'17 GA ATH DeAngelo Gibbs

[bignewt]

It was me, and yes they do, according to the officer at LSU.
My *understanding was the only way to avoid having him on this year's class is not to sign him for football until after June. Which would be fine if he had to redshirt anyway. But for now, he would have to enroll on his own dime, which I'm sure isn't very attractive if you have several schools after you.

"It's complicated. But let's look at things from a more general perspective. There are multiple factors that contribute to this number, which is ever-changing; the most relevant being the 85 player scholarship limit, the 25 scholarship per academic year restriction, transfers, players who fail to qualify after signing their letter NLI (National Letter of Intent), early enrollees and grayshirts.

FBS (Division 1A football) allows up to 85 scholarships, or total counters, per program at any given time, making it a constant factor in the number of prospects a school can add to it's roster, annually. At the same time, schools are only allotted up to 25 new scholarships per academic year, called initial counters.

Players who transfer from institutions positively impact the overall (85) player scholarship limitation by opening up a spot. While players who transfer in take up a spot within the overall 85, but only count as initial counters if they transfer in at the beginning of the academic year (as opposed to mid-year). However, an even more direct component of the number of players a school can attain any given year are early enrollees; which, when combined with grayshirting, yield an over-signing work-around."

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

Dandy Don’s Q&A with Blair Napolitano on 25-Signing Cap, Transfers, Walk-ons, and More
Interview with Blair Napolitano, LSU's Assistant Athletic Director for Compliance on 1/21/18

Dandy Don: Do all transfers (graduate transfers and undergraduate transfers) count toward the signing limitation per class?
Napolitano: Yes. Any incoming student enrolling at LSU for the first time – graduate transfer, undergraduate transfers (junior college and four-year) or any high school student – count toward the 25 for that year. For instance, DT Breiden Fehoko, who transferred to LSU from Texas Tech after the 2016 season, counts in the Tigers' 2017 signing class from last February.

'Tight' signing class? LSU coach Ed Orgeron said early recruits 'worked out perfect'
LSU Signing class - 12/27/17

Orgeron confirmed that transfer kicker Cole Tracy is included among the 25 initial counters.
Tracy, a California native who is transferring from Division II Assumption in Massachusetts.
Orgeron hoped to count Tracy in a different signing class, a practice that was common before the NCAA instituted its strict limit of 25 signees.
The SEC office confirmed last week with The Advocate that Tracy is included in the 25.
“The graduate transfer (kicker Cole Tracy) had to count as an initial (counter), but we needed a kicker, needed that spot. Glad we got him,” Orgeron said. “I was trying to get that as a non-initial (counter)."
“We just tried (through the SEC) with the graduate transfer to see if it counted. It did count as an initial (counter),” he continued. “Seth stayed only two days last year, but it did count as an initial (counter). Those are tough deals to swallow, but we have to do it.”

Seth refers to “2017 offensive line signee Seth Stewart, who spent less than a week on campus before leaving”


How years of planning set up Signing Day
Discussion of signing day – 1/31/18

“Blueshirting” is also a tactic to circumvent the 25-per-class limit. If a player wasn’t technically “recruited” by the NCAA’s definition of the term, he can go on scholarship at the start of his freshman year but not be an initial counter until the next year. That practice can work well with scholarship transfers, who are also initial counters and have often generated lots of game film at another school.

 

[UTChicagoV]

So basically it comes down to *when* the transfer happens and is not as simple as it counting against the current class 25 or not.

If the transfer is mid-year (like Gibbs or Solomon), then it does not count against the 25 initial counter limit of the current class and is only against the 85 (this assumes there is room in the prior initial counter class).

If the transfer is at the start of the academic year, it does count against the 25 initial counter limit of the current class and counts against the 85.

Rutgers recruiting frequently asked question: How many scholarships remain?

"Players who transfer from institutions positively impact the overall (85) player scholarship limitation by opening up a spot. While players who transfer in take up a spot within the overall 85, but only count as initial counters if they transfer in at the beginning of the academic year (as opposed to mid-year)."

