Martin really isn't that bad

#76
#76
bleedingTNorange said:
I agree with all that.

I will say, and no this isn't an excuse, but our gameplan (Martin said as much) was to pound it inside early to Stokes and Maymon. Stokes goes out with foul trouble and it derailed what our gameplan was.

Now that's obviously piss poor coaching if you can't adjust, just sharing what I thought maybe the initial problem was.

100% agree on 2-1, I've always been a big supporter of that and never understood why we don't....Especially having a guy like McRae that seemingly can get into the lane whenever he wants.
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and pounding it inside to Maymon and Stokes early as our guys just stand around and get out of rhythm was a poor plan. We didn't have the size advantage there. We had a speed advantage against their big guys and on the wings. Stokes got it one time away from the basket and drove for an easy dunk. Why not put him on the wing on an iso and let him drive by the big guy or if a double comes, Maymon cutting or a wing cutting to the basket would be easy. Stokes can see the floor and pass. Just not with his back to the basket.
 
#77
#77
You lobbed a softball...

Bruce Pearl @ Tennessee
Year: Record Postseason
2005-06: 22-8 NCAA Second Round
2006-07: 24-11 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2007-08: 31-5 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2008-09: 21-13 NCAA First Round
2009-10: 28-9 NCAA Elite Eight
2010-11: 19-15 NCAA First Round

Overall record: 145-61 (.704)
 
#78
#78
UneducatedGuess said:
You lobbed a softball...

Bruce Pearl @ Tennessee
Year: Record Postseason
2005-06: 22-8 NCAA Second Round
2006-07: 24-11 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2007-08: 31-5 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2008-09: 21-13 NCAA First Round
2009-10: 28-9 NCAA Elite Eight
2010-11: 19-15 NCAA First Round

Overall record: 145-61 (.704)
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You'd have a point if you weren't ignoring his 13 years of coaching experience at USI and UW-M prior to that.
 
#80
#80
Spartacavolus said:
and pounding it inside to Maymon and Stokes early as our guys just stand around and get out of rhythm was a poor plan. We didn't have the size advantage there. We had a speed advantage against their big guys and on the wings. Stokes got it one time away from the basket and drove for an easy dunk. Why not put him on the wing on an iso and let him drive by the big guy or if a double comes, Maymon cutting or a wing cutting to the basket would be easy. Stokes can see the floor and pass. Just not with his back to the basket.
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Oh I agree, I don't think stokes was put in a good spot in that game.
 
#81
#81
cncchris33 said:
You'd have a point if you weren't ignoring his 13 years of coaching experience at USI and UW-M prior to that.
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1992–1993 Southern Indiana 22–7 14–4 2nd NCAA D–II Regional 3rd Place
1993–1994 Southern Indiana 28–4 16–2 1st NCAA D–II Runner-up
1994–1995 Southern Indiana 29–4 15–3 3rd NCAA D–II Champions
1995–1996 Southern Indiana 25–4 18–2 1st NCAA D–II Sweet Sixteen


2002–2003 Milwaukee 24–8 13–3 2nd NCAA First Round
2003–2004 Milwaukee 20–11 13–3 1st NIT First Round
2004–2005 Milwaukee 26–6 14–2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen

There u go lol
 
#83
#83
Martin is the NIT king:

2008–2009 Missouri State 11–20 3–15 10th
2009–2010 Missouri State 24–12 8–10 7th CIT Champions
2010–2011 Missouri State 26–9 15–3 1st NIT Second Round
Missouri State: 61–41 (.598) 26–28 (.481)
Tennessee (Southeastern Conference) (2011–present)
2011–2012 Tennessee 19–15 10–6 T–2nd NIT Second Round
2012–2013 Tennessee 20–13 11–7 T–5th NIT First Round
2013–2014 Tennessee 0–1 0–0

They should start a chant at TBA:

"NIT is the way for me!"

"NIT is the way for me!"

"NIT is the way for me!"

"NIT is the way for me!"

"NIT is the way for me!"
 
#84
#84
cncchris33 said:
You'd have a point if you weren't ignoring his 13 years of coaching experience at USI and UW-M prior to that.
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Pearl won a Div. II National Championship, and was runner up another year. Made the D-II tourney 8 of his 9 years as HC. Pearl had won over 300 freakin games, had a .740 winning percentage, and average over 24 wins a year before he took the UT job. God forbid we ignore that. Also keep in mind that he wasn't eligble for the Div. I NCAA tourney the nine years he was at Southern Indiana, but made it 50% of the time he was at UMW, as well has winning the regular season conference at the same rate.
I'm sorry, what was your point????
 
