Ok let's say we concede the fact that

#101
#101
sjt18 said:
Six minimum. However six would not prove this is the right staff. Seven if the team received great coaching. Eight if the team received great coaching and caught a break or two.

I was looking for them to be "competitive" vs everyone except Oregon and Bama... and I did not expect those to be the embarrassments they were.
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So we lose all the offense from last year, bring back the same players on defense and you really expected is to be able to go into Tuscaloosa and Eugene and not get hammered? Coaching makes a difference but ....
 
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#102
#102
sjt18 said:
No. It does not... and that is if you accept the false premises that talent and speed are sufficient issues to explain the coaching failures.

MUCH less talented teams have performed better on D against these same 3 opponents than UT did.
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I love Butch but this is true. Good coaching is supposed to counter act the lack of talent and speed. Or at least thats what I thought.

Apparently good coaches are only good if they have 5 star players everywhere. And to that I say, well, duh.
 
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#103
#103
sjt18 said:
Not sure what those were but I still think he could have gotten someone better than Jancek at $475K.
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I think it had more to do with stability. Think about most quality DC are making that kind of money and are stable in their job. I think that is why Dooley struggled so bad to hire someone after Wilcox left.
 
#104
#104
sjt18 said:
Sorry... but no. Auburn avg's 39 ppg. They scored 55 vs UT. The only team to allow them more rushing yardage is a 2-9 FCS school. They rushed for 120 yds over their avg against UT. The only team to allow them more points was WCU. The next highest point total against an FBS school is 45. WSU, Ark St, FAU, and Arkansas are the immensely TALENTED D's that managed to hold Auburn to fewer points and rushing yards.

Mizzou avg's 470 ypg vs FBS schools. They had 502 yds vs UT behind their back up QB. UT "held" them to 8pts under their season scoring avg... but that was primarily because they chose to run the ball... for about 100 yds more than their season avg. The "powerhouses" of Toledo, Indiana, and Vandy lost by fewer points than UT did. Only Murray St (a 5-6 FCS team) allowed Mizzou more rushing yds. UT allowed them 339 yds... the next highest FBS total was vs Indiana at 280. UK allowed MU more than 100 yds less on the ground than UT and 75 less total O... of course they're "fast" and talented, right?

Bama avg's 39 ppg vs all competition. Scored 45 vs UT. Avg's 446 ypg total O, had 479 vs UT. They scored the same number of points vs Georgia St as they did UT. They scored 48 against UK. That FAST, TALENTED D from Colorado St held Bama to 14 fewer points than UT's D did.
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I do see the point your trying to make but it's hard to compare opponents other games. AU got 14 pts just from the special teams and probably atleast 14-17 more where special teams put the D in a bad position. The way AU ran on us they may have scored anyway but who knows. Football is so much about matchups and UT has shown vulnerability for yrs against spread teams and mobile QB's. Wash St and a few other of those games were very early on when Marshall and the team was still getting acclimated. Unfortunately we caught AU at the worst possible time with them playing as well as anybody. Saban was never gonna run it up on Colo St with his boy McElwayne being there and against some of those easier games they had starters out much earlier than they did against UT. Damn Saban had AJ in there up 42-10 with 7 mins left throwing on 3rd down. On Mizzou I really cant comment, i honestly havent seen many of their games. I really don't knowhy we didnt
play better against Mizzou. We had several chances to get TD's but dropped passes, losing the ball in the lights and turnovers killed drives and scoring chances. Honestly against Mizzou and AU Dobbs has moved the offense pretty well, but either turnovers, False Starts, Holding,dropped passes have been drive killers. I can't count how many times the last 2 games we had drives well into opponents territory and for some reason or another drives were killed. And instead of TD's there was FG's. Just hope we can win the last 2 and get to a bowl.
 
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#105
#105
sjt18 said:
Not sure what those were but I still think he could have gotten someone better than Jancek at $475K.
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$3mil total for assistants, unless he wanted to dip into his personal allowance of $3.1mil to sweeten the pot.
 