 

[BigBadVol]

Candy's Ceiling is beating a down UT football team, UT's ceiling is competing for and winning Natty's, THAT's the reality of the two football programs at any point past, present, or future

Well stated.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

So basically it comes down to *when* the transfer happens and is not as simple as it counting against the current class 25 or not.

If the transfer is mid-year (like Gibbs or Solomon), then it does not count against the 25 initial counter limit of the current class and is only against the 85 (this assumes there is room in the prior initial counter class).

If the transfer is at the start of the academic year, it does count against the 25 initial counter limit of the current class and counts against the 85.

Rutgers recruiting frequently asked question: How many scholarships remain?

"Players who transfer from institutions positively impact the overall (85) player scholarship limitation by opening up a spot. While players who transfer in take up a spot within the overall 85, but only count as initial counters if they transfer in at the beginning of the academic year (as opposed to mid-year)."

Mid-year can count against either the current class or the next class but will count somewhere. I.e. Gibbs can count against either 2018-19 or 2019-20 but he will absolutely be an initial counter in one of those two classes.

 

[bignewt]

Transfers counting against a class is f'n stupid if so. ESPECIALLY if they have to sit out a year. It should only be against the 85. Pull your heads out your asses NCAA.

 

[drvenner]

I think Gibbs and Solomon are why we are only signing 23 new, is that right?

 

[bignewt]

I think Gibbs and Solomon are why we are only signing 23 new, is that right?

Apparently its because of Chryst, London and Kennedy I thought.

 

[SweetasSoda]

You can go read the bylaws. They're written in English. Everyone acts like it a big super secret, but it's just because nobody wants to put in the time to read the recruiting section in its entirety. It would probably take all of 15 minutes.

Nah, I'd rather read all the different theories on here. It's way more fun even though I had a few law classes in college and am quite adept with the English language. But thanks for trying to make me feel inadequate for not wanting to discipher the NCAA bylaws as a hobby.

 

[AngryButchJones]

Welcome to the recruiting bylaws forum, folks!

 

[VOLuptuousBOOMS]

I think Gibbs and Solomon are why we are only signing 23 new, is that right?

Apparently its because of Chryst, London and Kennedy I thought.

My understanding is that we had a full 25 for 2018. Kennedy went toward that 2018 total. Chryst, London, and Thompson counted against the 25 for 2019. That put us at 22 spots remaining for 2019. We picked up two initial counters with Antonutti and Brooks, giving us 24. Soloman and Gibbs deduct from 2019, so now we are back at 22. We signed 19, so that leaves us 3 remaining spots. I believe we have the possibility of 4 spots remaining because I think there are some "angles" that could be taken to push Gibbs into 2020. Also have the Anthony Harris Blueshirt possibility as well.

VQ has consistently said 3-4 spots remaining.

 

[bignewt]

My understanding is that we had a full 25 for 2018. Kennedy went toward that 2018 total. Chryst, London, and Thompson counted against the 25 for 2019. That put us at 22 spots remaining for 2019. We picked up two initial counters with Antonutti and Brooks, giving us 24. Soloman and Gibbs deduct from 2019, so now we are back at 22. We signed 19, so that leaves us 3 remaining spots. I believe we have the possibility of 4 spots remaining because I think there are some "angles" that could be taken to push Gibbs into 2020. Also have the Anthony Harris Blueshirt possibility as well.

VQ has consistently said 3-4 spots remaining.

Even though its stupid and sucks, that was a very good explanation.

 

[drvenner]

My understanding is that we had a full 25 for 2018. Kennedy went toward that 2018 total. Chryst, London, and Thompson counted against the 25 for 2019. That put us at 22 spots remaining for 2019. We picked up two initial counters with Antonutti and Brooks, giving us 24. Soloman and Gibbs deduct from 2019, so now we are back at 22. We signed 19, so that leaves us 3 remaining spots. I believe we have the possibility of 4 spots remaining because I think there are some "angles" that could be taken to push Gibbs into 2020. Also have the Anthony Harris Blueshirt possibility as well.

VQ has consistently said 3-4 spots remaining.