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#85
#85
volbeast33 said:
1992–1993 Southern Indiana 22–7 14–4 2nd NCAA D–II Regional 3rd Place
1993–1994 Southern Indiana 28–4 16–2 1st NCAA D–II Runner-up
1994–1995 Southern Indiana 29–4 15–3 3rd NCAA D–II Champions
1995–1996 Southern Indiana 25–4 18–2 1st NCAA D–II Sweet Sixteen


2002–2003 Milwaukee 24–8 13–3 2nd NCAA First Round
2003–2004 Milwaukee 20–11 13–3 1st NIT First Round
2004–2005 Milwaukee 26–6 14–2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen

There u go lol
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Neither school was facing the NCAA hammer with a torpedoed recruiting class, but, in fairness, Pearl did a fine job at both places. Neither were on the scale of an SEC job though.

Edit: And to be clear, I wasn't referring to his success at those stops necessarily. More on the experience he gained in 13 years of being a head coach before his time at Tennessee in contrast with Martin's three years of experience.
 
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#86
#86
Roustabout said:
Pearl won a Div. II National Championship, and was runner up another year. Made the D-II tourney 8 of his 9 years as HC. Pearl had won over 300 freakin games, had a .740 winning percentage, and average over 24 wins a year before he took the UT job. God forbid we ignore that. Also keep in mind that he wasn't eligble for the Div. I NCAA tourney the nine years he was at Southern Indiana, but made it 50% of the time he was at UMW, as well has winning the regular season conference at the same rate.
I'm sorry, what was your point????
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The point was that the OP wanted to jump right into his success at Tennessee without regard to the fact that he had 13 years of coaching experience prior to his tenure here.

Martin had three years of experience. That's not his fault. It's Tennessee's fault for hiring an inexperienced coach who is having to cut his teeth in the SEC, and at their expense.

Of course, Tennessee wouldn't have needed to find another coach, if not for...well you know the story.
 
#87
#87
cncchris33 said:
The point was that the OP wanted to jump right into his success at Tennessee without regard to the fact that he had 13 years of coaching experience prior to his tenure here.

Martin had three years of experience. That's not his fault. It's Tennessee's fault for hiring an inexperienced coach who is having to cut his teeth in the SEC, and at their expense.

Of course, Tennessee wouldn't have needed to find another coach, if not for...well you know the story.
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We can fix this next August :salute:
 
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#88
#88
cncchris33 said:
The point was that the OP wanted to jump right into his success at Tennessee without regard to the fact that he had 13 years of coaching experience prior to his tenure here.

Martin had three years of experience. That's not his fault. It's Tennessee's fault for hiring an inexperienced coach who is having to cut his teeth in the SEC, and at their expense.

Of course, Tennessee wouldn't have needed to find another coach, if not for...well you know the story.
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You are on point today.
 
#89
#89
UneducatedGuess said:
We can fix this next August :salute:
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Honest question, would you like to see that happen? I'm not gonna judge if you just want Zo gone, even though that's pretty ridiculous. BUT say Zo does suck this season and he gets canned, do you honestly think that's good for the program? How confident are you that we can land a competent replacement?

If you say anything about hiring Pearl, then I apologize for interrupting your bath salts session.
 
#91
#91
Chris4Vols22 said:
Honest question, would you like to see that happen? I'm not gonna judge if you just want Zo gone, even though that's pretty ridiculous. BUT say Zo does suck this season and he gets canned, do you honestly think that's good for the program? How confident are you that we can land a competent replacement?

If you say anything about hiring Pearl, then I apologize for interrupting your bath salts session.
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To go from a consistent NCAA team to a consistent NIT team shouldn't be acceptable, should it? Basketball programs can be turned around in a short amount of time, right?

I really want to stress that I think Martin is a very smart, very capable coach. I'm just not convinced that he is an appropriate fit at Tennessee. Tennessee has all the tools to be a consistent Top-15 program, we have been in the past, why settle?

Bath salts do smell mighty fine... you have to admit... but let's see how this season goes. I really want to see Stokes and Maymon find that inside 1-2 passing game that was absolutely beautiful 2 years ago.
 
#92
#92
It'd be very tough for us to land a decent coach if we fired Cuonzo after three years. This job isn't going to attract the best of the best to begin with. Most realistic candidates wouldn't feel confident entering a situation in which the previous incumbent was shown the door after being given only three years (relatively successful years at that).

There's a very good chance this program once again becomes a high-major doormat if we fire Cuonzo after three years. If the AD decides to make a move, he better have another Bruce Pearl type waiting in the wings...and there aren't very many of those. Otherwise I have a feeling we're looking at a short-term future of <,= .500 ball.
 
