2020 qb comparison/talk/debate (merged)

[1vol8]

Yes. I have lived in Phoenix for almost 20 years. Great hiking here as you mention. I’m actually FROM Maryland and Knoxville (lived there 7 years during childhood and went back to UT for college) which explains my orange blood.

I didn’t like it there at all tbh though. I’m from Florida so the change in scenery was a shell shock. You never know how much palm trees mean to you until you leave.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Who do you take of our current qbs (all seasoned and healthy) to win vs Bama in the future?

Gotta say HB. Our team will be much better when he has a few years under his belt. We won’t have a shot at Bama till then.

 

[peaygolf]

Wasn’t Otto also and NBA player or at least a great college b-ball player. He absolutely could have played today’s game. Would probably do better since nobody would be allowed to tackle him now.

Yes......before the NBA. I think NBL? Won a championship I think. I know he went to northwestern on a basketball scholarship

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

I didn’t like it there at all tbh though. I’m from Florida so the change in scenery was a shell shock. You never know how much palm trees mean to you until you leave.

Understand. It takes a while to get used to the ‘brown’ landscape but it kind of grows on you after a while.

 

[JMSqb11]

Gotta say HB. Our team will be much better when he has a few years under his belt. We won’t have a shot at Bama till then.

Yup. We landed him, tons of lightning fast guys on outside and literally gave giants on the offensive line.

HB going thru one full year in program and S&C will be huge. Same with Maurer but Bailey is the future.

Bailey should be the guy post JG.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

1. Manning
2. Clausen
3. Holloway
4. Bray
5. Shuler
6. Dobbs
7. Martin
8. Ainge
9. Robinson
10. Kelly

Clausen seems a little too high as does Bray. I might put Shuler or Dobbs ahead of maybe one of them. Tony R was very talented but his career was cut short. Kelly not the most talented but he sure did win a lot.

 

[1vol8]

Gotta say HB. Our team will be much better when he has a few years under his belt. We won’t have a shot at Bama till then.

With the regular 4-5* d lineman and LBs they get every year I personally believe we have a better shot with a seasoned Maurer or Holliday tbh. Bailey will be a sitting duck when the protection breaks down imo

 

[peaygolf]

Actually Dan Fouts and Air Coryell changed the game and made Dan Marino, Peyton, etc. possible. They revolutionized the game.

Really want to know who revolutionized the passing game? Big John Merritt at Tennessee State had a major role. Eldridge Dickey and Joe Gilliam

Edit.....but Coryell did too at San Diego State

 

[Volunteer_Kirby]

5 QB system.

Hill takes first snap and is starter, then B.M. goes in and gets pulled after his first incompletion. J.G. goes in next only to get pulled after he makes a mistake, this sets Shrout up for a 3 & out, only to have H.B. finish the game and take all the credit for the win.

 

[whodeycin85]

Yup. We landed him, tons of lightning fast guys on outside and literally gave giants on the offensive line.

HB going thru one full year in program and S&C will be huge. Same with Maurer but Bailey is the future.

Bailey should be the guy post JG.

Hard to say straight out HB. If he can be a drop back and throw it 40 times guy itll help. But i fear he will need a top flight RB.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Imo all those qb were great. But a qb play is not all on how good the qb is. The ol they play behind, the receivers they have. There have been a lot of good qb that are rarely mentioned because they played on bad teams. Archie Manning was very good but played on bad teams. I couldn't say one of those mentioned above that one is better than the other they were all very good. The era of football as well as the teams they played on and the offensive scheme used by coaches makes a lot of difference. I wonder how tua would have done if he had played for les miles at lsu?? Or Connor under les miles offense.

Spot on.

 

[1vol8]

Hard to say straight out HB. If he can be a drop back and throw it 40 times guy itll help. But i fear he will need a top flight RB.

I agree. It’s hard to say how he would fair without the threat of a run game to keep the defense honest.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

So this thread has been a little disappointing thus far so I’ll try and spice it up. For those who don’t know I’m am tied to the position of qb evaluation by default. I enjoy talking about offense and qbs in particular. I hope I don’t regret this but I’m going to put a non-detailed qb evaluation of all of our current qbs on the board and those who choose to talk/debate about it feel free. I know this won’t work for all and also know that most will disagree with SOMETHING but let’s try and stay respectful. This is based on what IVE seen live. 1-10. + Total overall score

(JG)- Accuracy- 7
Pocket presence - 5
Ball placement- 6
Arm strength- 7 (assumed)
Awareness- 5
Speed- 6
Elusiveness- 4
Improvise- 4
Decision making- 8
Experience- 8. 60

(JTS)- accuracy- 6 (most of the time he’s a 7)
Pocket presence- 7
Ball placement- 6
Arm strength- 8
Awareness- 7
Speed- 6
Elusiveness- 4
Improvise- 4
Decision making- 6
Experience- 2. 56

(BM)- accuracy- 8
Pocket presence- 8
Ball placement- 7
Arm strength- 7
Awareness- 7
Speed- 7
Elusiveness- 6
Improvise- 7
Decision making- 7 ( based on Hs)
Experience- 3. 67

(HB)- Accuracy- 8
Pocket presence- 8
Ball placement- 7
Arm strength- 6
Awareness- 7
Speed- 5
Elusiveness- 4
Improvise- 5
Decision making- 6 (based on Hs)
Experience- 0. 56

I don’t know anything about Hill or Holliday outside of stats from Maryland or Hs so I can’t include them until I see them live.

