Preemptive Grammys Gay Marriage Thread

#51
#51
Roustabout said:
Absurd. First of all, there is only one race, the human race. Ethnicity is a sacred part of one's being. Sexuality is not. What one chooses to do with their sex organs is ALWAYS a choicem regardless of their proclivities.
The question then becomes, why should the state sanction ANY marriage in the first place? The state is not interested in love, feelings, sex, etc. The state benefits because traditional marriage is the foundation of a strong society. It promotes a proper environment to raise healthy and law abiding citizens. And that is done best with a mother and father.

No fault divorce has done more damage to the institution than many care to realize. And with state endorsed same sex marriage, it will only serve to further erode this institution. Children suffer when traditional marriage suffers. Anything that seeks to dilute how that is defined is only asking for further decay of the foundations of this society.

Yes, some couples never hav children, but this is the exception rather than the rule. The stats more than verify what I'm speaking to here.
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I'm not gay marriage supporter, but the bolded is 100% true and more of a cause of problems than who is getting married.
 
#52
#52
n_huffhines said:
Yeah not defensive at all.
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What ever will I do with myself. A former pastor who didn't get his prayers answered or a loved one died and abandons his faith.

Go stand in a corner huff. My posts have nothing to do with being defensive.
 
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#54
#54
Roustabout said:
Absurd. First of all, there is only one race, the human race. Ethnicity is a sacred part of one's being. Sexuality is not. What one chooses to do with their sex organs is ALWAYS a choicem regardless of their proclivities.
The question then becomes, why should the state sanction ANY marriage in the first place? The state is not interested in love, feelings, sex, etc. The state benefits because traditional marriage is the foundation of a strong society. It promotes a proper environment to raise healthy and law abiding citizens. And that is done best with a mother and father.

No fault divorce has done more damage to the institution than many care to realize. And with state endorsed same sex marriage, it will only serve to further erode this institution. Children suffer when traditional marriage suffers. Anything that seeks to dilute how that is defined is only asking for further decay of the foundations of this society.

Yes, some couples never hav children, but this is the exception rather than the rule. The stats more than verify what I'm speaking to here.
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Meh, lots of children suffer in traditional marriages as well. The issue is good parenting. We deal with plenty of troubled kids who have several adults at home, mom, dad, uncle, grandparents etc, but few of those adults want to accept the responsibility of parenting the kids. We need society to stop arguing about who is allowed to partner and refocus on getting adults to accept their responsibilities to actively raise their kids. I see way too many kids sitting on the front stoop at 11pm, mom and dad sitting next to them smoking and drinking a beer and then the kids struggling to be successful in school the next day. We need neighborhoods to police each other and that message needs to come from societal leaders of all sorts. For some reason we don't want to talk about this issue.
 
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#56
#56
hog88 said:
I'm not gay marriage supporter, but the bolded is 100% true and more of a cause of problems than who is getting married.
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Not simply no fault divorce. It is the fact we, as a society, don't hold commitments and loyalty as being important values any more. Few people will work for the same company for more than 5 years, we move on average every 5-7 years, and change our minds on every little aspect of our lives daily. We don't teach our kids the importance of sticking to a commitment, so it is no wonder divorces are rampant.
 
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#57
#57
YorkVol said:
Not simply no fault divorce. It is the fact we, as a society, don't hold commitments and loyalty as being important values any more. Few people will work for the same company for more than 5 years, we move on average every 5-7 years, and change our minds on every little aspect of our lives daily. We don't teach our kids the importance of sticking to a commitment, so it is no wonder divorces are rampant.
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Agree with all of the above. A person's word means very little today and children are not taught that not following through on their commitments has consequences.

Basically, it's too easy to quit most anything. And I hate quitters.
 
#58
#58
Obsessed said:
What ever will I do with myself. A former pastor who didn't get his prayers answered or a loved one died and abandons his faith.

Go stand in a corner huff. My posts have nothing to do with being defensive.
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Then why do you have a couple of folks (who aren't even on the opposite side of the OP's argumwnts) who think so?

You've whipped out the ad hom's and resorted to the black friend tool.

Dunno what world you're in, but these are all signs of overcompensating defense.
 
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#59
#59
YorkVol said:
Meh, lots of children suffer in traditional marriages as well. The issue is good parenting. We deal with plenty of troubled kids who have several adults at home, mom, dad, uncle, grandparents etc, but few of those adults want to accept the responsibility of parenting the kids. We need society to stop arguing about who is allowed to partner and refocus on getting adults to accept their responsibilities to actively raise their kids. I see way too many kids sitting on the front stoop at 11pm, mom and dad sitting next to them smoking and drinking a beer and then the kids struggling to be successful in school the next day. We need neighborhoods to police each other and that message needs to come from societal leaders of all sorts. For some reason we don't want to talk about this issue.
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Excellent post.

Loving, responsible parents are what children require. I think many people are blind to the fact that actual parental makeup is much less important than the former. I know several gay couples who have adopted children and are fantastic parents because, first and foremost, they wanted those children and were in a position to provide good, loving homes. Those children are thriving today, and that is what is most important.
 
