Petition to rehire Bruce Pearl

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#2,152
#2,152
Witch Doctor say 30k(almost 2k yesterday!!) and 125 NEW reference articles since yesterday on the wire...momentum.
Keep posting and reposting. Its getting louder.
BBB
Bones never lie.
 
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#2,153
#2,153
vol66 said:
Howdy.
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Howdy backatcha. I posted this a few weeks back and thought it pertained to what LWS was posting....
InVOLuntary said:
I don't think people think of it that UT can't attract a better coach. It has more to do with a lack of confidence that the UT administration can/will get it done. Personally, I have 100% confidence they'll screw up the hire as usual. Many fans look at Pearl as more of a sure thing.

A lot of the fan base views the administration as taking them for granted. The way I view the administration hiring practice is: Hire a marginally successful, up-and-comer from a small mid-major program. As usual the fan base blindly gets behind the new coach by buying tickets, celebrating all those 2 and 3 star recruits as really 4 and 5 star recruits that are diamonds in the rough. Gets a first year pass because of the situation he inherited. Second year team underachieves but still gets a pass because "You can't turn it around in one year". Attendance is still good. Third year sucks equally and the newness has worn off, people start jumping ship. Coach fired. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Occasionally they'll capture lighting in a bottle ie Pearl but most of the time you get Cuonzoed.
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#2,154
#2,154
VolArmy74 said:
They weren't exactly saints back in Mears days either.

I won't disparage either Pearl or Mears, both were excellent coaches. Pearl had more NCAA success and Mears more regular season success while at UT. Both didn't coach here nearly long enough unfortunately.
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I will say the argument can be made either way. I would say had Bernard not broken his hand, we might have cut down the nets under Mears.
 
#2,156
#2,156
bleedingTNorange said:
There were 125 new articles since yesterday that mention the petition?
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Witch Doctor didnt read them all lol. But 123 new(i said 125 my bad) that mention Pearl or Pearl/Tennessee or Pearl Returning or petition(its a great write and he is great subject, and they report as the NUMBER signed). The number of those signed gets in one article, another on the wire reads, he writes or republishes the articles. its was at 4 on wednesday. Its the noise. I know we are on different sides, thats cool, no hate from mine. We all want the best for the Vols, different opinions on the path there thats all..The more noise, the more articles...if theres a loss, more, ..etc.
BBB
Bones never lie.
(my Grandchild is playing in the state Championship today. so Witch Doctor gone for a while)
 
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#2,162
#2,162
SGMVols said:
He said in 2012 that Dooley wouldn't be fired because they couldn't fund the buyout. It's not like he hasn't been wrong before.
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I've been wrong many times..

I have not been told that, it is just my opinion. Based on the financial situation (reserves are now under a million and capital projects are waiting for donations, not just pledges to move forward) just seems we are in position to only go for coaches at that level. Assuming we are looking.

Win today was big. I said 2 games ago Martin coming back was 50-50 and predicated on him winning out and getting into NCAA's. I still think 50-50 on him returning.
 
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#2,163
#2,163
InVOLuntary said:
Howdy backatcha. I posted this a few weeks back and thought it pertained to what LWS was posting....
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I have no problem with you not trusting the administration regarding coaching situations. Traditionally, as you rightly say, they hire an up and comer. Sometimes that works.

No one can look at Coach K's first five years at Army or even his first 3 years at Duke and predict that it would end up as it has. No one.

So, that's one way. The way UT and most places used to do it.

Hiring a proven winner that someone else might be reluctant to hire is another way. That's how, with Grunfeld's input I presume, we got Pearl. How, Louisville ended up back with Petrino.

There's also dropping the giant cash bomb and paying somebody top salary, like Saban to Bama and my own opinion is that's what it would take to get a Marshall, for instance. UK and Calipari, another example.

Or, the perfect storm like Serrano. He really wanted the job. The AD was a mess, so the chances of getting someone else of that stature was going to be impossible. I don't see something like that happening with anyone but Pearl and I agree with those that say it's nearly impossible that he would be rehired. That's just my opinion, based on...well the same stuff everyone else knows.

All that considered, is why I'm for keeping Coach Martin, an opinion that is not popular...and I understand that. I see upside where others see the same ol' thing or worse, Dooley. I think he's a better coach than the results show, and if you look at some records by great coaches, he's not that far off based on his level of experience.

I'm not real interested in trying to persuade anyone to agree with me. I'm certainly interested in what the basketball folks on this board have to say regarding his abilities or lack of the same. It all goes into the noggin and I form an opinion based on everything. The good and the bad.
 
#2,166
#2,166
vol66 said:
I have no problem with you not trusting the administration regarding coaching situations. Traditionally, as you rightly say, they hire an up and comer. Sometimes that works.

No one can look at Coach K's first five years at Army or even his first 3 years at Duke and predict that it would end up as it has. No one.

So, that's one way. The way UT and most places used to do it.

Hiring a proven winner that someone else might be reluctant to hire is another way. That's how, with Grunfeld's input I presume, we got Pearl. How, Louisville ended up back with Petrino.

