Let's Talk About Sin

#376
#376
#377
#377
Roustabout said:
OJ, let me show you how this works. Dinkin is correct. Saying the Bible is true because the bible says so, is circular reasoning.

However, i do want to point out that circular reasoning is NOT always fallacious.

I know I live at xyz address, because I live there.

Logical Fallacy: Begging the Question
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Yes, but just because circular reasoning is capable of being correct does NOT mean the 'bible bible' circle is true. There is too much of a faith aspect to logically prove the validity of the Christian bible.

You can logically prove where you live because A) you signed on it, have seen the paperwork and B) are legally proven to rent there and C) the physical proof of you living there.
 
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#378
#378
Vol8188 said:
By being born, right?
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What's odd about this is you and OJ are both off course.
I hope you realize that arguing existence (being born) is the mother of philosophical arguments. For a guy that doesn't want a philosophical discussion, you sure you stumble into it a lot.
 
#380
#380
Roustabout said:
What's odd about this is you and OJ are both off course.
I hope you realize that arguing existence (being born) is the mother of philosophical arguments. For a guy that doesn't want a philosophical discussion, you sure you stumble into it a lot.
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I thought everyone was born a sinner, thus the reason Jesus was born to a virgin?
 
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#382
#382
OJ said:
What do you mean?
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circlearguement.jpg
 
#383
#383
DinkinFlicka said:
I might one day, when proof and faith finally reach an impasse. I'm not against the concept. I just need more than you. I'm not that easy.
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In that case I hope God sends you a special request with proof that will satisfy you. Reminds me of doubting Thomas. He got his proof but even he could have still not believed. Make sure if your demand comes that you will believe and not doubt. A big problem is people don't recognize him when he shows up.
 
#384
#384
DinkinFlicka said:
Yes, but just because circular reasoning is capable of being correct does NOT mean the 'bible bible' circle is true. There is too much of a faith aspect to logically prove the validity of the Christian bible.

You can logically prove where you live because A) you signed on it, have seen the paperwork and B) are legally proven to rent there and C) the physical proof of you living there.
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I understand what you are saying, but there are some strong arguments regarding the Bible's validity. I appreciate the discussion forum, but you likely aren't going to find them in the basement of a sports forum.

And don't worry, I'm not contending that the way OJ presented it was in this manner. I am not in favor of dogmatic positions either way.

We can't even begin to function without faith. We have faith that our senses can accurately communicate reality. We have faith that the laws of nature are uniform and not arbitrary. And this is done for most not even on the conscious level. Remember, the Bible does not advocate blind faith. "Now faith is assurance (confidence/ substance) of hoped for, a conviction (evidence) of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
 
#385
#385
OJ said:
In that case I hope God sends you a special request with proof that will satisfy you. Reminds me of doubting Thomas. He got his proof but even he could have still not believed. Make sure if your demand comes that you will believe and not doubt. A big problem is people don't recognize him when he shows up.
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I've done enough drugs in my short life to tell the difference between a psychedelic manifestation of my emotions in the form of a technicolor jellyfish and a deity, thank you.

I eagerly await.
 
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#387
#387
DinkinFlicka said:
I've done enough drugs in my short life to tell the difference between a psychedelic manifestation of my emotions in the form of a technicolor jellyfish and a deity, thank you.

I eagerly await.
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Gave you a like for that post...I can relate
 
#388
#388
Roustabout said:
Good people go to Hell. Hmm, as a Bible teacher I cannot remember where the Bible states such. Can you help me out here?
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He was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. Three days later our King of kings rose from the dead. I get excided when the grave couldn't hold him. And if the same spirit that raised Christ, if it dwels also in me, I wlll live agan with my Lord forever.:rock:
 
#389
#389
Vol8188 said:
I thought everyone was born a sinner, thus the reason Jesus was born to a virgin?
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Sure, but do you understand the depth of this topic alone? We are talking about imputation, and seminal vs. federal headship. A fiercly debated subject. The Bible says that DEATH (and yes, it is physical death here) spread to all men. (Rom. 5:12) Not Hell spread to all men.
 