#60
#60
DinkinFlicka said:
Then why do you have a couple of folks (who aren't even on the opposite side of the OP's argumwnts) who think so?

You've whipped out the ad hom's and resorted to the black friend tool.

Dunno what world you're in, but these are all signs of overcompensating defense.
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They are my friends. It is them in which I discuss the world of politics. We compare the way things are "reported" as to what real folks really believe.

Black friend tool? Hey is that not what we have all resorted to? Obama blames his low poll numbers on whites. Every time I have a differing opinion I'm a racist. If I believe in God then I'm a bible thumping anti-gay Christian.
If I have a above average job then in against low income folks. I must hate the poor.

Come on dink. Enough is enough.
 
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#61
#61
Obsessed said:
They are my friends. It is them in which I discuss the world of politics. We compare the way things are "reported" as to what real folks really believe.

Black friend tool? Hey is that not what we have all resorted to? Obama blames his low poll numbers on whites. Every time I have a differing opinion I'm a racist. If I believe in God then I'm a bible thumping anti-gay Christian.
If I have a above average job then in against low income folks. I must hate the poor.

Come on dink. Enough is enough.
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:popcorn:
 
#62
#62
Obsessed said:
What ever will I do with myself. A former pastor who didn't get his prayers answered or a loved one died and abandons his faith.

Go stand in a corner huff. My posts have nothing to do with being defensive.
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Yeah they do:

Obsessed said:
Are you freaking serious?

What a douche. Whitey still keeping you down? The white devil still preaching from that dirty black book. Those damn Christians still keeping you from sitting in front of the bus?
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Obsessed said:
Do these people keep you from moving forward in life? Are they oppressing you?

Serious questions.
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Obsessed said:
Not defensive dink. Just aggravated. The blacks folks that came over yesterday and hung out with me, to help prep a 1200 square foot house I'm giving to a needy family would disagree with the fact that the white man (Christian too) keeps them down or has kept them down. Of course he believes in personal responsibility.
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Nobody called you a racist. Nobody said all Christians are racist. One person said some Christians are racist and you went bananas.
 
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#64
#64
I'll come back when Ob is done mastu---soapboxing about how tough it is being wealthy, white, and religious.

BoooooooooHooooooooo.
 
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#65
#65
Why do they have to have it on TV? What's it have to do with a Grammy? Why do they feel they have to shove the lifestyle down peoples mouth?
 
#66
#66
DinkinFlicka said:
I'll come back when Ob is done mastu---soapboxing about how tough it is being wealthy, white, and religious.

BoooooooooHooooooooo.
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Wealthy white and religious?

You can do better. I'm not wealthy. I can pay my bills. (And apparently a bunch of other peoples bills as well)

I understand you live a care free lifestyle. And I envy you for that. Traveling and seeing the country. Meeting new folks.

I just despise the hypocrisy of the left.
Regulators post just hit me wrong. The stereo type pisses me off, whether directed to me personally or not.
 
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#68
#68
Why not just do this on the Super Bowl..I guess u fools would support that also

Would u fools be OK with the CMA awards promoting straight marriages?
 
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#70
#70
YorkVol said:
Meh, lots of children suffer in traditional marriages as well. The issue is good parenting. We deal with plenty of troubled kids who have several adults at home, mom, dad, uncle, grandparents etc, but few of those adults want to accept the responsibility of parenting the kids. We need society to stop arguing about who is allowed to partner and refocus on getting adults to accept their responsibilities to actively raise their kids. I see way too many kids sitting on the front stoop at 11pm, mom and dad sitting next to them smoking and drinking a beer and then the kids struggling to be successful in school the next day. We need neighborhoods to police each other and that message needs to come from societal leaders of all sorts. For some reason we don't want to talk about this issue.
Click to expand...
Good point, but I think what you fail to consider is that the main culprit in this is that the institution of traditional marriage has already been undermined through various social programs. It actually encourages dead beat dads.

Trust me, I work in inner-city ministry. I doubt many here have the personal experience I do with single parent families and fatherless that is epidemic. You can thank the many social programs that serve only to exacerbate the problem.

Sorry, but I disagree. This is not an either/or approach. It is a both/and. Same sex marriage proponets do not simply ask for a live and let live policy. They seek to hurt any individual, organization or busniess that refuses to celebrate their lifestyle. I've got court cases to back this up. Prior damages to traditional marriage should not be an excuse to allow another. Same sex couples can already unite till death do them part. They also have the same rights everyone else does; to marry someone of the opposite sex. SSM has far reaching implications that go further than simple permission and tolerance. This is an effort to force others to endorse and celebrate their lifestyle.
 
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#71
#71
Burhead said:
Just to watch Macca and Ringo. :hi:
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lol.....I saw Oko last night as I was walking back to my TV and said to my wife, who was watching, Oko has never gotten pass the 60's. She still dresses in black w/those dark glasses & black hat. And still ugly as well.
 
