Utah State

#327
#327
TAF said:
You didn't have a problem with the preparation/on-field coaching of the Vandy game? How 'bout South Alabama?
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South Alabama was bad because Worley threw three picks, and Vandy was just an all around bad game. Even the best coaches have those type of games (I.e. Nick Saban).

Now go back to whatever Vandy message board you normally hang out at.
 
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#329
#329
TAF said:
You didn't have a problem with the preparation/on-field coaching of the Vandy game? How 'bout South Alabama?
Click to expand...

The staff won one they shouldn't, and lost one they should have won.

That happens with new staffs, that are new to a university, that have a new group of players.

Wake up.
 
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#330
#330
TAF said:
You didn't have a problem with the preparation/on-field coaching of the Vandy game? How 'bout South Alabama?
Click to expand...

In the vandy game we were playing with our 3rd string QB who made mistakes early, our only real threat at WR went out early with an injury. Both made a impact on the coaching/play calling in that game.

Against south alabama we had three ints which kept the game close.
 
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#331
#331
volfan_89 said:
In the vandy game we were playing with our 3rd string QB who made mistakes early, our only real threat at WR went out early with an injury. Both made a impact on the coaching/play calling in that game.

Against south alabama we had three ints which kept the game close.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. Although I don't agree.

My thoughts are the Florida game was a coaching debacle before the game even started (agreeing with you).

South Alabama included both clock management coaching mistakes as well as defensive call mistakes on the last drive, along with a smattering of other on-field mistakes that kept that game MUCH closer than it ever should have been.

The Vandy game was a pure lack of disciplined coaching, preparation and some REAL bone-head coaching mistakes including being out-coached by Franklin.

THAT would be just some of the MANY reasons that I feel Butch needs a LOT of improvement to ever move the needle with this and future VOL Teams.

And...he didn't have the COJONES to admit his own mistakes...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fNmuOBuKk[/youtube]
 
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#332
#332
sjt18 said:
I know you should be kidding here... but I don't think you are.

Arizona who was beaten by Washington State the week before and slaughtered by ASU the week after... beat Oregon 42-16. Their QB is described as a "dinker and dunker". Their top receiver and two of their top 4 were Freshmen. Their OL was nowhere near as talented as UT's and their D was no faster or more athletic.

Toledo, Indiana, and Arkansas State (with a brand new HC) all played Mizzou better than UT did.

Ga State and Co St both played Bama closer than UT did both statistically and on the scoreboard.

Ark St, Wa St, Ole Miss, MSU, and Ark all gave Auburn a better game than UT did. FAU who wasn't even a good mid-major team held Auburn to fewer rushing yards than UT did. And... Auburn didn't set return records against the other teams on their schedule.


I chose some of the most glaring examples in order to answer your comment at the end. Those teams were no better off than UT was yet they played those opponents better.
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Arizona had a SR QB and also one of the best RB's in the country. 2 of their top 4 WRs were upperclassmen. You should know by now that the transitive property does not work in CFB. Also Arizona is a divisional opponent.

Toledo had a SR QB, SR RB, 2 SR WR's and a JR WR. Indiana had mostly SO and Jr's at the skill positions. That game was at Indiana. Ark St had a Sr QB, Sr RB, and a Sr WR.

Ga State did not score a TD. They also had some Sr's at the skill position. Also McCarron, Yeldon, Drake, Cooper and Norwood did not play the entire second half. Co St did not score a TD on Bama either. Alabama had just came off a tough game against TAMU. You can say that it has no effect but if you have ever played football you would know it does. Again Co St had upperclassmen at the skill positions.

Wa St was the first game of the season for Gus, his offense had not even began to click. They still put up almost 300 yards rushing. Wa St didn't start a true freshman QB and WR's. Ark St was the second game and they still put up over 300 yards rushing. Ole Miss was ranked when they played Auburn and has a better defense than we do. Yet Auburn still put up alomst 300 rushing yards on them. Ole Miss also has JR's and Sr's (other than Treadwell) at the QB, RB and WR spots.

Mississippi St was the third game for Gus and one where their passing game was more effective. They still amassed 459 yards of offense. The only reason FAU held them to less rushing yards than we did was because Marshall got hurt early in the second quarter and never came back. Before the injury he had almost 100 yards rushing in 1 quarter. With him they could have very well ran for 600+ yards. Also FAU did not start a true freshman QB and WR's. Our special teams? I will give you that, they played like crap.

