Recruiting Forum: Football Talk IX

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#7,951
#7,951
UF was a good team when we played them. Legitimate top 5 defense.

Their offense, though anemic, was probably still better than ours. I don't think there's any way we win that game, and I'm baffled when people keep referencing it as a missed opportunity.

The only missed opportunity was us not playing them in November.
 
#7,952
#7,952
orangeblood79's post was too long to quote - but the main reason the preseason predictions were off have nothing to do with TN - couch hurt, freshman QB's were worse than many had hoped but in reality no one in the country had MO and AU in the SEC title game

if we had any inkling of how good MO and AU were going to be then noone would have predicted 7-8 wins - 6 wins would have been the most one could have reasonably hoped

that doenst make the preseason prediction of 7 wins unreasonable though - MO had a very mediocre year last year and AU didnt win 1 SEC game so predicting those as tossups was a reasonable thing to do - just didnt quite turn out that way
 
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#7,953
#7,953
It's plenty fair to say the preseason predictions were too high. Mainly because of the schedule being much tougher than we thought.

That isn't the reason we are discussing the subject though.

That reason is Ron is saying that most of those saying the year is a failure also predicted 5 wins. That's not true
 
#7,954
#7,954
BruinVol said:
It's plenty fair to say the preseason predictions were too high. Mainly because of the schedule being much tougher than we thought.

That isn't the reason we are discussing the subject though.

That reason is Ron is saying that most of those saying the year is a failure also predicted 5 wins. That's not true
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gotcha - i likely didnt go far enough back
 
#7,955
#7,955
orangeblood79 said:
Lastly...my issues with his staff are (1) failure to go bowling this year, (2) being out-coached by and losing to Vanderbilt, and (3) whether the identity of this staff is the one that coached versus UGA & SC or the one that coached versus Mizzou, Vandy, and Florida. Those are fair concerns and criticisms.
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I don't think UT was out-coached in this game. In my opinion, both teams looked unprepared in this game, particularly on offense. Both special teams units had problems as well. Both defenses were OK, but it looked more like offensive problems than defensive dominance.

Saying UT was out-coached assumes Vandy was well-coached. That's not what I saw. That's all. :)
 
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#7,956
#7,956
BruinVol said:
It's plenty fair to say the preseason predictions were too high. Mainly because of the schedule being much tougher than we thought.

That isn't the reason we are discussing the subject though.

That reason is Ron is saying that most of those saying the year is a failure also predicted 5 wins. That's not true
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That's fine, but I don't get you throwing the Dobbs argument that "most" predicted a Freshman to be starting by mid-year. The freshman starter UT got was due to injury, not mastery.

I think too many use the word "most" and "everybody" too much. But, hey, most everybody does it so I guess it's OK. :pardon:
 
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#7,959
#7,959
WriterVol said:
That's fine, but I don't get you throwing the Dobbs argument that "most" predicted a Freshman to be starting by mid-year. The freshman starter UT got was due to injury, not mastery.

I think too many use the word "most" and "everybody" too much. But, hey, most everybody does it so I guess it's OK. :pardon:
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The majority of posters predicted at least 6 wins.

That same majority predicted a freshmen would be starting by mid season at QB

There's really no debating those two statements.
 
#7,960
#7,960
Vols4us said:
I don't get the satisfaction with status quo with a 5-7 team (again).

You look at the units that underperformed and analyze how much of it was each unit's level of talent and effort. Then you figure out how much of it was wrong techniques, scheme, and play calls. That's what I expect our coaching staff to be doing as of today for next season along with the recruiting. You look at the other units that performed average or better and figure what needed to be done for them to have been dominating (O-line). Because none of that stuff basically changed throughout the season.

But don't be saying we should be OK with 5-7 and that this coaching staff proved themselves this season. Nope. They are not the best staff in America at this point. Hopefully they will be someday. They will start proving themselves when they sign a great recruiting class in February to be capped with a winning record and bowl next season.
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People on this site constantly mistake someone having a "wait and see" opinion for having a "this staff does no wrong" opinion. I haven't seen anyone saying this actually is the "best staff in America", just reasonable people aren't panicking or making a snap judgement based off this seasons roster.

Just isn't time to make that assessment yet.
 
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#7,961
#7,961
LaagerVol said:
People on this site constantly mistake someone having a "wait and see" opinion for having a "this staff does no wrong" opinion. I haven't seen anyone saying this actually is the "best staff in America", just reasonable people aren't panicking or making a snap judgement based off this seasons roster.

Just isn't time to make that assessment yet.
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Well said. I'm of the wait and see opinion (and I'm very optimistic about what I'm going to see).

But for the record, I thought the Vandy game was a total disaster and almost completely on the coaching staff. Conversely, I thought our coaches distinguished themselves in the UGA, USCe, and Kentucky games (Kentucky because I was certain the team was going to mail that one in, and our coaches got them to play hard and play well).
 
#7,963
#7,963
DaddyChad said:
Honestly IDK what I would do if I was him.
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If I was an athlete in his shoes, I'd leave and never think twice about it. You only have so many chances to make good money in athletics and one injury can end all of it. I never fault a guy for leaving early in any sport, personally.

That said, as a fan, I'd love it if he and A.J. stayed. They are team leaders and would really help us next year, both on and off the field.
 
#7,965
#7,965
As far as what 2013 was for the UT Football program, the results on the field were somewhere between as expected to mildly disappointing. For me it was about as expected (given Mizzou and Auburn blowing up).