#106
#106
sjt18 said:
Who suggested that? No one but those using this VERY dishonest debate tactic that amounts to lying.

Pointing out failures is not the same as asking for someone to be fired. If you do not think the DC has underperformed and has earned suspicion or criticism... then you are ignoring the obvious.

I hope he pulls it together. He might. He wouldn't be the first to start slow and then catch fire. But what we are seeing this year is very, very poor coaching on the D side of the ball. Not sure how someone argues that when UT is LAST in D in the SEC.
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Case in point people were ready to run Chavis out of town, after the 2nd half melt down in florida Peyton's sophmore year , but Chief turned out to pretty good.
 
#107
#107
PanicVol said:
I love Butch but this is true. Good coaching is supposed to counter act the lack of talent and speed. Or at least thats what I thought.

Apparently good coaches are only good if they have 5 star players everywhere. And to that I say, well, duh.
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It's the truth though. The guys that can win with inferior talent are few and far between. At the very least, the coaches that pull it off usually have Seniors at key positions.
 
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#108
#108
titansvolsfaninga said:
Huh? Are you drunk? So it's the EMPLOYEES fault that the equipment is outdated.
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No. Are you stupid or illiterate? It is the employee's fault if they do not run the equipment as well as it can be run. That's not that difficult of a concept to understand. If the old equipment runs 50 UPH effective then 40 uph... is probably what the employee can be expected to give you. If they give you 30... they have underperformed. And it does not matter at all if the new machine will do 100 uph at 75% efficiency...

The employee is maximizing the output, but its still their fault. You are truly a piece of work.
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Jancek isn't coming anywhere close to maximizing output. I'm the piece of work and you think he is? If you truly believe that... you are in a hopeless state of denial. This defense is simply NOT well coached.
 
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#109
#109
jasonvol18 said:
I do see the point your trying to make but it's hard to compare opponents other games. AU got 14 pts just from the special teams and probably atleast 14-17 more where special teams put the D in a bad position. The way AU ran on us they may have scored anyway but who knows. Football is so much about matchups and UT has shown vulnerability for yrs against spread teams and mobile QB's. Wash St and a few other of those games were very early on when Marshall and the team was still getting acclimated. Unfortunately we caught AU at the worst possible time with them playing as well as anybody. Saban was never gonna run it up on Colo St with his boy McElwayne being there and against some of those easier games they had starters out much earlier than they did against UT. Damn Saban had AJ in there up 42-10 with 7 mins left throwing on 3rd down. On Mizzou I really cant comment, i honestly havent seen many of their games. I really don't knowhy we didnt
play better against Mizzou. We had several chances to get TD's but dropped passes, losing the ball in the lights and turnovers killed drives and scoring chances. Honestly against Mizzou and AU Dobbs has moved the offense pretty well, but either turnovers, False Starts, Holding,dropped passes have been drive killers. I can't count how many times the last 2 games we had drives well into opponents territory and for some reason or another drives were killed. And instead of TD's there was FG's. Just hope we can win the last 2 and get to a bowl.
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I thought the offense hurt us as much against MO as they have any game this year. They had chances to put points on the board and help the defense out but did not and that is just the way it goes sometimes.
 
#110
#110
GAVol said:
It's the truth though. The guys that can win with inferior talent are few and far between. At the very least, the coaches that pull it off usually have Seniors at key positions.
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winning above his talent ranking was one of CBJs traits at his other coaching gigs. so far at UT, not yet.
 
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#112
#112
tm3 said:
winning above his talent ranking was one of CBJs traits at his other coaching gigs. so far at UT, not yet.
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To be fair he was not playing the caliber of teams he is now. I think him and his staff have done a good job of recruiting the caliber of player it takes to compete at each respective stop though.
 