So it seems like your arguments are pretty weak considering no teams you mentioned were in the same position as Tennessee was. A loss is a loss. It really doesn't matter if it was competitive or not. In the end there is no special footnote that says oh this team played really tough for 3 quarters but couldn't pull it out. All it says is that team lost. Yet another fail on your part trying to "constructively" criticize the Vols.
 
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#333
#333
TAF said:
Thanks for your response. Although I don't agree.

My thoughts are the Florida game was a coaching debacle before the game even started (agreeing with you).

South Alabama included both clock management coaching mistakes as well as defensive call mistakes on the last drive, along with a smattering of other on-field mistakes that kept that game MUCH closer than it ever should have been.

The Vandy game was a pure lack of disciplined coaching, preparation and some REAL bone-head coaching mistakes including being out-coached by Franklin.

THAT would be just some of the MANY reasons that I feel Butch needs a LOT of improvement to ever move the needle with this and future VOL Teams.

And...he didn't have the COJONES to admit his own mistakes...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fNmuOBuKk[/youtube]
Click to expand...


Shouldn't you be on a pole...trying to block Penn State's calls to J'Fra?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
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#334
#334
TAF said:
Thanks for your response. Although I don't agree.

My thoughts are the Florida game was a coaching debacle before the game even started (agreeing with you).

South Alabama included both clock management coaching mistakes as well as defensive call mistakes on the last drive, along with a smattering of other on-field mistakes that kept that game MUCH closer than it ever should have been.

The Vandy game was a pure lack of disciplined coaching, preparation and some REAL bone-head coaching mistakes including being out-coached by Franklin.

THAT would be just some of the MANY reasons that I feel Butch needs a LOT of improvement to ever move the needle with this and future VOL Teams.

And...he didn't have the COJONES to admit his own mistakes...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/07fNmuOBuKk[/youtube]
Click to expand...

Nobody gives 2 Shiites what a Vandy puke thinks about our football coach. Move along to a vaginabilt message board where you belong.
 
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#336
#336
Why do people who question the coaches always mention how good our rosters compare and fail to mention guys like Sapp, Brewer, and many more players in the defensive backfield who are not typical D1 players? Who was our second team LT? Who was our walk on te? Who was our walk on safety. People who think this is how a winning program looks are not worth debating. Later redneck(s).
 
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#337
#337
BigOrangeTrain said:
Arizona had a SR QB and also one of the best RB's in the country. 2 of their top 4 WRs were upperclassmen. You should know by now that the transitive property does not work in CFB. Also Arizona is a divisional opponent.

Toledo had a SR QB, SR RB, 2 SR WR's and a JR WR. Indiana had mostly SO and Jr's at the skill positions. That game was at Indiana. Ark St had a Sr QB, Sr RB, and a Sr WR.

Ga State did not score a TD. They also had some Sr's at the skill position. Also McCarron, Yeldon, Drake, Cooper and Norwood did not play the entire second half. Co St did not score a TD on Bama either. Alabama had just came off a tough game against TAMU. You can say that it has no effect but if you have ever played football you would know it does. Again Co St had upperclassmen at the skill positions.

Wa St was the first game of the season for Gus, his offense had not even began to click. They still put up almost 300 yards rushing. Wa St didn't start a true freshman QB and WR's. Ark St was the second game and they still put up over 300 yards rushing. Ole Miss was ranked when they played Auburn and has a better defense than we do. Yet Auburn still put up alomst 300 rushing yards on them. Ole Miss also has JR's and Sr's (other than Treadwell) at the QB, RB and WR spots.

Mississippi St was the third game for Gus and one where their passing game was more effective. They still amassed 459 yards of offense. The only reason FAU held them to less rushing yards than we did was because Marshall got hurt early in the second quarter and never came back. Before the injury he had almost 100 yards rushing in 1 quarter. With him they could have very well ran for 600+ yards. Also FAU did not start a true freshman QB and WR's. Our special teams? I will give you that, they played like crap.

So it seems like your arguments are pretty weak considering no teams you mentioned were in the same position as Tennessee was. A loss is a loss. It really doesn't matter if it was competitive or not. In the end there is no special footnote that says oh this team played really tough for 3 quarters but couldn't pull it out. All it says is that team lost. Yet another fail on your part trying to "constructively" criticize the Vols.
Click to expand...

You have made a fine counter argument for once. I'm not buying because UT was more talented than any of those teams AND we are hoping for a GREAT coaching staff, not an average one,..... But at least you used some facts and decent reasoning. Good job.
 
#338
#338
HOWEVER. A loss is not a loss and especially not when you are rebuilding and looking for credibility. Was UGA "just a loss"? Absolutely NOT. It was a well coached game. Execution was very good. Game plan and strategy were effective.

