2017 Vols will have the #1 or #2 ranked DEFENSE in the SEC

#326
#326
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Bamawriter corrected me. I believe he said it was in 2011 when Bama got run all over by a triple option team.
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So you mean GA Southern then, with 302y as opposed to 400. In fact total yards were 341.

If the argument is the TO can give even good defenses troubles that's one thing but comparing two games where one team gave up 302 vs 535 yards rushing and 341 vs 655 total yards really isn't nearly as helpful as you make it out to be.
 
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#327
#327
hndog609 said:
So you mean GA Southern then, with 302y as opposed to 400. In fact total yards were 341.

If the argument is the TO can give even good defenses troubles that's one thing but comparing two games where one team gave up 302 vs 535 yards rushing and 341 vs 655 total yards really isn't nearly as helpful as you make it out to be.
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That Bama defense last I checked was being hyped as the greatest defense of all-time and they struggled with the triple option significantly more than they struggled with everyone else that year. I never said this year's defense for the Vols is the best ever. Just said they would finish top 2 in the SEC and that you shouldn't read our struggles against an option team as indicative that we'll also struggle against everyone else.

Go back and look at how many rushing yards per game Alabama gave up in 2011. Then multiply that by 1.5. If the Vols are giving up that many rush yards per same this year, I'd say they are doing pretty good.
 
#328
#328
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
That Bama defense last I checked was being hyped as the greatest defense of all-time and they struggled with the triple option significantly more than they struggled with everyone else that year. I never said this year's defense for the Vols is the best ever. Just said they would finish top 2 in the SEC and that you shouldn't read our struggles against an option team as indicative that we'll also struggle against everyone else.

Go back and look at how many rushing yards per game Alabama gave up in 2011. Then multiply that by 2. If the Vols are giving up that many rush yards per same this year, I'd say they are doing pretty good.
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I realize you're trying to equivocate here (it's to be expected from you really) but note that while I clearly stated the idea of a TO team skewing rushing yards is reasonable the disparity I cited isn't something to be ignored by rational people. 341 vs 655 is a BIG difference in yardage surrendered.

Out of curiosity did a bit of looking and since 2010 GT has only gained more than 500y rushing on anybody other than us once...604 vs Kansas in 2011.
 
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#332
#332
hndog609 said:
I realize you're trying to equivocate here (it's to be expected from you really) but note that while I clearly stated the idea of a TO team skewing rushing yards is reasonable the disparity I cited isn't something to be ignored by rational people. 341 vs 655 is a BIG difference in yardage surrendered.
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More to the point, Bama hadn't just surrendered 600+ yards in 3 of their previous 4 games either.
 
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#336
#336
bamawriter said:
"All over" = just over half of what UT gave up the other night. And Bama played every guy on the defensive two-deep and then some.
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Correct if I'm wrong but doesn't that Bama defense in 2011 get called the best defense ever by many? I know I've heard Finebaum mention it several times.

My only point with bringing up that example was to show that the triple option is by design gonna give even a dominant defense more problems than a more talented traditional offense will.

If Alabama played Georgia Southern the first game in 2011 and gave up 300 yards rushing, it would have been wrong to say after that game that the 2011 team would struggle to stop the run all year.

I'm saying the same thing here about the 2017 Vols. Its wrong to suggest that they will struggle against the run when they play traditional offenses because they stuggled against the triple option.
 
#337
#337
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Lotta season left. Remember in 2009 Alabama gave up 400 yards rushing to a triple option team and still finished #1 in the country against the run.

One game flukes happen.

You all will change your tune in 2 weeks when we hold Florida to about the same number of yards that Michigan did.

Week 3 against Florida is when we'll know how good we're gonna be on defense. Week 1 was a fluke. We can learn nothing from it.
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Great defenses earn the reputation by shutting down terrible offenses
 
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#338
#338
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Georgia Tech is an outlier. We're not gonna see an offense like that again this year. If Florida runs all over us in 2 weeks with that horrible offensive line then we should be worried. Till then I have belief in Shoop and the players.

I really like this year's defense. They will lead us to a national championship.
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I believe you would Double Down on a 16 (casino reference)....
 
#339
#339
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Correct if I'm wrong but doesn't that Bama defense in 2011 get called the best defense ever by many? I know I've heard Finebaum mention it several times.


I'm saying the same thing here about the 2017 Vols. Its wrong to suggest that they will struggle against the run when they play traditional offenses because they stuggled against the triple option.
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Don't misunderstand: I'm not trying to get you to revise your absurd prognostications. Heck, I'm not trying to get you to acknowledge the obvious fact that UT's defense was lousy on Monday night. I understand how your schtick works. The fact is that UT could produce the worst defense in SEC history and you will still be here telling everyone how your prediction wasn't wrong.
 