#113
#113
GAVol said:
It's the truth though. The guys that can win with inferior talent are few and far between.
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Like Bill Snyder? David Cutcliffe? Mike Leach? Kevin Summerlin? James Franklin? Pat Fitzgerald? Bobby Petrino? Charlie Strong? Bill O'Brien? Gary Patterson? Chris Peterson? Brian Kelly? Should I go on? Oh I forgot Gary Pinkel? Let's not forget him.
 
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#114
#114
GAVol said:
So we lose all the offense from last year, bring back the same players on defense and you really expected is to be able to go into Tuscaloosa and Eugene and not get hammered? Coaching makes a difference but ....
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No. I did not expect UT to give up more points to Oregon than they've allowed to anyone in 100 years... nor did I expect the complete lay down we saw vs Bama. I expected players to be in position, to be well coached, and for the playcalling to look credible.

I expected losses and did not really expect "close" games... especially with Bama. I didn't expect UT to perform no better than an FCS homecoming fodder team.
 
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#117
#117
volfan411 said:
To be fair he was not playing the caliber of teams he is now. I think him and his staff have done a good job of recruiting the caliber of player it takes to compete at each respective stop though.
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Butch's excellent recruiting is the only saving grace from Year 1 under his watch. He and his staff do need to step it up and show that they can coach up players to improve and overachieve. That's all I've been saying. It hasn't happened yet with this staff, but I still haven't given up on it happening either.
 
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#118
#118
jasonvol18 said:
I do see the point your trying to make but it's hard to compare opponents other games.
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If it were only one game then I'm buying that and moving on. When you string 3 together end to end... it becomes almost impossible to reasonably conclude that.

I don't blame the O or Dobbs for the D's performance at MU. They prevented the win... they didn't make the run D horrible.
 
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#119
#119
87Vol said:
Butch's excellent recruiting is the only saving grace from Year 1 under his watch. He and his staff do need to step it up and show that they can coach up players to improve and overachieve. That's all I've been saying. It hasn't happened yet with this staff, but I still haven't given up on it happening either.
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I am not sure I have seen anyone who has. Those trying to avoid any and all criticism of the coaches try to claim otherwise...
 
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#120
#120
PanicVol said:
I love Butch but this is true. Good coaching is supposed to counter act the lack of talent and speed. Or at least thats what I thought.

Apparently good coaches are only good if they have 5 star players everywhere. And to that I say, well, duh.
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Doesn't always work that way. Look at Saban's first year at Ala. They went 7-6. And he had better talent than Jones has. Takes guys buying into what your preaching, weeding out the guys who don't want to change, breaking bad habits that the previous staff allowed to develop. I guarantee if Saban could only win 7 with what he had at Ala his gfirst yesr, thenhe would have been lucky to win 6-7 this year at UT with the schedule and players on D we have.
 
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#121
#121
87Vol said:
Butch's excellent recruiting is the only saving grace from Year 1 under his watch. He and his staff do need to step it up and show that they can coach up players to improve and overachieve. That's all I've been saying. It hasn't happened yet with this staff, but I still haven't given up on it happening either.
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My sentiments exactly.
 
#123
#123
volfan411 said:
I know me and you have been through this but 2 of the 3 LB's are converted safeties and probably should not be playing LB in the SEC but agree with the other 2 groups.
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Chavis was known for making S's> LB's, LB's> DE's, and DE's> DT's in his best years at UT.

Sapp was never going to be anything but a LB.
 
#124
#124
volfan411 said:
I agree but most of them played LB at the high school level. I am not knocking either LB but I think we would have been a better defense with Maggit don't you.
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Maggit has been "hurt" for two years now. That ship has sailed.
 
#125
#125
87Vol said:
Butch's excellent recruiting is the only saving grace from Year 1 under his watch. He and his staff do need to step it up and show that they can coach up players to improve and overachieve. That's all I've been saying. It hasn't happened yet with this staff, but I still haven't given up on it happening either.
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I agree and I have been saying for a few weeks that at least Jancek recruits good athletes and if he fails next year we have a roster full of quality players for the next DC to work with.
 
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