider him a friend, not because he agree's with me, but because when he doesn't he doesn't lead in with a jab jab.
 
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#67

sgacock

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#67
Those rankings are all over the place. Wynn and Miles didn't make PN's list, but were top 50 by ESPN?

I agree that a better indicator of how good a player is projected to be is based on which schools recruited them. Not just SEC schools, but if the usual suspects in the top 20 rankings were after a player, chances are she's a keeper.
I don’t trust “who recruited them” because we don’t know the level of recruitment or if the others schools actually recruited them. This is the same argument I make re football recruiting where people look at “offers.”

First: schools cannot disclose who they have offered. Information about who has offered comes from the prospect or his/her high school coach. What are they basing that on. The receipt of a recruiting brochure and form letter saying “we want you?” A few telephone calls from an assistant coach? Attendance at a game by an assistant who happens to be in the area but really there in contact with another prospect?

Second: followers of football recruiting where more info is available know the terms “offer” and “commitable offer.” It is not too rare that a prospect announces a commitment only to find out that the school’s perceived offer was not genuine. Sad but true.

Third: “recruited by” is even more nebulous than “offered.” We have no clue what that means. Telephone call by a school’s coach in the 9th grade?

Recruited by is just too nebulous. Now, if a school gives an official visit to a player and her parents or a coach makes an in-home visit, that’s serious recruitment. However, that level of recruiting info is seldom available in women’s basketball.

So, “recruited by” is too vague for me to put much weight on.
 
#68

djtee

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#68
Using the consensus rankings of ESPN, Prospects Nation, ASGR, and Blue Star (posted somewhere a couple months ago on this board), I assign numerical values to recruits that I can then plug into a formula for class rankings. Formula is highest ranking player * 6 + 2nd highest ranking player * 3 + 3rd highest ranking player * 1.5 + each additional recruit. I also have a bonus system that rewards multiple high ranking players (helps with ties as well). In the case of a tie, the tiebreaker is highest ranking player.

I'm sure this will shift a bit when the rankings are updated/expanded (looking at you Prospects Nation!) but as of 7/2/20.


I think UNC will move up from number 7 the class is very strong.
 
#70
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#70
Some people consider a "friend" anyone that wouldn't put a knife in their back...for me that tag is much higher. It is obtained by time, trust and honor. I would, without consideration, risk my life for one I call friend...on this forum @Smallvol#1 and @GameTime have proven to be friends and I have several budding friendships with people like @EarlVolFan @LadyVols_WBK , @tnvolfan65 and several others....You and I still have a ways to go....Just being honest
What, Jump, Did you forget to mention Moi! My feelings are fractured!
 
#73
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#73
I do all the time,,,Me and Jump do not see eye to eye on many things. Just as you mentioned above.
Those I mentioned are beyond just this board....One, I have now known for 5 years and I look forward to the 6th....I value my true friends, be it from this board or in any venue I might make a friend. Piney, if I ever get the chance to say hello, I will do so and greet you and talk about anything that we find conversationally entertaining.

Why would someone wants to make friends here? just comment on things u like or don't like and move it on.
We differ hear, sisaq and that's fine...through this board I got to meet people like @gule @Chippo and a couple of others at games. I have met some wonderful people, as well I have been stalked by one who saw me, knew who I was and stayed as a shadow, lurking. But this is a public forum and I am a public figure. I hide from no one. And if I get the chance to make another contact/friend,, cool-beans.
 
#74

VA_VOLFAN

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#74
Those I mentioned are beyond just this board....One, I have now known for 5 years and I look forward to the 6th....I value my true friends, be it from this board or in any venue I might make a friend. Piney, if I ever get the chance to say hello, I will do so and greet you and talk about anything that we find conversationally entertaining.



We differ hear, sisaq and that's fine...through this board I got to meet people like @gule @Chippo and a couple of others at games. I have met some wonderful people, as well I have been stalked by one who saw me, knew who I was and stayed as a shadow, lurking. But this is a public forum and I am a public figure. I hide from no one. And if I get the chance to make another contact/friend,, cool-beans.
that’s all fine and dandy lol so I’m back to this feeling thing... still a good feeling about a recruit that could make a difference ? Or meh? Sorry I’m pressing you and I won’t hold you to it but I’m a teacher , stressed, and I could use something to focus on lol

I am not your stalker nor do I want to stalk you but since being spot on with miles I think you have me intrigued !

Also looking forward to your report from ATL!
 
#75
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#75
that’s all fine and dandy lol so I’m back to this feeling thing... still a good feeling about a recruit that could make a difference ? Or meh? Sorry I’m pressing you and I won’t hold you to it but I’m a teacher , stressed, and I could use something to focus on lol

I am not your stalker nor do I want to stalk you but since being spot on with miles I think you have me intrigued !

Also looking forward to your report from ATL!

I know who the stalker is, by avatar name,,,still have no idea what he looks like, but know enough about him to know how and why he tried so hard to keep track of me.

Nothing has diminished my optimism at this writing, in fact I am gone from 50-50 to 60-40 and will be able to get a better read after next week. By next weekend, I hope to have an answer
 
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