#340
#340
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Bamawriter corrected me. I believe he said it was in 2011 when Bama got run all over by a triple option team.
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How does giving up 341 total yards in a late November, week before your rival "Who gives a crap" game and winning by 24 comparable to giving up 655 yards and winning in double overtime in a season opener against the "2017 ACC champion"?
 
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#343
#343
Will the Vols end up with the SEC worst defense, good question, but last years D was indeed among the worst ever, no?

Why can't the Vols develop a good defense, when Vandy can? Possibly a question that will be asked at years end.....it certainly should be asked, no?
Go Vols
 
#344
#344
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Wrong.

Defensive line is the strongest position group on this team. I love what I saw from Kongbo, Vickers, KMac, and Taylor. Can't wait to see Shy. From what I've seen in practice he looks in phenomenal shape. And I believe Kyle Phillips will make a big impact as the season goes on.

Overall we are 6 deep with quality starting caliber NFL defensive lineman (Vickers, Kongbo, Taylor, McKenzie, Tuttle, and Phillips). We have a emerging superstar at LB in Bituli and McDowell looks better than he ever has. And our secondary is loaded with 4 really good players (Gaulden, Warrior, Aberbathy, and Moseley). We need Martin to step up. But other than that the defense is looking AWESOME.
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Our Dline except for Taylor looked weak. The DTs played horrible. You're just naming names at this point.
 
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#345
#345
photovol said:
Will the Vols end up with the SEC worst defense, good question, but last years D was indeed among the worst ever, no?

Why can't the Vols develop a good defense, when Vandy can? Possibly a question that will be asked at years end.....it certainly should be asked, no?
Go Vols
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Since Jancek left, our defense has gotten substantially worse. I am sure that if our defense continues to be horrible, some will find a way to absolve Shoop.
 
#346
#346
BigOrangeTrain said:
Since Jancek left, our defense has gotten substantially worse. I am sure that if our defense continues to be horrible, some will find a way to absolve Shoop.
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Indeed, but I'm not so sure the Vols have the players it takes to be a really good defense or so it appears......players make plays
 
#347
#347
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Correct if I'm wrong but doesn't that Bama defense in 2011 get called the best defense ever by many? I know I've heard Finebaum mention it several times.

My only point with bringing up that example was to show that the triple option is by design gonna give even a dominant defense more problems than a more talented traditional offense will.

If Alabama played Georgia Southern the first game in 2011 and gave up 300 yards rushing, it would have been wrong to say after that game that the 2011 team would struggle to stop the run all year.

I'm saying the same thing here about the 2017 Vols. Its wrong to suggest that they will struggle against the run when they play traditional offenses because they stuggled against the triple option.
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You just dont get it. Its not about just the GT game. If the GT game were the only game where an opponent absolutely shredded us, then you can count GT as an outlier. But it wasnt. Our defense gave up an average of almost 450 yards rushing per game last year. We had the 95Th ranked defense. Dont you see? Its the combination of last year and what just happened why some of us are saying you are crazy.

And since you want to bring up outliers and the Bama defense of 2011. Tell me, where did Bamas defense rank in 2010? I will save you the time, they ranked 5th in total defense and 8th against the run. So they didnt give up 300 and 400 yard rushing performances earlier that season. As a matter of fact, even though GS gained over 300 yards rushing, Alabama still averaged only 72 yards per game rushing that year.

You are trying your best to put lipstick on a pig here and its failing miserably.
 
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#348
#348
photovol said:
Indeed, but I'm not so sure the Vols have the players it takes to be a really good defense or so it appears......players make plays
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Thats confusing though. Butch has done a good job at recruiting for the most part. he has gotten some highly recruited and ranked players. So talent shouldnt be an issue.

Is it coaching then? Or a combination of both? I honestly have no clue. But whatever it is. I hope it gets fixed ASAP.
 
#350
#350
BigOrangeTrain said:
You just dont get it. Its not about just the GT game. If the GT game were the only game where an opponent absolutely shredded us, then you can count GT as an outlier. But it wasnt. Our defense gave up an average of almost 450 yards rushing per game last year. We had the 95Th ranked defense. Dont you see? Its the combination of last year and what just happened why some of us are saying you are crazy.

And since you want to bring up outliers and the Bama defense of 2011. Tell me, where did Bamas defense rank in 2010? I will save you the time, they ranked 5th in total defense and 8th against the run. So they didnt give up 300 and 400 yard rushing performances earlier that season. As a matter of fact, even though GS gained over 300 yards rushing, Alabama still averaged only 72 yards per game rushing that year.

You are trying your best to put lipstick on a pig here and its failing miserably.
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So you're saying injuries don't matter? Cause you are totally ignoring the fact most of those bad defensive performances came when we became ravaged by injuries. In particular to our defensive tackles.
 
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