Thanks very much. That is a great explanation.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

My understanding is that we had a full 25 for 2018. Kennedy went toward that 2018 total. Chryst, London, and Thompson counted against the 25 for 2019. That put us at 22 spots remaining for 2019. We picked up two initial counters with Antonutti and Brooks, giving us 24. Soloman and Gibbs deduct from 2019, so now we are back at 22. We signed 19, so that leaves us 3 remaining spots. I believe we have the possibility of 4 spots remaining because I think there are some "angles" that could be taken to push Gibbs into 2020. Also have the Anthony Harris Blueshirt possibility as well.

VQ has consistently said 3-4 spots remaining.

Brooks was a class of 16 commit. He wouldn't have been an 18 or 19 initial counter. I've not seen anywhere that says UT gets back an initial counter for him, just a spot in the 85.

 

[VOLuptuousBOOMS]

Brooks was a class of 16 commit. He wouldn't have been an 18 or 19 initial counter. I've not seen anywhere that says UT gets back an initial counter for him, just a spot in the 85.

I know what class Brooks was in.

 

[bignewt]

Brooks was a class of 16 commit. He wouldn't have been an 18 or 19 initial counter. I've not seen anywhere that says UT gets back an initial counter for him, just a spot in the 85.

getting spots back because of medical retirements has nothing to do with what class they came in...otherwise what you would have to have a medical retirement before a kid even plays a game?

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

I know what class Brooks was in.

Not trying to be argumentative. Why do you think that UT gets an initial counter back for him? I just haven't seen that stated anywhere.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

getting spots back because of medical retirements has nothing to do with what class they came in...otherwise what you would have to have a medical retirement before a kid even plays a game?

There's an exception for kids who come in that are medically unable to play which allows the initial counter to be recovered. I haven't seen anything in the rules like that for someone who played. The 85, yes but not the 25.

 

[bignewt]

Not trying to be argumentative. Why do you think that UT gets an initial counter back for him? I just haven't seen that stated anywhere.

Ive heard too they get 2 spots for him and Antonutti. Medicals free up initial counters I guess.

 

[LA Vol]

We only had 22 spots in 2018, due to forward-counting three from 2017. We signed three grad transfers in June 2018 and forward-counted them to 2019. So we only have 22 spots in 2019. We early-signed 19 in Dec, leaving three spots available. We'll sign three players on NSD, with Wright and To'oto'o being top of the list. Any others will be forward-counted to 2020.

 

[VOLuptuousBOOMS]

Not trying to be argumentative. Why do you think that UT gets an initial counter back for him? I just haven't seen that stated anywhere.

Because of the "Medical Retirement". The same reason we get one for Tanner Antonutti. What class the medical retirement was in has no bearing on whether or not we receive his initial counter back. Technically we would be receiving an initial counter from 2016 (Brooks) and 2018 (Antonutti). So one of our signees would be an initial counter in our 2016 class. That is my understanding. I see no by-law that delineates the difference between Antonutti's and Brooks' situations.

 

[LA Vol]

Antonutti and Brooks both participated in team activities before medical retirement, which removes them from the 85 but not the 25.

 

[VOLuptuousBOOMS]

We only had 22 spots in 2018, due to forward-counting three from 2017. We signed three grad transfers in June 2018 and forward-counted them to 2019. So we only have 22 spots in 2019. We early-signed 19 in Dec, leaving three spots available. We'll sign three players on NSD, with Wright and To'oto'o being top of the list. Any others will be forward-counted to 2020.

You neglected both the medical retirements of Brooks and Antonutti and the Solomon and Gibbs transfers. Which I guess you could say they negate each other.

 

[Sleegro]

We only had 22 spots in 2018, due to forward-counting three from 2017. We signed three grad transfers in June 2018 and forward-counted them to 2019. So we only have 22 spots in 2019. We early-signed 19 in Dec, leaving three spots available. We'll sign three players on NSD, with Wright and To'oto'o being top of the list. Any others will be forward-counted to 2020.

I just hope we get a couple of grad transfer backup QBs so we can have the same issue next year.

 

[VOLuptuousBOOMS]

Antonutti and Brooks both participated in team activities before medical retirement, which removes them from the 85 but not the 25.

Using your logic, we only have 22 initial counters for 2019 remaining. We are at 19 signees plus 2 transfers. So you are saying we only have on spot left? When every recruiting site is saying we have 3-4.

I stand by my logic.