There's also dropping the giant cash bomb and paying somebody top salary, like Saban to Bama and my own opinion is that's what it would take to get a Marshall, for instance. UK and Calipari, another example.

Or, the perfect storm like Serrano. He really wanted the job. The AD was a mess, so the chances of getting someone else of that stature was going to be impossible. I don't see something like that happening with anyone but Pearl and I agree with those that say it's nearly impossible that he would be rehired. That's just my opinion, based on...well the same stuff everyone else knows.

All that considered, is why I'm for keeping Coach Martin, an opinion that is not popular...and I understand that. I see upside where others see the same ol' thing or worse, Dooley. I think he's a better coach than the results show, and if you look at some records by great coaches, he's not that far off based on his level of experience.

I'm not real interested in trying to persuade anyone to agree with me. I'm certainly interested in what the basketball folks on this board have to say regarding his abilities or lack of the same. It all goes into the noggin and I form an opinion based on everything. The good and the bad.
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This is a different era than when Coach K was introduced at Duke.

Hiring coaches on the cheap typically cost more in the long run because of the buyouts you ultimately end up paying. (See Derek Dooley)

Anyone that is OK with keeping Martin is OK with being on the bubble and a perennial NIT team because that's his ceiling. His coaching is average as is his recruiting. He'll never have as much talent as he's had this year. I personally, right or wrong, have higher expectations. If Cuonzo is retained or if he's replaced with another coach that I have to Google His name to find out who it is, I will be done with UT basketball until the UT administration decides to take it as serious as I do/did.
 
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#2,167
#2,167
InVOLuntary said:
This is a different era than when Coach K was introduced at Duke.

Hiring coaches on the cheap typically cost more in the long run because of the buyouts you ultimately end up paying. (See Derek Dooley)

Anyone that is OK with keeping Martin is OK with being on the bubble and a perennial NIT team because that's his ceiling. His coaching is average as is his recruiting. He'll never have as much talent as he's had this year. I personally, right or wrong, have higher expectations. If Cuonzo is retained or if he's replaced with another coach that I have to Google His name to find out who it is, I will be done with UT basketball until the UT administration decides to take it as serious as I do/did.
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What am I supposed to say to that? I'm not okay with being on the bubble every year, or going to the NIT every year. I've said that countless times to you and others.

The hiring coaches on the cheap/buy out situation may be different, though, I'm not sure anything but the buy out is different...building a program is the same. In my opinion what's changed is how much time a coach gets to have to do the building.

If I understand you, if Coach K had the same record he had at Duke in his first three years, he won 38 games and his second and third year he had losing seasons, no tourneys at all...you'd fire him?

Martin has won 56 games, no losing season and no tourneys. In fact, Coach K's first year at Duke was better than his next two. CK won 11 games in year 3. How do you think Duke fans felt about that?

3 years later Duke would win 37 games, his 6th season at Duke.

I think it's a fair comparison because Duke wasn't some down trodden program CK was taking over, they'd been dancing the previous 3 years and made it to the NCG. Foster left to take a job at USCe and Duke hired an up and comer from Army. It took him until his 4th season to go dancing.

Times may have changed, basketball has changed with one and done and the like, fan expectations are drive thru windows...NOW!...

The time it takes to build a solid program has not changed for the vast majority of teams in college sports. The expectation that it has to be done quicker by the fans has changed, but...If AD's had the same expectations as fans why haven't the lengths of contracts changed? Gotten shorter?

Gregg Marshall, a name I see a lot...He didn't go to the dance at Wichita St. until his 5th season, he had a losing season and a .500 season...Now look at that program...they held up the MVC trophy today.

Martin held that trophy too, and I believe he beat Marshall to get it...I think Martin went 4-4 versus Marshall...I'm sure someone will fact check me on that. :p

Oh, and Marshall has 16 years of HC experience, Martin has six.

Like I said I'm not out to change your, or anyone else's mind, but all this predicting the future BS and black curtain stuff...That's not based on wins and losses...you just don't like Martin, he's not Pearl and you want Pearl because he did it before, so he'll do it again.

It's convenient.

I have no issue with folks wanting some one else. My issue is that we have a team, they are still playing games and it is unfair, in the same way it was for Pearl, for all this stuff to be going on while there are games to be played.
 
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#2,168
#2,168
vol66 said:
What am I supposed to say to that? I'm not okay with being on the bubble every year, or going to the NIT every year. I've said that countless times to you and others.

The hiring coaches on the cheap/buy out situation may be different, though, I'm not sure anything but the buy out is different...building a program is the same. In my opinion what's changed is how much time a coach gets to have to do the building.

If I understand you, if Coach K had the same record he had at Duke in his first three years, he won 38 games and his second and third year he had losing seasons, no tourneys at all...you'd fire him?

Martin has won 56 games, no losing season and no tourneys. In fact, Coach K's first year at Duke was better than his next two, like CCM. CK won 11 games in year 3. How do you think Duke fans felt about that?