I know you are a BM guy and your scoring shows . Seriously though, I the the area that separates him from the others the most is ‘improvise’. He did seem to make things happen when the odds were against him, a play was busted, etc. I’m not sure what the category would be for ‘energy’ but he definitely brought that to the table as well.

 

[SmashMouth]

Brady is the modern day GOAT. As a Vol and Steeler, I want to vomit, but it's true. a QB is ultimately ranked on championships.

Every other stat or contribution is static. How many Championships did you lead your team to win? That's a leader, that's the QB. That's the GOAT, Tom Brady.

btw...see Otto Graham for all time GOAT. 7-10 in CHAMPIONSHIP games. Never missed a championship game. That's a Boss.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Yeah, that's what people say. Some people seem to think he won those games all by himself. Some people act like it makes absolutely no difference that he just so happened to play his entire career for the best coach of his era and on the best team of his era -- a team that cycled players in and out regularly over the years at every other position and yet still kept on winning. We're supposed to believe that Brady was the one indispensable guy -- that they never could have won all those games without him.

Spot on. Agree 100%. Several backups have been inserted and there really wasn’t a difference in output.

 

[9876543vol]

The real competition should be between Maurer and Bailey, I thank Guarantano for his service as a Vol, but I wish he would move on.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

Brady is the modern day GOAT. As a Vol and Steeler, I want to vomit, but it's true. a QB is ultimately ranked on championships.

Every other stat or contribution is static. How many Championships did you lead your team to win? That's a leader, that's the QB. That's the GOAT, Tom Brady.

btw...see Otto Graham for all time GOAT. 7-10 in CHAMPIONSHIP games. Never missed a championship game. That's a Boss.

Fake news. Brady has very little to do with at least half of his TEAMs SB wins. My mother would have won last years SB the way NE’s defense completely shut down the Rams. His first 3 he was basically a glorified game manager- he just made sure he didn’t do anything stupid while the defense controlled the game. Not sure why everyone calls the SB rings ‘Brady’s rings’ as if he is the only one who played. He’s done a nice job leading NEs offense over the years but he is also grossly overrated.

 

[whodeycin85]

Yup. We landed him, tons of lightning fast guys on outside and literally gave giants on the offensive line.

HB going thru one full year in program and S&C will be huge. Same with Maurer but Bailey is the future.

Bailey should be the guy post JG.

Hard to say straight out HB. If he can be a drop back and throw it 40 times guy itll help. But i fear he will need a top flight RB.

 

[JMSqb11]

Hard to say straight out HB. If he can be a drop back and throw it 40 times guy itll help. But i fear he will need a top flight RB.

We will be fine. I could easily see him being another Jacob Eason......

 

[SmashMouth]

Fake news. Brady has very little to do with at least half of his TEAMs SB wins. My mother would have won last years SB the way NE’s defense completely shut down the Rams. His first 3 he was basically a glorified game manager- he just made sure he didn’t do anything stupid while the defense controlled the game. Not sure why everyone calls the SB rings ‘Brady’s rings’ as if he is the only one who played. He’s done a nice job leading NEs offense over the years but he is also grossly overrated.

False. Totally not fair giving him credit. "He's done a nice job" Nope. So tired of hearing how easy it is to win 6 super bowls. Especially defending a dude that is 12-3 vs the Steelers.

The only way to compare QB is is by championships. Who won, against their competition, in their era. Would a tight end have made the difference? Perhaps. Would a better OC have mattered. Maybe? But winning is the only thing that matters. and Tom Brady has won more. He's the GOAT.

btw, not doing anything stupid at QB in a super bowl is a pretty impressive stat.

 

[1vol8]

I know you are a BM guy and your scoring shows . Seriously though, I the the area that separates him from the others the most is ‘improvise’. He did seem to make things happen when the odds were against him, a play was busted, etc. I’m not sure what the category would be for ‘energy’ but he definitely brought that to the table as well.