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#72
#72
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
lol.....I saw Oko last night as I was walking back to my TV and said to my wife, who was watching, Oko has never gotten pass the 60's. She still dresses in black w/those dark glasses & black hat. And still ugly as well.
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Yeah. I also saw Sean Ono Lennon next to her and I believe I saw George's son as well. They were probably there because after the Grammys they were filming the CBS special celebrating the Beatles 50th anniversary of their first Ed Sullivan performance.
 
#73
#73
gcbvol said:
Excellent post.

Loving, responsible parents are what children require. I think many people are blind to the fact that actual parental makeup is much less important than the former. I know several gay couples who have adopted children and are fantastic parents because, first and foremost, they wanted those children and were in a position to provide good, loving homes. Those children are thriving today, and that is what is most important.
Click to expand...

I know gay parents as well. And regardless of how 'fantastic' they are, ultimately it hurts a society. The failure of many traidtional families is not a reason to endorse same sex marriage or adoption. It is an erroneous attempt to justify something that is counter-cultural. Sadly, America has done so much damage to traditional marriage, that for many your logic actually makes sense.
 
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#74
#74
Roustabout said:
Good point, but I think what you fail to consider is that the main culprit in this is that the institution of traditional marriage has already been undermined through various social programs. It actually encourages dead beat dads.

Trust me, I work in inner-city ministry. I doubt many here have the personal experience I do with single parent families and fatherless that is epidemic. You can thank the many social programs that serve only to exacerbate the problem.

Sorry, but I disagree. This is not an either/or approach. It is a both/and. Same sex marriage proponets do not simply ask for a live and let live policy. They seek to hurt any individual, organization or busniess that refuses to celebrate their lifestyle. I've got court cases to back this up. Prior damages to traditional marriage should not be an excuse to allow another. Same sex couples can already unite till death do them part. They also have the same rights everyone else does; to marry someone of the opposite sex. SSM has far reaching implications that go further than simple permission and tolerance. This is an effort to force others to endorse and celebrate their lifestyle.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I disagree. This is a civil rights issue in the same vein as interracial marriage. Sexuality is just as innate as race or gender. Also, why in the world would you condone a gay man or woman marrying someone of the opposite sex? Seems like a crappy thing to do to the opposite sex partner - "Let's get married and live a loveless, passionless life together. Yay!" Doesn't seem very Christian to me, but I'm just a heathen so probably don't understand.

I do not support litigation against businesses who do not wish to support gay weddings or whatever. I'm sure there are other businesses that are happy to serve them, so support those and stop the pettiness. I'm with you 100% on this point. Same-sex marriage on the whole, however, does nothing to damage straight marriages or families. That's why the courts continue to strike down same-sex marriage bans - those opposed cannot demonstrate any damage. There is none.
 
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#75
#75
Roustabout said:
Good point, but I think what you fail to consider is that the main culprit in this is that the institution of traditional marriage has already been undermined through various social programs. It actually encourages dead beat dads.

Trust me, I work in inner-city ministry. I doubt many here have the personal experience I do with single parent families and fatherless that is epidemic. You can thank the many social programs that serve only to exacerbate the problem.

Sorry, but I disagree. This is not an either/or approach. It is a both/and. Same sex marriage proponets do not simply ask for a live and let live policy. They seek to hurt any individual, organization or busniess that refuses to celebrate their lifestyle. I've got court cases to back this up. Prior damages to traditional marriage should not be an excuse to allow another. Same sex couples can already unite till death do them part. They also have the same rights everyone else does; to marry someone of the opposite sex. SSM has far reaching implications that go further than simple permission and tolerance. This is an effort to force others to endorse and celebrate their lifestyle.
Click to expand...

Agree with the first part. We live in a small city and my wife works in the city schools in an anti-truancy program. I've taught in those schools and continue to be involved with several programs in the city. If you were to read some of my posting history, you would see that I firmly believe the social welfare system directly contributes to the removal of men out of the family system, especially in the African American community.

On the second part, I've certainly seen many who want to swing the pendulum way to far toward their lifestyle. I consider that an extreme position and regularly engage in dialogue with several people (mostly teachers, go figure) on this issue. My current opinion (it could change with more information) is the majority don't hold this extreme position and don't necessarily want anyone to endorse their lifestyle. They mostly want to be left alone, free to practice their lifestyle without fear of reprisal. Most are very conservative in their outward practice and aren't too demonstrative in public (or no more so than anyone else).

Unfortunately that is all at the individual level. Once there is an organized approach then I think the goals become more extreme. I see this in different racial groups as well as in the LGBT community. For example, in our small city, there is a huge population of bi-racial individuals and families. However, everyone is divided politically along racial lines, forcing people to choose a dominant racial identity that doesn't really reflect their world view. At the group level, things are defined by race, but at the individual level many other factors come in to play. I see the same with the LGBT organizations.

I guess I'm agreeing at one level, but seeing something different played out in individuals and families.
 
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