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#93
#93
UneducatedGuess said:
To go from a consistent NCAA team to a consistent NIT team shouldn't be acceptable, should it? Basketball programs can be turned around in a short amount of time, right?

I really want to stress that I think Martin is a very smart, very capable coach. I'm just not convinced that he is an appropriate fit at Tennessee. Tennessee has all the tools to be a consistent Top-15 program, we have been in the past, why settle?

Bath salts do smell mighty fine... you have to admit... but let's see how this season goes. I really want to see Stokes and Maymon find that inside 1-2 passing game that was absolutely beautiful 2 years ago.
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Those are all reasonable things to say, but my point is that we got a home run hire with Pearl. Lightning is not likely to strike the same place twice in such a short time span. Also, if we do can Martin after this season, it's going to be yet another rebuilding year. We would be losing some of our best players, probably our entire recruiting class, and it would give Stokes and Hubbs major incentive to play professionally instead of sticking around. I'm just saying you have to carefully weigh Martin's potential vs. the welfare of the program.

Let's just make one thing clear, this season is not over, and it will have major repercussions for the immediate future of the program. They could be either very good, or very bad. I don't know why anyone would truly want the latter unless they just want to stick it to Martin.
 
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#94
#94
MannyD said:
It'd be very tough for us to land a decent coach if we fired Cuonzo after three years. This job isn't going to attract the best of the best to begin with. Most realistic candidates wouldn't feel confident entering a situation in which the previous incumbent was shown the door after being given only three years (relatively successful years at that).

There's a very good chance this program once again becomes a high-major doormat if we fire Cuonzo after three years. If the AD decides to make a move, he better have another Bruce Pearl type waiting in the wings...and there aren't very many of those. Otherwise I have a feeling we're looking at a short-term future of <,= .500 ball.
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Good points. We fired Jerry Green after four 20-win seasons and four trips to the NCAA tournament. All that got us was Buzz Peterson.

The grass isn't always greener. This university may have all the physical tools to be top-15 annually, but they proved in hiring Pearl and Martin that basketball isnt of high importance, and they tried hiring on the cheap. They aren't opening the checkbook to attract a big name.
 
#95
#95
Chris4Vols22 said:
Those are all reasonable things to say, but my point is that we got a home run hire with Pearl. Lightning is not likely to strike the same place twice in such a short time span. Also, if we do can Martin after this season, it's going to be yet another rebuilding year. We would be losing some of our best players, probably our entire recruiting class, and it would give Stokes and Hubbs major incentive to play professionally instead of sticking around. I'm just saying you have to carefully weigh Martin's potential vs. the welfare of the program.

Let's just make one thing clear, this season is not over, and it will have major repercussions for the immediate future of the program. They could be either very good, or very bad. I don't know why anyone would truly want the latter unless they just want to stick it to Martin.
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Agreed! Support the kids in orange. They put in so much time to make us proud. Same with the staff. I hope we turn that corner! I see it in glimpses
 
#97
#97
walkenvol said:
Why was Green sacked and where did he land at after TN?
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He said something to the effect of "If the fans don't like it, they can go to Walmart" that didn't sit well with the fanbase.

Underachieved in the NCAA tourney. He had some of the best rosters ever assembled at UT. Check the 99-00 roster for an example.

I think he did something with Oregon or Oklahoma. Not sure he ever coached again.
 
#98
#98
cncchris33 said:
but they proved in hiring Pearl and Martin that basketball isnt of high importance, and they tried hiring on the cheap. They aren't opening the checkbook to attract a big name.
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I still don't understand the economics of this decision. With the size of the arena and fan base, the economic swing between a struggling UT team and a highly successful one would more than pay for a $4 million a year coach.
 
#99
#99
walkenvol said:
Why was Green sacked and where did he land at after TN?
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He was canned because the AD apparently thought Tennessee was better than 20+ win seasons and annual NCAA tourney berths.

In all seriousness, even with that success, he underachieved relative to the talent he had (some of the best collection of overall talent in UT history). He also clashed with fans and administration.

I don't think he ever coached again, instead electing to retire and live on the giant buyout we paid him.
 
#100
#100
BigZiti09 said:
He said something to the effect of "If the fans don't like it, they can go to Walmart" that didn't sit well with the fanbase.

Underachieved in the NCAA tourney. He had some of the best rosters ever assembled at UT. Check the 99-00 roster for an example.

I think he did something with Oregon or Oklahoma. Not sure he ever coached again.
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I remember the teams with Harris and Hathaway along with the NCAA tourney exits. Seemed like the regular 20 win seasons would have gotten him more time unless something bad happened behind the scenes.
 
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