I can’t hide that I’m a Maurer guy. But with that said I’m not easily impressed either and I wanted to be fair. But my belief in him was certainly earned. The scores you see I’ve done for many others as well and in an effort NOT to seem biased I sold Maurer short on a few things. But there’s just no denying his overall skill set. I personally think he’s an 8 at improvise. He’s an 8 at arm strength as well. And I battled with giving him an 8 for speed. The problem was looking at it in a column it certainly seemed (even to me) to appear biased. “Energy” falls under leadership and that’s something I could’ve added but chose not to because I can only rate him honestly. The others I’d be guessing through hearsay.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

May be the fifth most talented next year.

Since you want to do number rankings lets go. I won't use experience because that gives JG an unfair advantage.
Secstatcat

Accuracy
JG-8 59.29 % 55.31 accuracy%
Hb-8 n/a assumed due to ranking and hs performance
Hill-6 53.4%
Jt-5 48.15% 48.15%
JH-4 assumed
BM-4 47.22% 45.83%

Pocket presence
HB- 8 assumed -
Jg-7 lowest sack rate
JT-7
Bm-6 quickest release highest sack rate
Hill-6 sack rate similar to BM
JH-6 assumed

Ball placement-
HB-8 assumed
JG- 8
Hill-6
JT-5
JH-4 assumed
BM-3 18.06 passes are interceptible vs 6.64 JG and 7.41 JT , lowest rate of accurately thrown passes

Arm strength
All about a 7-8 so 7.5 for each

Awareness
JG-8
HB- 7 assumed
Hill-6 assumed
JH- 3 assumed
BM- 3 high turnover, sack, and fumble rates, low percentages and ypa
JT-3 throws into coverage

Speed
JH-10
BM-7
JG-6
HB-4
Hill-3
JT-3

Elusiveness
JH-10
BM-5
JG-5
Hill-4
HB-3
JT-3

Improvisation
JH-9
BM-7
JG-6
Hill-5
HB-5
JT-3

Decision Making
JG-9
HB-8
Hill-6
JH-4
BM-3

Totals-
JG-64.5
HB-60.5
JH-56.5
Hill- 48.5
BM-38.5
JT-36.5


More like fourth or fifth if we are going by raw talent.

He can't throw like JG or Bailey and he can't run like Holiday.

Ball placement, awareness, pocket presence, decision making - all 7-9 for JG? I know he improved over the season but these scores are still inflated. Same elusiveness as BM? Not sure about this. Your bias for JG in your scoring matches or exceeds the OPs bias for BM. I like both QBs and both have made great contributions but I think we need an ‘objective’ observer to come up with their proper scores.

 

[1vol8]

False. Totally not fair giving him credit. "He's done a nice job" Nope. So tired of hearing how easy it is to win 6 super bowls. Especially defending a dude that is 12-3 vs the Steelers.

The only way to compare QB is is by championships. Who won, against their competition, in their era. Would a tight end have made the difference? Perhaps. Would a better OC have mattered. Maybe? But winning is the only thing that matters. and Tom Brady has won more. He's the GOAT.

btw, not doing anything stupid at QB in a super bowl is a pretty impressive stat.

I gotta disagree on this. Here’s why. Being in a division with the likes of the Jets, Dolphins and Bills for the last 20 years the Patriots were all but guaranteed a playoff birth every year. Being in the AFC where the only other CONSISTENT team is the Steelers they’ve had a fairly easy road through the playoffs as well. Given the fact that they seem to get caught cheating every 3 years only tells me there’s more going on than we know and it’s constantly.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

False. Totally not fair giving him credit. "He's done a nice job" Nope. So tired of hearing how easy it is to win 6 super bowls. Especially defending a dude that is 12-3 vs the Steelers.

The only way to compare QB is is by championships. Who won, against their competition, in their era. Would a tight end have made the difference? Perhaps. Would a better OC have mattered. Maybe? But winning is the only thing that matters. and Tom Brady has won more. He's the GOAT.

btw, not doing anything stupid at QB in a super bowl is a pretty impressive stat.

He would have no SBs and likely a have been journeyman backup had he not been drafted by NE. Quite a few QBs could have been inserted in his place and Pats would have still won those SBs. He has no athleticism, has average arm strength and had enjoyed an oline that gives him a ton of time to stand there a throw 5 yard slants all day. Never have been impressed with him and never will be. I respect your opinion though - you are entitled to it and raise some good points as others do.

 

[1vol8]

Ball placement, awareness, pocket presence, decision making - all 7-9 for JG? I know he improved over the season but these scores are still inflated. Same elusiveness as BM? Not sure about this. Your bias for JG in your scoring matches or exceeds the OPs bias for BM. I like both QBs and both have made great contributions but I think we need an ‘objective’ observer to come up with their proper scores.

If there’s something in the scores for any of them that seem unfair or biased I’ll be happy to explain how I came to that number. I don’t mean it to be or seem biased at all.