For me, the reasons I'm far more giddy than I should be are both off the field:

1) Recruiting has maintained it's white hot run. The kids committing to UT seem to already bought in to the program as a whole rather than just accepting an offer. Its exciting to watch, and even more exciting that it has continued all season.

2) CBJ and the staff doused the APR fire. I'm fairly convinced a lot of people were using that against UT (whether it was true or not, I'm sure it was whispered about to prospects, etc).

Answering those two questions were huge to me. Those were the biggest ones facing UT and answering them in a positive way put UT on much better footing.
 
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#7,966
#7,966
Vols4us said:
I get where you are going with this and do not disagree on the talent gap at all.

However, tell me how Freeze can go to an Ole Miss program playing in the west division and still pull 7 wins plus a bowl the first two years he is there with just as bad talent? Yes - he had a great freshmen recruiting class. But they were true freshmen - how did he get it done? A nobody coach before he arrives without the best staff in America. UT had arguably better talent than them by simply having the supposedly best O-line in the SEC. They had no players or unit that was near the top. They bowl - we don't. Don't say schedule - theirs had aTm and LSU on it to counter some of ours.

I am not wanting this staff to go. I want them to get it done. :hi:
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You're gonna go with the Ole Miss argument?? Here are their 7 wins from 2012 (Freeze's first yr. compared to Butch's first yr. - apples to apples)

-Central Ark.
-UTEP
-Tulane
-Auburn (3-9, 0-8 SEC, horrible last yr)
-Arkansas (4-8, horrible last yr)
-Miss St.
-Pitt (bowl game)

of those games, only Miss St. and maybe Pitt would be considered good wins, not great wins. Our SCjr win this year is a better win. So, if we have their SEC schedule this year we go bowling with a chance to win 7 games just like they did in Freeze's first yr.

Now tell me how Freeze succeeded and Butch failed??
 
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#7,967
#7,967
BruinVol said:
The majority of posters predicted at least 6 wins.

That same majority predicted a freshmen would be starting by mid season at QB

There's really no debating those two statements.
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One majority can look very different from another majority when looking at the same voting body. I'm not sure you can call them the same exact majority.

I will agree that "a majority" predicted five or more wins from my recollection, and that "another majority" predicted a freshman starter (though I'm less certain of this one).

With all that said, I don't even remember why this is important to the original discussion. Clearly, preseason opinions are flawed things at best. Auburn and Missouri prove that.

I think my real problem is one of semantics. Calling it an outright failure is too extreme as some want to say, but that's up to them. I think your foul tip is a decent analogy. With the success in recruiting, I see good, healthy swings coming up.
 
#7,969
#7,969
WriterVol said:
I think my real problem is one of semantics. Calling it an outright failure is too extreme as some want to say, but that's up to them. I think your foul tip is a decent analogy. With the success in recruiting, I see good, healthy swings coming up.
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I can certainly respect that.

As I said earlier basing the season on one overturned play is very possibly unfair.

The further we get from the vandy game the more people will think it isn't fair to judge the entire season on vandy. That's why I used the foul tip analogy(glad you got it)
 
#7,974
#7,974
orangeblood79 said:
This is why putting Bruin on ignore is infantile. He may make mountains out of mole hills and relentlessly fight to prove his point but, these are great points and illustrate why this season was a disappointment.

I recall the VAST majority of posters saying that a season with no bowl game was going to be a failure, before the season started...combined with the thought/prediction that many freshmen would play along the way.

Now people are "getting tired" of posters holding the staff up to the exact same prediction/expectation.

Let's be clear about one thing: the phrases "year one for this staff was a failure" and "let's FAHR THE WHOLE STAFF" are NOT one in the same.

It's called accountability.

It does NOT mean the staff has lost my support.
It does NOT mean that I do not believe they can't, or won't, get it done.
It does NOT mean that I do not take all factors about the season into consideration.

The task of getting this team WAS NOT easy but was it too much to expect this staff and team to improve upon the previous three years???

Would anyone argue that CBJ is a better coach than Dooley? And, that being said, would anyone then dare to say that the expected results MIGHT be better, this year? I don't think that was an unreasonable expectation.

Now that the end of the season is here, and the results are the same as the previous years, it is absolutely FAIR to say that the results are disappointing and that we failed to meet our objective. That is the very definition of failure.

It IS NOT a statement on the staff AS A WHOLE, it's a statement about th SEASON as a whole.



Rationalizing a loss by saying the officials played a role is exactly what Vandy fans used to do when they lost to UT.

They won, no excuses. It doesn't warrant anyone being fired or even put them on the hot seat (no one is saying that, btw) but pretending like it's not a black mark on this staff's tenure, so far, is the type of attitude that many players on the roster had, that absolutely shocked this staff when they took over.

I think that's why we've seen so many of the incoming players be so vocal, they're coming in with same the mindset that used to the status quo on the Hill--at the direction of this staff, Jones specifically.

Lastly...my issues with his staff are (1) failure to go bowling this year, (2) being out-coached by and losing to Vanderbilt, and (3) whether the identity of this staff is the one that coached versus UGA & SC or the one that coached versus Mizzou, Vandy, and Florida. Those are fair concerns and criticisms.

However:

(1) I believe this staff will recruit ELITE prospects and restore the level of talent to a level which could and should compete for SEC titles.

(2) I believe we will have a MUCH clearer understanding of the X's and O's ability of this staff when that talent arrives.

and...

(3) I believe this staff will have four seasons to prove their worth.

Carry on...
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I'm quoting this whole damn thing 'cause I think I think it's worth sharing again.

Pure. Freaking. Genius.
 
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