#390
#390
Roustabout said:
Good people go to Hell. Hmm, as a Bible teacher I cannot remember where the Bible states such. Can you help me out here?
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A good Muslim or atheist man who lives morally and is a good father and husband, gives to charities etc, go to hell because they haven't embraced Christian god.

Yeah, the Bible pretty much says that good people go to hell.
 
#392
#392
OJ said:
He was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. Three days later our King of kings rose from the dead. I get excided when the grave couldn't hold him. And if the same spirit that raised Christ, if it dwels also in me, I wlll live agan with my Lord forever.:rock:
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Is it a lot like your first bump?
 
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#393
#393
DinkinFlicka said:
Yes, but just because circular reasoning is capable of being correct does NOT mean the 'bible bible' circle is true. There is too much of a faith aspect to logically prove the validity of the Christian bible.

You can logically prove where you live because A) you signed on it, have seen the paperwork and B) are legally proven to rent there and C) the physical proof of you living there.
Click to expand...

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. It's tough to believe in things not seen. Takes a lot of faith at first but when you receive the holy spirit it will lead you. I also think the word of God was written by men that was under the anointing of this spirit and you half to have this spirit to understand and believe.
 
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#395
#395
OJ said:
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. It's tough to believe in things not seen. Takes a lot of faith at first but when you receive the holy spirit it will lead you. I also think the word of God was written by men that was under the anointing of this spirit and you half to have this spirit to understand and believe.
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Dude, it's not by any means a fault of mine that I require more than a notion of faith to buy into it. Don't make the mistake of pinning it down to that.
 
#396
#396
DinkinFlicka said:
I've done enough drugs in my short life to tell the difference between a psychedelic manifestation of my emotions in the form of a technicolor jellyfish and a deity, thank you.

I eagerly await.
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If you are really eager then don't wait.
 
#397
#397
MercyPercy said:
Please use your brain. Is god fair and just? If so, how do you rationalize the fact that good people go to hell if they don't worship god, yet killers and rapists get a free pass if they "convert" in prison?
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It says in the Bible that my thoughts are not His, nor are His mine. The bible says that human thoughts are fallible. Ill let God make his own rules and Ill do my best to follow them. I'm not going to decide whats fair and just for Him. I worry about me and pray for others. Thats all I can do. I think God sees sin as sin. None worse or better than the other.
 
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#398
#398
Vol865 said:
It says in the Bible that my thoughts are not His, nor are His mine. The bible says that human thoughts are fallible. Ill let God make his own rules and Ill do my best to follow them. I'm not going to decide whats fair and just for Him. I worry about me and pray for others. Thats all I can do. I think God sees sin as sin. None worse or better than the other.
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Statements like yours are how people end up flying planes into buildings. "But my said it was fair and just for me to kill them"
 
#399
#399
OJ said:
I see what you are saying.
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And speaking from years of experience, it should shape the way we communicate with non-believers. Do you expect them to understand your experiential faith?

They don't. It can be as real as the hand in front of your face, but that will not convince them. The carnal mind truly is hostile toward God. And like we've already seen, even if the Bible were true, that doesn't mean they would believe it. We are contending with materialistic world views, and that is a major issue. For example, we see someone who is essentially saying that for them to trust Christ, then God and the bible must first comply with their ideology. And when challenged to account for logic and morals in this worldview, they cannot, or will not.
 
#400
#400
Vol865 said:
It says in the Bible that my thoughts are not His, nor are His mine. The bible says that human thoughts are fallible. Ill let God make his own rules and Ill do my best to follow them. I'm not going to decide whats fair and just for Him. I worry about me and pray for others. Thats all I can do. I think God sees sin as sin. None worse or better than the other.
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Which is fitting, since it was written by humans.
 
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