3 years later Duke would win 37 games, his 6th season at Duke.

I think it's a fair comparison because Duke wasn't some down trodden program CK was taking over, they'd been dancing the previous 3 years and made it to the NCG. Foster left to take a job at USCe and Duke hired an up and comer from Army. It took him until his 4th season to go dancing.

Times may have changed, basketball has changed with one and done and the like, fan expectations are drive thru windows...NOW!...

The time it takes to build a solid program has not changed for the vast majority of teams in college sports. The expectation that it has to be done quicker by the fans has changed, but...If AD's had the same expectations as fans why haven't the lengths of contracts changed? Gotten shorter?

Gregg Marshall, a name I see a lot...He didn't go to the dance at Wichita St. until his 5th season, he had a losing season and a .500 season...Now look at that program...they held up the MVC trophy today.

Martin held that trophy too, and I believe he beat Marshall to get it...I think Martin went 4-4 versus Marshall...I'm sure someone will fact check me on that. :p

Oh, and Marshall has 16 years of HC experience, Martin has six.

Like I said I'm not out to change you, or anyone else's mind, but all this predicting the future BS and black curtain stuff...That's not based on wins and losses...you just don't like Martin, he's not Pearl and you want Pearl because he did it before, so he'll do it again.

It's convenient.

I have no issue with folks wanting some one else. My issue is that we have a team, they are still playing games and it is unfair, in the same way it was for Pearl for all this stuff to be going on while there are games to be played.
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You can't compare Duke 30 years ago to TN today. You can't compare coach K to Cuonzo. The comparison is laughable.

How long should a coach get? He'll never be a consistent tournament coach. He won't get there next year. Chances not the next either. His recruiting is average at best. He's already proven he can't coach average players up. He's an average coach and if your OK with that that's your prerogative.

As to money. Do the math. 5000 less in ticket sales over all the home games cause that's what your going to get.
 
#2,169
#2,169
InVOLuntary said:
You can't compare Duke 30 years ago to TN today. You can't compare coach K to Cuonzo. The comparison is laughable.

How long should a coach get? He'll never be a consistent tournament coach. He won't get there next year. Chances not the next either. His recruiting is average at best. He's already proven he can't coach average players up. He's an average coach and if your OK with that that's your prerogative.

As to money. Do the math. 5000 less in ticket sales over all the home games cause that's what your going to get.
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I'm glad I provided you with some humor and also provided you with more than one comparison.

You say he's an average coach, I should take your word for that I guess?

He's not an average coach, don't take my word for it, it's your prerogative.

I'll leave the ticket sales to you Nostradamus.

And, it's so old...we have black seats, we don't need the curtains...on TV you can't tell whether anybody is up there or not...please...just that...can folks stop with that one.
 
#2,170
#2,170
vol66 said:
I'm glad I provided you with some humor and also provided you with more than one comparison.

You say he's an average coach, I should take your word for that I guess?

He's not an average coach, don't take my word for it, it's your prerogative.

I'll leave the ticket sales to you Nostradamus.

And, it's so old...we have black seats, we don't need the curtains...on TV you can't tell whether anybody is up there or not...please...just that...can folks stop with that one.
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Since so your so go with facts, name one thinh he's done here that is above average. I'll done one better, name one thing in his entire career he's done that's above average. You're the one that compated him ti Coach K definitely not me. It's your perogative to have expectations that of the bottom dwellers of the SEC, it's mine to demand more. I haven't spent one dime on UT basketball since they fired Pearl and I won't till they produce something other than what we have. You keep slurpin up that running slimy steaming excuse for basketball all you like. As for me being Nostradamus, why don't you look at attendance Pearl's final year and compare it to this year? Why don't you plot Martin's years and see where it's going? It doesn't take much to forcadting to see where things are headed. And for the curtain comment, I'm old but I can tell a section of black empty seats from some black tapestry.
 
#2,174
#2,174
InVOLuntary said:
Since so your so go with facts, name one thinh he's done here that is above average. I'll done one better, name one thing in his entire career he's done that's above average. You're the one that compated him ti Coach K definitely not me. It's your perogative to have expectations that of the bottom dwellers of the SEC, it's mine to demand more. I haven't spent one dime on UT basketball since they fired Pearl and I won't till they produce something other than what we have. You keep slurpin up that running slimy steaming excuse for basketball all you like. As for me being Nostradamus, why don't you look at attendance Pearl's final year and compare it to this year? Why don't you plot Martin's years and see where it's going? It doesn't take much to forcadting to see where things are headed. And for the curtain comment, I'm old but I can tell a section of black empty seats from some black tapestry.
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You seem really upset. It's basketball.

Name one thing? He did the same thing Marshall did today. He got MVC coach of the year award for doing it.

He's beaten Donavon, beaten Calipari and all those one and doners and he's done it with less talent.

He's been in the top half of the league, not the bottom half, and he likely won't finish in the bottom half this year.

You don't have to hang YOUR hat on that, but it was a reasonable question and I have tried to give you a reasonable answer.
 
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