But if a loss is just a loss... then we can't give any of this credit. UT would have been just as well to have lost by 50, right? Margins DO mean something almost all the time. It could mean a team just had a really off game... but not when it happens 5 times (including the narrow USA win).
 
#339
#339
tim said:
Why do people who question the coaches always mention how good our rosters compare and fail to mention guys like Sapp, Brewer, and many more players in the defensive backfield who are not typical D1 players? Who was our second team LT? Who was our walk on te? Who was our walk on safety. People who think this is how a winning program looks are not worth debating. Later redneck(s).
Click to expand...

Prove those guys aren't D1 worthy players. Sapp probably played better overall than AJ. He was sideline to sideline and was much better in coverage.

All of the starting DB's have the talent to compete in D1.

UT did not need a 2nd team LT.

Ayres was injured early then played sparingly. Injuries did hurt that position though.

The walk on nickel back in fact two of them beat out several scholarship players including some that Jones recruited for playing time.


I don't know of anyone who said this was a great roster so your whole point is built on a false premise. Some of us just have the honesty to say that the coaching was not great either. Doesn't mean it never will be... doesn't mean it was only that... but the coaching was not good much of the time.
 
#340
#340
sjt18 said:
Prove those guys aren't D1 worthy players. Sapp probably played better overall than AJ. He was sideline to sideline and was much better in coverage.

All of the starting DB's have the talent to compete in D1.

UT did not need a 2nd team LT.

Ayres was injured early then played sparingly. Injuries did hurt that position though.

The walk on nickel back in fact two of them beat out several scholarship players including some that Jones recruited for playing time.


I don't know of anyone who said this was a great roster so your whole point is built on a false premise. Some of us just have the honesty to say that the coaching was not great either. Doesn't mean it never will be... doesn't mean it was only that... but the coaching was not good much of the time.
Click to expand...

Gilliam was our 2nd team LT. The players Jones recruited for db were leftovers and walkons some of whom were injured. And YOU were touting this roster as being equal or better than teams we faced/lost to.
 
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#341
#341
tim said:
Gilliam was our 2nd team LT.
Click to expand...
No. He wasn't. He was there on the depth chart but Jones made it clear early in the year that if Tiny was injured James would slide over to LT.
The players Jones recruited for db were leftovers and walkons some of whom were injured.
Click to expand...
This is a confusing statement. Can you be more specific and name who you are talking about?

And YOU were touting this roster as being equal or better than teams we faced/lost to.
Click to expand...

There are two sides to that. You realize that, correct? Go back and look at how many Fr USCe was going to have to rely on on D. They lost all of their LB's and their best DB. They didn't whine about it. They coached their guys up and developed them into a decent D.
 
#342
#342
If we can't beat Utah State at home on opening day , then Butch isn't the coach I think he is
 
#343
#343
I think that CBJ has proven himself in virtually every facet of coaching. He is a top recruiter, marketer and motivator. The only question that he hasn't answered is his game coaching. I hope with his players having time with his system that he will prove to be a very good game day coach. Time will tell.
 
#344
#344
24/7vol said:
I think that CBJ has proven himself in virtually every facet of coaching. He is a top recruiter, marketer and motivator. The only question that he hasn't answered is his game coaching. I hope with his players having time with his system that he will prove to be a very good game day coach. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Except for the first sentence, this is an outstanding post and sums up my opinion as well. I like Jones and have said numerous times here that in some ways he is the ideal HC for UT. Game day coaching though is a big enough factor that you can't say he's proven himself in "virtually every facet of coaching". Game day coaching separates the Richts of the world from the Sabans.

That said, another facet and a huge one is selecting and managing his staff. That's the one place I have the greatest questions. At this point, I am leaning toward the selection of Jancek as a mistake.
 
#346
#346
sjt18 said:
No. He wasn't. He was there on the depth chart but Jones made it clear early in the year that if Tiny was injured James would slide over to LT.
Ok. I stand by the depth chart.


This is a confusing statement. Can you be more specific and name who you are talking about?

Jones ( I think he had a weird calf/circulation injury. Williams the track transfer from MD. The East TN grayshirt Malik, I think....



There are two sides to that. You realize that, correct? Go back and look at how many Fr USCe was going to have to rely on on D. They lost all of their LB's and their best DB. They didn't whine about it. They coached their guys up and developed them into a decent D.
Click to expand...

They were better to start with. Its hard to mold sculptures with playdough.
 
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#348
#348
Yep, I'm beginning to think 2013 was not the bottom for this program. No knock on Butch, but this schedule is murder to a team rebuilding.
 
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